Most Law student cant pay off their debt

[kandahari ella]

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Kandahari-Ella,
I agree. It's about naseeb. However, when we speak of opportunities and chances, those who graduate from Ivy-league schools have far better chances in landing secure and comfortable jobs as opposed to Mickey-mouse graduates. It's certainly not fair, but that's life. You can even become the president of the USA if you graduate from an Ivy-league Law-school. As I said before, If anyone has a passion for Law and if it's something you enjoy, go for it. Whether it be a Mickey-mouse institution or Ivy-league, fulfill your dream.

President Obama graduated from a top-Law school in NYC. Lawyers can do a lot with their law-degree. They don't necessarily have to process immigration paperwork.

Yes they do have better opportunities, however those who graduate from the top 20-25 law schools also have those opportunities. Just look into who many people apply for schools like Georgetown, Northwestern, U of Chicago, UCLA, USC, NYU. Those numbers are almost similar to what the Ivy league schools are getting. It just depends on where people want to go. If you have the money and connections then go right ahead into an Ivy league school, go into Columbia law (where Obama went). But if that's not your situation know that schools like U of Chicago ( where Obama taught), Georgetown and other schools exist.

No one said, any attorney had to sit there and process immigration paperwork.

[Laila]

My question is why don't you do that? Why be a Pre-med major instead? I don't want you crying until 4AM when you find out your favorite med school did not accept you.

I cried for a week straight when i could not go to UCLA's medical college :/

You should be preparing for plan B. And quite frankly, Pre-med is not no plan B. Completing a PA program should your plan B and I urge you to begin working on it the minute school starts. It's a win-win situation for you.


I know, I know. I am very biased.

Lala, what i am doing now, is preparing me for both medical school and PA school. Overall they require nearly the same courses for undergrad and healthcare experience. Which i am fullfilling that. Pre-Med has its huge advantages when looking for work in the medical field . The only difference is that you need the MCAT for medical school. I am studying that now, and its quite helpful

[kandahari ella]

Laila, go for your dream. You'll make it Insha'Allah. There are lots of med schools out there, and honestly if you love the profession and that's all you want from life, you can always go to schools outside the US and get your MD there and come for rotations here.

California, and the west coast over all is super competitive when it comes to grad schools, you can also move out to the East Coast and go to school out there. I have a couple really good friends that are finishing up med school. One's at Temple (in Pennsylvania), and Cornell. Its hard work, but you can do it! =)

[Laila]

Laila, go for your dream. You'll make it Insha'Allah. There are lots of med schools out there, and honestly if you love the profession and that's all you want from life, you can always go to schools outside the US and get your MD there and come for rotations here.

California, and the west coast over all is super competitive when it comes to grad schools, you can also move out to the East Coast and go to school out there. I have a couple really good friends that are finishing up med school. One's at Temple (in Pennsylvania), and Cornell. Its hard work, but you can do it! =)

Thank you


I will still be very happy with either one. Afterall, i will still be doing what i am passionate about, helping people

[Catya Sher]

This article originally appeared in the New York Times, and has discouraged
at least one law school applicant that I know.

Rightly so.

[Zarim]

I just cannot understand how anyone can justify such prices for a university as they have in the US. It's simply capitalism at its greatest in America. I attend law school in the Netherlands and I pay around 1600 euros per year and another 600-800 euros for books.

[Catya Sher]

^ It IS a complete rip-off.

They know they can charge so outrageously because people who are kind of insecure feel they need to be able to say they are a lawyer, and are willing to mortgage themselves into lifelong debt for this privilege.

A real lawyer was St Thomas More, I recommend people to study HIS life.

Today most are driven by not a real wish for Justice but a hankering for $$$.

Myself, I sensed something was wrong about the law school curriculum, and deferred my law school admission.
By the following year I realized it was not a wise idea to waste 3 years of my life studying irrelevancies in a pressure cooker environment.
So I told the law school I was not going -- and instead went to Afghanistan, which WAS the need of the hour. Not sitting in law libraries researching
things that will never help anybody.

[Catya Sher]

Here's food for thought in what a friend of mine who DID go the lawyer route
wrote to an aspiring law student who was having conflicts.

Because sincere people realize that God's Law is not reflected often in Western law. There is no space for God to intervene in any way.

Some laws are so patently ridiculous like homosexual 'marriage' for example.

What kind of system would produce THIS?

I want people to think a little bit before they take the leap to go through
the grind of law school. Reflect on what TRUE objectives you may have.
Look a little deeper than what you THINK they are.

She wrote very candidly:

"I do not have the talent or temperment to be a lawyer and it was a mistake to go to law school for me.
It also created more problems for me spiritually because being a lawyer puts one into a combative mode of conflicts, arguing , fighting, being aggressive, always based on one's ego.

It was all wrong. It was what that my mother would have been happy doing and it was work my father was hoping would bring large income to the family.

>>>>I thought it was my choice but I thinking I was just trying to please them when I look back on my decision. <<<<

At the same time my father hoped that it would bring financial peace to the family he always stressed to help the underdog so I became an immigration lawyer helping people but I never made any money at it because I helped asylum cases and my clients easily were able to manipulate me.

Most of their stories were exagerrated to stay in America and I never made any up but after a while it became really sickening to do. I would say maybe 10 percent of the people I helped told me the truth.

I was laid off from my immigration job that I had for three years because the practice was not making enough money and when i went on my own it never made much money.

I helped people but I am not a good business woman and too soft when people have problems. The whole career was wrong for me and I did not know myself when I focussed on doing it.

I just did it because I had very low self esteem and when people heard that I was going to go to law school they acted better to me and this was part of the reason.

I could hide in studying to get into law school and hide myself in law school and in passing the bar.

It was a big mistake unfortunately"

[Admin Khan]

Catya sher, there are many public Law schools that offer pretty cheap and affordable Law programs.

[Zarim]

Catya Sher, you make it sound so useless to study law when it actually isn't. I find law to be one of the most interesting fields out there and one of the most rewarding. Studying useless things in the library? Well you obviously are not a law student. We don't study useless things at all. We study how the government works and how rights are protected. How is that useless?

[Master Khan]

too many people do Law now a days.
I know alot of people that are doing Law lol, just in my town.

[Catya Sher]

Zarim and Suhail,

If you guys are happy, then wonderful.

I am speaking about the many who are subconsciously PUSHED
into the field by perhaps family expectations or
a wish for a particular sort of respectability.
Many may not realize that at the bottom of many layers
of OTHERS" wishes for THEM< they may not actually
have much desire to practice law or use it for another
field.

I was hoping to draw attention to this factor.

Whoever is content, fabulous.

I'm not saying LAW is irrelevant.
I'm saying the lengthy cases one studies during law school
do not have much bearing on what one actually does as a lawyer.

Both my father and grandfather were attornies, so I have always
had a good sense of that.

The case study method seemed to me not worth my valuable time.

I wanted a law degree to go into politics. So for me piling all that
to me excessive knowledge into my head = which would seldom be used again seemed a frightful waste
of my energies at that time when the world beyond the borders of America beckoned much more strongly.

Each person is completely different.

But one commonality among many who are pre-law is a vague sense of what they will actually do with the degree,
and I suspect, a lack of deep
soul-searching to be sure this is the right field for him or her.

That's all I'm suggesting: that the deepest roots of one's wish for a JD
be examined fully. If that's right for you then go full speed ahead.

I cited my friend's story because some elements of it - such as parental pushing and that yearning to be able to impress people - are common to many young people everywhere on the face of the earth who haven't been able to separate themselves out from their family or milieu at this crucial stage of making a choice to pursue law school.

[Zarim]

I agree with you Catya Sher. Law isn't a field that someone should be pushed into. Many of my friends who study law have chosed this field, unfortunetly, becouse of either the pushing of their parents or the social status that they think they will acquire upon graduation. Law, like any other field, is only for those who are genuinely interested in the workings of the legal world.

It is interesting that you bring up the issue of parents pushing their children into "prestigious" fields of study. It's actually quite a big problem within the Afghan community here in the Netherlands.

[Catya Sher]

Thanks, Zarim, for speaking so nicely on this.

I was thinking about this topic all yesterday, because it takes me back to my own rigid belief that I HAD to go into law as a springboard for my anticipated
career as a politician.

I conscientiously prepared for this by acquiring internships with a Superior Court judge, getting jobs at good law firms just to familiarize myself with how they work during two summers in college, having an internship in Washington DC with a respected US Senator, all of which would help with law school admissions as well as provide valuable background for what I ASSUMED would be my career.

But the missing part was: did I ever ask God to check whether this was really right for me to start with ?!!

No. I just THOUGHT it was the right idea. No family ever pressured me in any way or showed interest in my following this path ; but I was SO SURE it was to be my future.

So I recommend too that even IF no one is overtly or subtly pushing one,
to reflect really carefully whether it's truly the right idea.

The article shows all the downsides. But let's say one avoids those problems and acquires a decent job and succeeds at it.

Is it STILL REALLY WHAT THAT PERSON IS MEANT TO DO with his or her life ??

The family problem you mention is almost overwhelming in the sense that
there is such a wish on the part of the parents for the children to have access to
the education or opportunities which they probably did not receive themselves that they PLANT these ideas in their children's minds from young years.

So that the children don't realize where the idea originated and are convinced it's their own idea.

My friend has much the same situation as Afghans in The Netherlands or elsewhere like you explain. Her parents came from Slavic countries and had no education themselves. Barely got near finishing high school - if that.

So they tend to - and this is dangerous on MANY OTHER LEVELS -
LIVE through their children, transferring all their disappointed dreams to their innocent offspring.

Latter don't have a clue about this process until much later in life - too late to change the choice of law school or med school or scientific research.

It may NOT be the right field for many.

I fear too that Afghan women feel an EXTRA ADDED PUSH to prove to the entire world that Afghan women can become the best of professionals and are not held back by their society.

This is where I urge women to think about what it is THEY feel comfortable with.
The Afghan community or other group will NOT be living THEIR life.
THEY will !