Tale of gay woman forced to marry to protect 'honour'

[roadrunner]

they will need a partner and will force someone

Have they forced you?

[Admin Khan]

Roadrunner,
What is your opinion regarding homosexuals? You seem like someone who always has something interesting to say, I want to hear you out.

[Dreamer]

What i dont get with the anti gay ppl and what they themselves cant explain is why wld any1 want 2 choose being gay ... being hated and being an outcast in society... as for their argument that this is the product of western media... ahem ahem ... there have been gay ppl throughout history in all civilisations

[roadrunner]

Roadrunner,
What is your opinion regarding homosexuals? You seem like someone who always has something interesting to say, I want to hear you out.

Anything specific? In religion, Homosexuality is of course seen as a sin in Islam (and other religions). There doesn't appear to be any punishment for it in Islam, but it is a sin to commit homosexual acts. People who commit homosexual acts do fall into different categories. Some are not really gay, but just think they are (a phase if you like). Some are genuine gays. These are the people who I think have been gay all their lives.

For gays to be a problem, they would need to be out harrassing straight men or women. If all they do is have relationships with other gays in their own homes, there's really not a problem at all. They can do what they like. Sometimes they do come onto straight men, but it's occasionally in my experience.

[Admin Khan]

I think a great way to start this dialogue would be are you a Muslim yourself? If yes, what do you think of homosexuals while being a Muslim? Do you think people choose homosexuality with their free will or they are just 'born into it'?

Further more, I think we should note that homosexuality has been present before the inception of many religions.

[roadrunner]

I think a great way to start this dialogue would be are you a Muslim yourself?

Certainly. I consider myself to be one, others do not. It's much like some people consider me to be of one ethnic group, others say I'm not. What others think though would be irrelevant.

If yes, what do you think of homosexuals while being a Muslim?

I honestly don't think about them. If I'm face to face with one and they say they're homosexual I still couldn't care. I've found people saying to me that they are homosexual (they might not be) in order to see my reaction. It doesnt bother me, not because I'm trying to hide something, but because i honestly don't find homosexuals exciting, special, twisted, or worth reacting to differently. It's their life and it doesn't affect mine.

Do you think people choose homosexuality with their free will or they are just 'born into it'?

Both I would say.

Further more, I think we should note that homosexuality has been present before the inception of many religions.

I would say this is true.

[Admin Khan]

Certainly. I consider myself to be one, others do not. It's much like some people consider me to be of one ethnic group, others say I'm not. What others think though would be irrelevant.

Interesting, so since you consider yourself to be a Muslim, do you consider yourself to be a 'practicing Muslim'? What I mean by that is, If the Quran says " posting on PashtunForums is a sin" Wouldn't you as a Muslim, adhere to that law? Similarly, if the Quran says homosexuality is a sin, wouldn't the same rules apply? I have noticed many Muslims who are overly exuberant when it comes to defending homosexuality, but my question is, doesn't that contradict what your religion preaches?

To be more concise, would you agree that homosexuality is a sin? There is a difference between caring and recognizing a sin. I can drink alcohol and admit its a sin, but still say "I don't care".

[roadrunner]

Interesting, so since you consider yourself to be a Muslim, do you consider yourself to be a 'practicing Muslim'? What I mean by that is, If the Quran says " posting on PashtunForums is a sin" Wouldn't you as a Muslim, adhere to that law? Similarly, if the Quran says homosexuality is a sin, wouldn't the same rules apply? I have noticed many Muslims who are overly exuberant when it comes to defending homosexuality, but my question is, doesn't that contradict what your religion preaches?

To be more concise, would you agree that homosexuality is a sin? There is a difference between caring and recognizing a sin. I can drink alcohol and admit its a sin, but still say "I don't care".

It's a sin if I personally did it. Since I'm not the one being homosexual I am not sinning. If others want to sin, it's up to them. I do not care. If the Quran says posting on pashtunforums is a sin, then I might not do it. But this isn't a like comparison. A like comparison would be if the Quran says posting on pashtunforums is a sin except for roadrunner. In which case it's not a sin for me, just as it's not a sin for me to not care what a homosexual does or others that post on pashtunforums.

[Admin Khan]

It's a sin if I personally did it. Since I'm not the one being homosexual I am not sinning. If others want to sin, it's up to them. I do not care. If the Quran says posting on pashtunforums is a sin, then I might not do it. But this isn't a like comparison. A like comparison would be if the Quran says posting on pashtunforums is a sin except for roadrunner. In which case it's not a sin for me, just as it's not a sin for me to not care what a homosexual does or others that post on pashtunforums.

If Islam frowns and considers it a sin, wouldn't it be logical to conclude that defending,praising or embracing it transgresses Islamic moral values? Like I said, when someone claims they are a Muslim, there are certain responsibilities that come along with it. Would you agree? If not, I look forward to your refutation. Lets suppose I am a homosexual, me and you might not have 'beef' simply because I am a homosexual, which is fine, but would agree that I have deviated from basic Islam? I am also interested in discussing homosexuality, I think we should make a distinction within it. How do you differentiate between being born in homosexuality and embracing it with your free will? Which one of these concepts sounds more plausible?

[roadrunner]

If Islam frowns and considers it a sin, wouldn't it be logical to conclude that defending,praising or embracing it transgresses Islamic moral values?

As Islam considers homosexuality a sin, then obviously if I were to embrace homosexuality and become gay, then I would be sinning. Since I am not saying I personally want to become gay, then I am not sinning. So I am not embracing homosexuality.

If I were to praise homosexuality, then I would still not be sinning because I need to physically be homosexual in order to transgress. But I'm not even praising homosexuality. I simply do not care about it, or gays that do it.

If I were to "defend" homosexuality by saying homosexuals should be allowed to do what they want in their own space, it would not be me that is sinning. The freedom to sin is up to the homosexual. So I'm personally not transgressing anything. What would be your claim that I would be transgressing something be based on?

Like I said, when someone claims they are a Muslim, there are certain responsibilities that come along with it. Would you agree? If not, I look forward to your refutation.

Sinning occurs whether you are a Muslim or not. If you do sin, you can still be a Muslim.

Lets suppose I am a homosexual, me and you might not have 'beef' simply because I am a homosexual, which is fine, but would agree that I have deviated from basic Islam?

You would be sinning if you were committing homosexual acts according to Islam.

I am also interested in discussing homosexuality, I think we should make a distinction within it. How do you differentiate between being born in homosexuality and embracing it with your free will? Which one of these concepts sounds more plausible?

Both are plausible and it's likely both occur.

[Admin Khan]

As Islam considers homosexuality a sin, then obviously if I were to embrace homosexuality and become gay, then I would be sinning.

That is precisely the point. If someone claims they are Muslim, accepting homosexuality is a 'no,no'!

Since I am not saying I personally want to become gay, then I am not sinning. So I am not embracing homosexuality.

Great, now if I were to embrace homosexuality, I would not be in compliance with Islamic regulations right?

If I were to praise homosexuality, then I would still not be sinning because I need to physically be homosexual in order to transgress. But I'm not even praising homosexuality. I simply do not care about it, or gays that do it.

But isn't part of being a Muslim, offering wisdom and da'waah to those who are misled or perhaps confused? Isn't it your job, as a Muslim, to preach a homosexual man the truth? Shouldn't you call him, and have a long chat with him at starbucks* on how he has deviated from Islam?

*Any place of your personal preference.

If I were to "defend" homosexuality by saying homosexuals should be allowed to do what they want in their own space, it would not be me that is sinning.

You are right in a sense that, a homosexual can do what he wants in his space, but isn't it wrong for a Muslim to say its okay to be a homosexual? Doesn't that go against basic Islamic values? Isn't it clear that it transgresses Islamic morality?

The freedom to sin is up to the homosexual. So I'm personally not transgressing anything. What would be your claim that I would be transgressing something be based on?

My claim is as follows, If one claims to be a Muslim, he can't sit down and say its okay to be a homosexual. That is a basic contradiction with his Islamic beliefs. Have in mind, we are discussing what we are within the realms of Islam only.

Sinning occurs whether you are a Muslim or not. If you do sin, you can still be a Muslim.

We sin on a daily basis, but not acknowledging the sin, or refuting the sin is where the problem arises. I can be intoxicated 24 hours a day and admit what I am doing is wrong, and many people might leave me alone. However, If I were to argue that It's okay to be drunk in Islam, isn't that where the essential problem arises?

You would be sinning if you were committing homosexual acts according to Islam.

Would I be sinning if I acknowledge that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality?

Both are plausible and it's likely both occur.

The above rebuttal is vague, I would appreciate it if you could further elaborate brother. If one is born into it, doesn't that invalidate the Islamic principle that homosexuality is wrong? If God has made them homosexuals, how can Islam claim its wrong?

[roadrunner]

That is precisely the point. If someone claims they are Muslim, accepting homosexuality is a 'no,no'!

If one accepted it, one would be sinning, Islamically

Great, now if I were to embrace homosexuality, I would not be in compliance with Islamic regulations right?

You would be sinning, Islamically.

But isn't part of being a Muslim, offering wisdom and da'waah to those who are misled or perhaps confused? Isn't it your job, as a Muslim, to preach a homosexual man the truth? Shouldn't you call him, and have a long chat with him at starbucks* on how he have deviated from Islam?

*Any place of your preference

Possibly to those who are willing to listen. But in order for this to work, you would first need to get them to accept Islam (or any religion), and then you can point out that you are sinning. To be honest I wouldn't do anything. People can lead their life how they want and I really couldn't care.

You are right in a sense that, a homosexual can do what he wants in his space, but isn't it wrong for a Muslim to say its okay to be a homosexual?Doesn't that go against basic Islamic values, doesn't that transgress Islamic morality?

But that's not what I'm saying. I said it's a sin, but I don't care if others want to sin, that would be their choice. It would be their freedom of religion if you like.

My claim is as follows, If one claims to be a Muslim, he can't sit down and say its okay to be a homosexual. That is a basic contradiction with his Islamic beliefs. Have in mind, we are discussing what we are within the realms of Islam only.

Sure, I agree. It's a sin to be a homosexual, but i don't care if another person is homosexual since it is their sin.

We sin on a daily basis, but not acknowleding the sin, or refuting the sin is where the problem arises.

I can be intoxicated 24 hours a day and admit what I am doing is wrong, and many would leave me alone. However, If I were to argue that It's okay to be drunk in Islam, isn't that where the essential problem arises?
Would I be sinning if I acknowledge that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality?

You're moving the argument slightly. I said it was a sin in Islam.

The above rebuttal is vague, I would appreciate it if you could further elaborate brother.

Some people are born gay, some just want to try it out or get on better with men than women.

[Admin Khan]

Dear Roadrunner,

Before I respond, I had also added some extra text to my last paragraph to which you haven't yet responded to.

It was, "If one is born into it, doesn't that invalidate the Islamic principle that homosexuality is wrong? If God has made them homosexuals, how can Islam claim its wrong?"

[roadrunner]

Dear Roadrunner,

Before I respond, I had also added some extra text to my last paragraph to which you haven't yet responded to.

It was, "If one is born into it, doesn't that invalidate the Islamic principle that homosexuality is wrong? If God has made them homosexuals, how can Islam claim its wrong?"

Theoretically it could occur after conception, but before birth. So they might not have been made homosexuals by God, if you believe in God, but during pregnancy.

[Admin Khan]

Thank you for your time roadrunner. I know understand your stance. I appreciate the discussion, and I have definitely learned from you, which is the whole purpose of this platform.