Pakistan to probe soldier shooting video

[Talal]

If these men are indeed identified to be as soldiers they should definitely be put on a trial, this goes against everything we have been fighting for and severly undermines the armed effort to dislodge militants from tear areas



The United States has asked Pakistan to investigate a video that appears to show Pakistani soldiers shooting a group of bound and blindfolded men.

The origin of the blurred footage is unknown.

It shows men in army uniforms lining up their civilian captives and opening fire.

The Pakistani army says it is investigating the video but suggests the scene could have been staged by the Taliban for propaganda purposes.

Talat Masood is a retired Pakistani general and he says some aspects look credible.

"The troops seem to be trained and professional," he said.

"They give an impression that they have experience of combat and they are not amateurs.

"The way that the rifles are being fired and the way that they are dropping and the cries of one or two of them who are still alive that gives some sense of reality."

[Talal]

Pakistani military officials have dismissed as fabricated a video purporting to show a firing squad of uniformed soldiers shooting dead young men who were blindfolded and bound.

The video's authenticity cannot be verified, and it is unclear when or where it was filmed.

Human rights groups say they have previously documented extra-judicial killings by Pakistani troops, but they cannot vouch for the video.

The military says it is investigating.

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"No Pakistani Army soldier or officer has been involved in activity of this sort," army spokesman Maj Gen Athar Abbas told the BBC.

US voices concern
The individual who sent it to the BBC said many people in the Swat valley had the clip on their phones.

However journalists in Swat have told the BBC that the first they heard of the video was when it was reported in the New York Times two days ago.

It shows men in military clothing pushing a group of young men one by one through a forest.

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The army has a policy of zero tolerance on issues like this”

Maj Gen Athar Abbas
Pakistani military spokesman
Eventually, six men - all in traditional civilian clothing - are lined up, blindfolded and with their hands tied behind their backs.

At least seven of the men in military clothing then form a line and raise their weapons. After what sounds like a sustained burst of gunfire, the men in civilian clothing then crumple to the forest floor.

In 2009, the Pakistani military mounted an offensive to drive Taliban militants out of the Swat valley.

Human rights organisations have accused them of carrying out extra-judicial killings during this time.

"We have previously documented executions in Swat that are similar to what is depicted in this video," Ali Dayan Hasan, representative of Human Rights Watch in Pakistan told the BBC.

"Human Rights Watch cannot say anything about the authenticity of the video."

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To date, there has been no action to hold military personnel accountable for well-documented abuses”

Ali Dayan Hasan
Human Rights Watch Pakistan
The US State Department says it has raised the issue with the Pakistani government.

Spokesperson PJ Crowley said the US took allegations of human rights violations" very seriously", and that the issue of extrajudicial killings had been a part of an "ongoing conversation" with Pakistan.

'Zero tolerance'
Pakistan has promised to take action if the video - which has also been circulating on YouTube - is authenticated.

"The army has a policy of zero tolerance on issues like this," Maj Gen Abbas said. "At this stage I can't comment about what action might be taken" if the video is real, he added.

Another military spokesman, Brigadier Syed Azmat Ali, said the video "could have been staged in five minutes".

Army uniforms are widely available in local markets, he said.

But Human Rights Watch has called for a full investigation.

"We have had such formulaic responses," Mr Hasan said. "But to date, there has been no action to hold military personnel accountable for well-documented abuses in counter-terrorism operations."

[Talal]

Like I have said so far there is no proof the authenticity of these videos neither by 'human rights' nor by the media..Few 'unnamed' officials and retired general have voiced the opinion that it 'appears' to be credible..To me that's not enough of a proof, a full investigation must be carried out and is being carried out

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Talal and everyone else hiding behind this "authenticity" pillar, what exactly do you mean?

- The video is not authentic and is, therefore, a staged drama?

- It was made with computers inside the Pentagon and the basement under the Knesset?

- Is the video from Kashmir or Sri Lanka?

In any case, prove your point and please be more specific. Why do you say that the video is fake? Did you see the shots fired at the corpses and how the corpses moved?

Secondly, have you ever seen Pakistani acting (top Lollywood and Indus TV drama-serials)? It's pathetic. The special effects are laughable at best. Do you think that a bunch of amateurs can fake something like this:

YouTube - Pak Army torturing men in swat (apparently new video of torture and murder in Swat).

"It's not authentic" is just a phrase to hide behind. It doesn't mean anything. The evidence is before you. Punjabis rounding up and killing Pashtuns. "It's not authentic". Cowards. Hypocrites.

At least be a man and take the average Pakistani's stance that on this - that they are Taliban and they deserve nothing less.

[Master Khan]

I hate it when these pakis came up and said "its Fake"!!, so annoying.
just admit it and face the fact that this goverment and army are bunch of pigs and are zalim people.

[Wrayun]

Talal and everyone else hiding behind this "authenticity" pillar, what exactly do you mean?

- The video is not authentic and is, therefore, a staged drama?

- It was made with computers inside the Pentagon and the basement under the Knesset?

- Is the video from Kashmir or Sri Lanka?

In any case, prove your point and please be more specific. Why do you say that the video is fake? Did you see the shots fired at the corpses and how the corpses moved?

Secondly, have you ever seen Pakistani acting (top Lollywood and Indus TV drama-serials)? It's pathetic. The special effects are laughable at best. Do you think that a bunch of amateurs can fake something like this:

YouTube - Pak Army torturing men in swat (apparently new video of torture and murder in Swat).

"It's not authentic" is just a phrase to hide behind. It doesn't mean anything. The evidence is before you. Punjabis rounding up and killing Pashtuns. "It's not authentic". Cowards. Hypocrites.

At least be a man and take the average Pakistani's stance that on this - that they are Taliban and they deserve nothing less.

The interesting thing is that these Punjaabis were invited by secular Pukhtoon nationalists to defend secularism. These men were probably those Islamic "terrorists" carrying out daily beheadings on the bloody chowk. As far as I remember Punjaabis didnt want to enter these areas, for which many people criticized them.

[Talal]

Talal and everyone else hiding behind this "authenticity" pillar, what exactly do you mean?

- The video is not authentic and is, therefore, a staged drama?

- It was made with computers inside the Pentagon and the basement under the Knesset?

- Is the video from Kashmir or Sri Lanka?

In any case, prove your point and please be more specific. Why do you say that the video is fake? Did you see the shots fired at the corpses and how the corpses moved?

Secondly, have you ever seen Pakistani acting (top Lollywood and Indus TV drama-serials)? It's pathetic. The special effects are laughable at best. Do you think that a bunch of amateurs can fake something like this:

"It's not authentic" is just a phrase to hide behind. It doesn't mean anything. The evidence is before you. Punjabis rounding up and killing Pashtuns. "It's not authentic". Cowards. Hypocrites.

At least be a man and take the average Pakistani's stance that on this - that they are Taliban and they deserve nothing less.

No im not hiding behind "authenticity" even a killer is given a chance to present his/her case..how can then you just assume this was Pakistan Army especially when an equally good argument can be made that it could be Taliban...The guy who attacked GHQ Islamabad was a SSG Commando, so what evidence do you have to disprove the fact that these people who shot them aren't taliban dressed up as Pakistani soldiers ?

We dont have any evidence either to convict the army or the taliban, if an investigation is carried out and these people can be identified then we have a verdict

And FYI it was the Frontier Corps stationed in Swat during this operation, i dont think there is a single person here who is able to look at this in a neutral way..all of you want to paint in a Punjabi vs Pashtun color and chuck random insults at anyone (or rather at the only one) who doesnt share your point of view.

[Wrayun]

Talal, they are not Talibs. Stop beating that drum. You can't defend the indefensible. Some of us heard the stories of army revenge against Talib families in the past but this is evidence. Many Talibs were told if they don't give themselves up their families will pay for all the killed "jawans" of Pak army.

[Talal]

^ I am not beating any drums wrayun, im just stating my point of view..you may disagree with it or agree with it,t that doesnt make it any more right or wrong than your point of view cuz we both dont have any credible evidence to back up our claims.

[abubaker]

di pakistan ghwa langa da, laka di amreekayano harwakth si beguna au wagni waye talib da.

da ka talib na wai no sa ba mu kawal

[Talal]

There is not point of going back and forth. Pakistan Army has tortured us Pashtuns and we have proof for it. If it was fake they would have immediately said its fake due to this and that but first they said its fake now they said they are investigating. They just are using an old media tactic which is waiting till the issue dies out.

they are still saying its fake and they have never reiterated from their stance..Even when these videos came out they never said they wouldn't investigate them.

And like i said these soldiers belong to the Frontier Corps which are all pashtun soldiers so there ya go

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

No im not hiding behind "authenticity" even a killer is given a chance to present his/her case..how can then you just assume this was Pakistan Army especially when an equally good argument can be made that it could be Taliban...The guy who attacked GHQ Islamabad was a SSG Commando, so what evidence do you have to disprove the fact that these people who shot them aren't taliban dressed up as Pakistani soldiers ?

We dont have any evidence either to convict the army or the taliban, if an investigation is carried out and these people can be identified then we have a verdict

And FYI it was the Frontier Corps stationed in Swat during this operation, i dont think there is a single person here who is able to look at this in a neutral way..all of you want to paint in a Punjabi vs Pashtun color and chuck random insults at anyone (or rather at the only one) who doesnt share your point of view.

You didn't answer my question. How is the video fake?

Are you saying a bunch of Taliban dressed up as Pakistani soldiers and killed these guys? They were clearly dead. The confirmation shots prove that.

So that is your best defense? The Taliban made this video? And the men being killed are actually not being killed. Just wondering, do you actually believe your own lies?

The interesting thing is that these Punjaabis were invited by secular Pukhtoon nationalists to defend secularism. These men were probably those Islamic "terrorists" carrying out daily beheadings on the bloody chowk. As far as I remember Punjaabis didnt want to enter these areas, for which many people criticized them.

I'd trace the problem back to the 1970s but that's another debate altogether. A few days ago, an ANP spokesperson that that the army was from the same soil as him and viceversa and that made me sick to my stomach. ANP is being slaughtered by the Taliban as well as elements within the establishment's control.

they are still saying its fake and they have never reiterated from their stance..Even when these videos came out they never said they wouldn't investigate them.

And like i said these soldiers belong to the Frontier Corps which are all pashtun soldiers so there ya go

What about the video on page one showing old men being tortured? The guy with the camera is clearly Punjabi. His comrades are all Punjabi. You can tell by their appearances and accents.

More importantly, the FC militia's uniforms differ vastly from those of the regular corps. The uniforms in all those pictures are regular army outfits. Even if they are FC, they come under the same hierarchical leadership as any other corps.

[Toramana]

Mr Talal Singh, this shamefull denial is painting some more dark on the already dark faces of your Punjabi kin whom you want to defend no matter at what moral cost.

Instead of repeating the word fake like a parrot, would you tell us on what ground do you say it is fake? I mean you should point us features in the scence that support your assertion? Are you an expert in scence analysis, voice recognition, or discourse matching, or what? How did you arrive at your conclusion it is fake?

Say something concrete. Don't pour out the Hera Mandi style toilet khana arguments of yours typical of you Punjabi people. We know how in the past you've been lying about other things but had to eat your own **** when pressed or pressured. Remember, Kargil, Nuclear proliferation, Operation Gibraltor, etc.

[Talal]

You didn't answer my question. How is the video fake?

Are you saying a bunch of Taliban dressed up as Pakistani soldiers and killed these guys? They were clearly dead. The confirmation shots prove that.

So that is your best defense? The Taliban made this video? And the men being killed are actually not being killed. Just wondering, do you actually believe your own lies?

I did answer, your just not willing to accept the fact that they can easily be taliban dressed up as Armed soldiers..ISI uses informant in heavy numbers in these areas maybe these kids were informants, maybe the taliban caught them looking at cartoons or something ..Point being you cant prove anything from this video, only speculate

More importantly, the FC militia's uniforms differ vastly from those of the regular corps. The uniforms in all those pictures are regular army outfits. Even if they are FC, they come under the same hierarchical leadership as any other corps.

tidbit ~ military uniforms aren't given based on regiment, rather they are allocated based on where the troops are deployed to match the terrain and surroundings

[Toramana]

How can the wide availability of military uniform prove they were Taleban imposters? And any person with a common sense can comprehend uniform is not the only indicator of the identity of those criminals killing innocent Pashtun civilians and that the whole setting and the scene amply points to the Punjabi Army men as the perpetrators.

Few pointers are; all the shooters are Punjabis in military uniform, all are young as soldiers usually are, all have physique typical of military men, all speak Punjabi, all do military style of intercourse with each other in a typical super-ordinate sub-ordinate manner of decoroum, all are carrying G-3 guns,(which is the offiicial gun of Paki military) etc; all the victims are Pashtuns dressed in Shalwar Kamis, etc. The place and the historical context are also the same.

One should also study carefully what happens after the victims are hit....

Rest, they were informers, Mr Talal whom do you want to fool...What informant role can Punjabis play in a hard-core Pashtun area...? Are you in your senses or has your mind gone wild due to overdose of lassi and spice?