In Crisis-Ravaged Pakistan, The Generals Are Waiting In The Wings

[Saeed Khan]

Saeed, its perfectly fine to be proud of your Army. But whenever that pride feeds expectation of country-management, that's where things begin to go horribly wrong.

Dont get me wrong, from what I have read and known PA is a very professional institution and probably the best. But governance is not its job. It should stay completely away from political interference. Even the PLA in China moved away into a strictly military role and left the political governance to the Politburo once the revolution was over. To quote you an other example, in India, recently there was a demand to introduce the Army into anti-Naxal operations. But MoD refused since Army shouldnt tackle internal threats.

And I too think that Pakistan can come out this hour of crisis. It has faced similar situation before for. eg. '71.

Yea, we proud of our world's 7th largest nuclear equipped Army. Dont worry for that, we will come over at this with more resilience. Now we are going on a right track and China has been given full access to Gilgit-Baltistan to expand Karakoram highway and pave the rout to link its Province all the way south to the strategic Pakistani Naval port of Gwadar, trucking supplies from China to Indian ocean port will be a matter of 48 hours. Secret tunnels are being dug to facilitate China’s gas pipeline projects. Relations will expand more and economies will see boom.

[Saeed Khan]

Its not their job to do so. The whole point of the civilian government is to run the state for better or worse. If institutions can't be respected there is no point in having them. Also, the army were the ones who caused the major problems. Look at Pakistan's history from the first coup to the last. And look at each and every regime...tell me if they havent bungled everything. Hec they even failed in doing their primary job, they started and lost 65, 71, and 99.

Its your perspective, keep it with you and now m not in mood to repeat again n again.... already late to sleep... C ya later

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Its your perspective, keep it with you and now m not in mood to repeat again n again.... already late to sleep... C ya later

This isn't perspective...these are basic facts about the country you are supporting. If you can't even substantiate this view, how are you defending it?

[KhalsaWarrior]

Yea, we proud of our world's 7th largest nuclear equipped Army. Dont worry for that, we will come over at this with more resilience. Now we are going on a right track and China has been given full access to Gilgit-Baltistan to expand Karakoram highway and pave the rout to link its Province all the way south to the strategic Pakistani Naval port of Gwadar, trucking supplies from China to Indian ocean port will be a matter of 48 hours. Secret tunnels are being dug to facilitate China’s gas pipeline projects. Relations will expand more and economies will see boom.

I get a tinge of hostility from your post. Maybe, because I am an Indian. Doesnt matter. I made my point and you made yours.

[Shehbaz Khan]

Let me put my point of view about all this once and for all..

Army is the only well-organised Institution of Pakistan highly respectable by a common Pakistani
Second thing is that the extension of Gen. Ashfaq Kayani has nothing to do with it .. Infact this extension is gonna give more strength to the political govt .. As I said it earlier Gen Kayani is in no mood to take over the govt.

Now all we need is the sincere political leadership

I am not saying that all those belonging to Army are angels .. I am just saying that Army is our pride and it will always be and I hope that Army won't interfer in the politics further and only than we will be having a stable Pakistan .. (The proof that army don't want to interfer is that Kayani could have walked into the President House when the CJ issue was at it's peak)


Manana

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Let me put my point of view about all this once and for all..

Army is the only well-organised Institution of Pakistan highly respectable by a common Pakistani
Second thing is that the extension of Gen. Ashfaq Kayani has nothing to do with it .. Infact this extension is gonna give more strength to the political govt .. As I said it earlier Gen Kayani is in no mood to take over the govt.

Now all we need is the sincere political leadership

I am not saying that all those belonging to Army are angels .. I am just saying that Army is our pride and it will always be and I hope that Army won't interfer in the politics further and only than we will be having a stable Pakistan .. (The proof that army don't want to interfer is that Kayani could have walked into the President House when the CJ issue was at it's peak)


Manana

You are defending by ignoring their sins. What pride? They and their intelligence institutions ruined Malakand Division and FATA. Their damage to those areas are beyond comprehension. They have ruined Balochistan to the point that it will probably walk away from Pakistan....what is worse is that brute force is justified in that area. And if you really believe this that the extension is going to strengthen political institutions then I really do see the downward spiral of the state you are defending. If this is your state's pride then what are the shameful events? 71 isn't shameful? 99 isn't? Operation Gibralter isn't? lol

I keep on hearing the same things over and over, but people always overlook their major failures.

[Shehbaz Khan]

Don't get hyper .. You say that they ruined Malakand and FATA? How :s Can you please elaborate !!

Let's take Malakand: The TTP guys went in there to work for Shariaah I don't know which Shariaah was allowing them to destroy schools and all that .. Now The political govt (And I give them due credit for that) went in Talked to the millitants .. Than later the millitants didn't fulfill their promise and hence the CIVIL GOVT called ARMY to take action against the TTP. When Army took action the TTP is now gone for good .. Yes in a war our assets are destroyed but that's just a minor issue and that's why after that the people of Swat celebrated the victory

Ahh.. 71: To say that ONLY Army was responsible totally wrong
99: Musharraf Take over again the PM was wrong that time
Opreration Gibralter :s I don't have any idea of this Operation so I can't say anything

[PFgulalai]

I already told you that due to the power Hungry Generals we are into this problem but all the time it was due to the normal civil servants who welcomed Army ..
Ok Tell me personally do you think If Zia-Ul-Haq would have not got the political support Nu it would have been possible for him to be in power for so long ?
And How about Musharraf? Imagine Was it possible for Musharraf to rule Pakistan for so many years without PML-Q and MQM :s
No It's the fault fo the political people

The Pakistani General fancy boots can crush any political party in Pakistan just as they crush their bloody civilians.The Pakistani Army is a powerful State within No-State. PML-Q was the brainchild of Musharraf and so is MQM.Democracy has been declared Haraam by the Pakistani Army since the inception of this "Islam ka qila".

[Shehbaz Khan]

I've not only said this in Swat but heard it from people all of them were praising Pak Army for their action against TTP. Though in the actions against the TTP in Swat and Waziristan many innocents are killed, I agree and I condemn that too but as a whole Army was praised over there .. I'd visited Swat even when the people were displaced I was there in the IDP's camps and even this year in June ..

Yeah But ISI will never do anything which will not be in the favor of Pakistan as a whole I believe

My name always ended up with Khan and no I never faced this problem .. Now you talking about this issue which yes many Pakhtuns in particular and Muslims as a whole are facing and it is because we are painted so .. Pakhtuns join Army because they are patriotic .. My whole family is an example even I tried my luck but was never selected .. I am in Karachi living a luxurious life compared to many people of my country but yes I've not my eyes closed and my ears are not occupied by a set of headphones playing english songs .. I am living in the society and I've my views


My Politics don't care about me on the upper level .. Yes I agree but not all of them .. There are many who care about me =) And when a system will stop caring about me I will try changing that system !!

[Saeed Khan]

Today i heard Mr. Afrasiyab Khattak from ANP in Capital Talk, was suggesting Army's operation in FATA and was praising the role of Army in South Waziristan and Swat..

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Don't get hyper .. You say that they ruined Malakand and FATA? How :s Can you please elaborate !!

Let's take Malakand: The TTP guys went in there to work for Shariaah I don't know which Shariaah was allowing them to destroy schools and all that .. Now The political govt (And I give them due credit for that) went in Talked to the millitants .. Than later the millitants didn't fulfill their promise and hence the CIVIL GOVT called ARMY to take action against the TTP. When Army took action the TTP is now gone for good .. Yes in a war our assets are destroyed but that's just a minor issue and that's why after that the people of Swat celebrated the victory

Ahh.. 71: To say that ONLY Army was responsible totally wrong
99: Musharraf Take over again the PM was wrong that time
Opreration Gibralter :s I don't have any idea of this Operation so I can't say anything

Now you have a very simple view of what happened in Malakand lolzz. Let me make it very short and simple for you, even Wali e Swat blames the Army for the mess there. Everyone and their kids there now it was a straight up "lobaa" of the army and intelligence.

71 was primarily their fault in terms of military, politically they share part of the fault...however those 90,000 khakis surrendering lolz? Oh the operation searchlight they carried out....come on no civilian government in Pakistan can even come close to matching that. Operation Gibralter was the operation that started the 65 war. Sherbaz now I know why you say these things :-P. Most people don't join the army because of that certainly not due to patriotism (agha wrazae da muft jangoona larrae)....it is due to the lack of any economy in FATA and the easiest way in Pakistan for social mobility is army. Pashtuns are only 13.5-14% of the army. About your ISI comment, I don't know whether to luagh or cry....I guess I just saw Stockholm syndrome up close and online ;-).

@Saeed, yes Afrasiyaab is part of ANP and they are relatively happier this time around with the army, but if you listen to Afrasiyaab they put the blame of talibs and militancy squarely on Army policies and ISI's strategic depth. Obviously for them it is a matter of good news that army is at least trying to kill off their assets.

[Shehbaz Khan]

Now you have a very simple view of what happened in Malakand lolzz. Let me make it very short and simple for you, even Wali e Swat blames the Army for the mess there. Everyone and their kids there now it was a straight up "lobaa" of the army and intelligence.

71 was primarily their fault in terms of military, politically they share part of the fault...however those 90,000 khakis surrendering lolz? Oh the operation searchlight they carried out....come on no civilian government in Pakistan can even come close to matching that. Operation Gibralter was the operation that started the 65 war. Sherbaz now I know why you say these things :-P. Most people don't join the army because of that certainly not due to patriotism (agha wrazae da muft jangoona larrae)....it is due to the lack of any economy in FATA and the easiest way in Pakistan for social mobility is army. Pashtuns are only 13.5-14% of the army. About your ISI comment, I don't know whether to luagh or cry....I guess I just saw Stockholm syndrome up close and online ;-).

@Saeed, yes Afrasiyaab is part of ANP and they are relatively happier this time around with the army, but if you listen to Afrasiyaab they put the blame of talibs and militancy squarely on Army policies and ISI's strategic depth. Obviously for them it is a matter of good news that army is at least trying to kill off their assets.

It's very easy to say that it was a lobaa by Intelligence .. Even if for the sake of argument I agree with you that Yes it's a loba than why are we Pakhtuns playing this drama for him:s If Talibans in Pakistan are our loba than Talibans in Afghanistan are the loba of Afghan govt? :s Or you will put their blame on us too .. TTP so far has no connection with Afghan Taliban and neither is ISI supporting them in any way or means Mind it Swat How much times have you been there after the operation :O


Yes 90,000 Khakis surrendered !! So does that mean they are useless and a piece of crap :p Come on Get a life you knew what happened in 71. The local people of the area were against them. The Mukti Bahni stories and finally the distance between the two parts of the country .. The circumstances were different ..

God knows that I've no idea about that Operation Gibralter ..
Now coming back to the point how you have an idea that Why I say things like this If you think that I am an Army freak than you are wrong I am just another guy down there having a view about everyone and everything.
Pakhtuns only from FATA don't join Army. Pakhtuns from setteled families and living in quite big cities are also dying hard to join Army what is your stance about them

Afrasiyaab and ANP both are the sellers of Pakhtun Blood. They are just making money and they will be never seen after the period is over. A complete absence of the provincial govt in the flood proves the point that these so called Pakhtun Nationalist now don't care at all about the Pakhtun nation. Where is the grand-son of Fakhr-e-Afghan and Charsaddah is totally ruined by flood have you seen him on the ground? Even Nawaz Sharif is better that him he atleast paid a visit to the affected areas .. Where are the Bilours? Where is Iftikhar Hussain... ? And this Afrasiyab is the greatest **** of ANP ..

Laaral amreki ta aghwi pat kral pa dollaro ki !!

These are the guys who harmed us all throughout.. And now we need to open our eyes..

Afrasiyab is not only OK with the Army (as he is in Power) this time but he is even OK and Happily Shaking Hands with MQMers who shed the blood of a normal Pakhtun like water !!

[BLS_1919v2.0]

It's very easy to say that it was a lobaa by Intelligence .. Even if for the sake of argument I agree with you that Yes it's a loba than why are we Pakhtuns playing this drama for him:s If Talibans in Pakistan are our loba than Talibans in Afghanistan are the loba of Afghan govt? :s Or you will put their blame on us too .. TTP so far has no connection with Afghan Taliban and neither is ISI supporting them in any way or means Mind it Swat How much times have you been there after the operation :O


Yes 90,000 Khakis surrendered !! So does that mean they are useless and a piece of crap :p Come on Get a life you knew what happened in 71. The local people of the area were against them. The Mukti Bahni stories and finally the distance between the two parts of the country .. The circumstances were different ..

God knows that I've no idea about that Operation Gibralter ..
Now coming back to the point how you have an idea that Why I say things like this If you think that I am an Army freak than you are wrong I am just another guy down there having a view about everyone and everything.
Pakhtuns only from FATA don't join Army. Pakhtuns from setteled families and living in quite big cities are also dying hard to join Army what is your stance about them

Afrasiyaab and ANP both are the sellers of Pakhtun Blood. They are just making money and they will be never seen after the period is over. A complete absence of the provincial govt in the flood proves the point that these so called Pakhtun Nationalist now don't care at all about the Pakhtun nation. Where is the grand-son of Fakhr-e-Afghan and Charsaddah is totally ruined by flood have you seen him on the ground? Even Nawaz Sharif is better that him he atleast paid a visit to the affected areas .. Where are the Bilours? Where is Iftikhar Hussain... ? And this Afrasiyab is the greatest **** of ANP ..

Laaral amreki ta aghwi pat kral pa dollaro ki !!

These are the guys who harmed us all throughout.. And now we need to open our eyes..

Afrasiyab is not only OK with the Army (as he is in Power) this time but he is even OK and Happily Shaking Hands with MQMers who shed the blood of a normal Pakhtun like water !!

Good point why are Pakhtuns (a little look in the mirror now) supporting these entities? So far you are the one saying ISI is something to be proud of. So that is the pot calling the kettle black. About Afghanistan taliban, please no one is this stupid...and we all know the reality about that group.

I just answered your question about that...it is called social mobility. It is right there in my post...read before you jump to reply.

90,000 is a big deal, it is the biggest surrender (barring WW2). Enough said.
ANP has its bad I won't defend their bad, but they are the sellers of Pashtun blood or your army and ISI? Stha army pashtaano pa ddalaro kharss krrl ao agha ISI wa che thaer 90s na wossa porae dagha militancy ae ragadd krrll. Now you have the nerve to blame them for that? Who did ANP sell it to? They asked your khudaad e muslimeen army to clean up the mess your GHQ started....I mean there is a fine line between blame and fantasy. Blame them for corruption, but selling Pashtun blood really? 90s till now was their fault? lolzz

Khaana ISI 1/3rd budget Amreeka CIA warkaee,...Israel ao Egypt saraa raajukht Pakistan army da Amreeka na ddalarae aakhlee...pa yaw guantanamo bay tha che kass laegee aop warkaee amreekae la aghae la ddalarae pak army aakhlee. Da drones che isthimaaleegee dagha da balochistan base na zee ao dae la paara Amreeka Pakistan army la paisa war kaee. Do you think you were going to say such things and get freebies? Lolzz you can do better than that.

[Shehbaz Khan]

ISI wants me to be a slave LOL .. I don't understand why are you guys so much against them .. I never felt so .. Tell me what ISI did to make me a slave and make me a slave of whom?
Now please don't say a slave of Punjab If I agree with you that they want me to be the slave of Punjab and you want me to be the slave of ANP so whats the difference between the both :O

Sister listen to me now I am staying here in Karachi from the past 3 years I never felt like a 3rd class citizen and that doesn't mean that I quitted Pakhtu or my customs NO!! You feel inferior when you come to an enviroment and you know nothing about anything So you think you are treated as a 3rd Class citizen .. Ofcourse you can't appoint an ignorant Shehbaz Khan to be the chief of Microsoft :p An ignorant Shehbaz Khan can/will only be a guard over there or something like that !!

Now coming to the point as Mehsuds and other Pakhtuns mainly live in KPK and the security is very tight over there so whenever you need to go to any military area or even entering the city you are asked several times to prove your identity and that's not that you are torchered because you are a Pakhtun it's because its the need of the hour !!

[Shehbaz Khan]

Good point why are Pakhtuns (a little look in the mirror now) supporting these entities? So far you are the one saying ISI is something to be proud of. So that is the pot calling the kettle black. About Afghanistan taliban, please no one is this stupid...and we all know the reality about that group.

I just answered your question about that...it is called social mobility. It is right there in my post...read before you jump to reply.

90,000 is a big deal, it is the biggest surrender (barring WW2). Enough said.
ANP has its bad I won't defend their bad, but they are the sellers of Pashtun blood or your army and ISI? Stha army pashtaano pa ddalaro kharss krrl ao agha ISI wa che thaer 90s na wossa porae dagha militancy ae ragadd krrll. Now you have the nerve to blame them for that? Who did ANP sell it to? They asked your khudaad e muslimeen army to clean up the mess your GHQ started....I mean there is a fine line between blame and fantasy. Blame them for corruption, but selling Pashtun blood really? 90s till now was their fault? lolzz

Khaana ISI 1/3rd budget Amreeka CIA warkaee,...Israel ao Egypt saraa raajukht Pakistan army da Amreeka na ddalarae aakhlee...pa yaw guantanamo bay tha che kass laegee aop warkaee amreekae la aghae la ddalarae pak army aakhlee. Da drones che isthimaaleegee dagha da balochistan base na zee ao dae la paara Amreeka Pakistan army la paisa war kaee. Do you think you were going to say such things and get freebies? Lolzz you can do better than that.

OK

You said that Pakhtuns join army because of Economical problem and I say that that's because they have deep love and respect for Army

Haha Now here you are wroriya Army wala zama pa vote na wo raghali.. ANP kho che vote ghwasto no hum dagha ye wayal che mong ba pa bajawar ki operation bandawo .. Aao bya e pa Swat ki hum shoro kralo .. ANP kho wayal che pa karachai ki da 12 May da shahedano badal ba akhalo nu sa badal e waghisto .. Kha che ANP da kom kar wayali di hum hagha kho Army kawi nu bya taso Army ta domra bad wali gorai :s they never created this mess ..
Dagha ANP wa kana che khalqo ta e wayal che bas dagha day russia raghla aao inqilaab day aao agha di aao dagha di :O Sa sho da dvi inqilaab che pa hakomat ki kenastal nu har sa tri hier shwal .. I've seen a red flag on the top of my house since I was born .. ma pri ma pvoheyawa za e da har cha na kha pejanam dwi na kho takra Amer Muqam aao Aftab SherpaO di che kam az kam da damako na pas hum pa khpal zay nast wo zamonga gran asfandyar kho da yao daz na pas hagha misaal o wayi
Che pa yao daz tar landana pori rasi
Ma ledalay hagha raftaar da nationalyano !!

Haha budget amreeka warkaee .. Ta sara sa saboot day ashna ? Dasi kho khalaq wayi che Taliban hum da amreki na dalari akhli nu amreka pri da dalari bandai wali na :s Its very easy to say such things but very hard to prove .. Ta khabar e da PMA (Pakistan Military Academy) yawi myashti kharcha somra da :O And how they get to manage it !!
Da asi pa daz doz na da wroriya

Drones kho da Shahbaz Base Jacobabad bara ki khabar raghalay wo katali mi hum da video so thats also a political weakness wroriya .. Sta Qaam Parast Leader Da Fakhr-e-Afghan nwasay , Da Wali Baba Zwi Asfandyar Wali Khan di pa di haqla sa woki kana pa markaz ki nast day Islamabad ki partyani kawi