Promoting Study of Islam at Stanford

[Talal]

Qrratugai pretty much summed it up, you have some typing stamina girl

[Master Khan]

He he he....maybe

nah i dont go to Stanford.....tuition is too high....and my parents make too much money so they would have to give a little bit over $50,000 out of pocket money for tuition.

When you go Afghanistan don't say that down there.
just giving you a advise

[Laila]

^^ umm okay

@ Que, why is UCLA losing its Islamic studies? They have one of the best Islamic departments there.

Looking forward to Stanford opening this department, i just hope it really goes through.

[pir_Rokhan]

Pir Rokhan is pointing at a very important issue ..Islam as a religion and Arab Cultural propaganda in the form of Islam.
Religion is faith+worship+morality and its all some one´s private matter nothing to do with culture, politics, society, economy , law , science , philosophy etc. Whats is going on in the name of Islam is not only religion but beyond that and instead of justice faith, worship and morality, Arab culture , social norms, etc are propagated in the name of Islam.

We Pashtuns are the worst sufferers of this Arab cultural invasion that we are losing our Pashtunwali to Arab culture and Arab social norms. And we are more than Arabs in its propagating and its implementation. What Taliban is doing in the name of Islam is all to implement Arab culture, law etc on us.
We must differentiate religion from other aspects of life. If one wants to be Muslim because he or she likes Islamic beliefs, mode of worship and moral codes then must do it but may not promulgate Arab culture on others in the name of islam.

All these expenditures on promoting Islam is just a waste of financial resources nothing else. There are many other important areas where these funds can be spent more appropriately. People are dying of hunger and having no clothes and having no primary schooling facilities and you are spending millions of dollars in universities in promoting Islamic studies!! and why you dont spend it on science and technology and other modern sciences in place of teaching people religion which is one´s private affair.

Osho ,you are such a blessed soul.

[pir_Rokhan]

Qrratugai pretty much summed it up, you have some typing stamina girl

Talal

What she summarised was the contents and methodology of the curriculum taught /offered in a westren varsity ,in her well elaborated post,which I am sure is just episode 1 of her reflections.

The contents of the curriculum ,for example, which have been mentioned, in no way prove that they are not used as a means to indoctrinate the Arab language and culture.

Just for reference,here is a glimpse of Darse Nizami syllabus as taught in Pakistan.One can see how far do they get from reality after studying for so many years.No wonder after getting "garduated" from Dars - Nizami , they start considering the masses around them as some lunatic aliens who need to be shown the right path.

1st year
nahav meer
ahkam us salat
insha ul arabia
tarqatul jadeda
ilm ut tajweed
muhadsa
sarf bihai
asas e arabi
..............
2nd year
tasheel un nahav
tasheel us sarf
noor ul ezah
tasheel ul mantiq & taleem ul mantiq
mutala arabia
hidayat un nahav
...............
3rd year
qudoori
osool e shashi
kafia
sabae mualliqat
mirqat
duroos ul balagat
al itqan
ilm ulm quran
...........
4th Year
sharah mulla jami
hidaya
noor ul anwar
sharah tahzeeb
talkhees ul miftah
jalalain
musnad imam e azam
risyaz ul salihen
...........
5th Year
jalalain akhri
hidaya
hussami
mukhtasar ul muaini
mishkat shareef
............
6th Year
tuzeeh wa talweeh
hidaya
tafseer e bedawi
zubdatul fikr
siraji
sharah aqauid
....
final Year
sahih bukhari
sahih muslim
jami timrizi
sharah muaini ul asar
sunan nisai
sunan abu dawood
asar e sunan
sunan ibne maja

[pir_Rokhan]

On what basis are you arguing that we are losing our culture to Arab culture.

I think we still follow Pashtunwali.
Peshawar and Kandahar being the cultural capitals of Pashtuns both have a strong sense of Pashtunwali.


I understand how Arabs have intertwined their culture with Islam, but Pashtuns rarely accept foreginers imposing sactions.

The basis of my point is the fact that religion is misinterpreted to be taken equivalent to Arab culture of those times.The practices at those times which are known to the world through Traditions,are considered equivalent to standard practices of the religion and any critcism of those Arab traditions are considered as the critique of the prophtic methodology and an innovation into religion called " bidaa".

Islam, as preached by the prophet of Islam, was a set of reformative principles and practices for the Arabs to transform their society into a progressive one opposed to their earlier anti human cultural practices and retrogressive norms which were against the principles of evolution ,progress and prosperity.However it was used an an imperialist ideology to conquoer other lands and cultures.

[Roshina]

@ Que, why is UCLA losing its Islamic studies? They have one of the best Islamic departments there.

Looking forward to Stanford opening this department, i just hope it really goes through.

I'm looking forward to Stanford's as well!

UCLA is losing it because of the complaints it has received from the students in the Islamic Studies department. But it's got really good faculty, so I'm upset!

[Roshina]

^What did you learn about in Islam in Afghanistan.

We discuss the different ways Islam is practiced throughout the Muslim world, and it includes Afghanistan. I'm currently writing on what all I've learned on these classes, so once I'm done with them fully, ka khairee, I'll share it here on PF. Give me some time, though. It's part of a project I've currently got going on.

[Roshina]

Talal

What she summarised was the contents and methodology of the curriculum taught /offered in a westren varsity ,in her well elaborated post,which I am sure is just episode 1 of her reflections.

It would be - if I weren't familiar with the graduate department of Islamic Studies in the same uni. I've friends in it who tell me about their experience as well (some are Muslims, some non-Muslims). And the same professors who teach us at the undergrad level teach at the graduate level as well. One class that's on graduate level is called Modernism & Islam, and I get to sit in on it when I have time; the teacher doesn't mind. So I assure you that it's not just an "episode" or the first episode :D I can't imagine why they'd be this progressive with the classes I'm taking with them and any less progressive with their graduate students. Yeah?

Rest assured, then, wrora Islamic Studies in the west is out to transform us into active thinkers, not passive submitters (right word?) :D

The contents of the curriculum ,for example, which have been mentioned, in no way prove that they are not used as a means to indoctrinate the Arab language and culture.

Oh, I completely agree that it's a perfect way to indoctrinate our minds with the Arab culture. The kind of stuff they familiarize us with in Arabic courses is one of the best means of doing that! But because of the importance of Arabic (both language and culture, in a way) in understanding Islam, we have no choice BUT to learn it. I mean, you can't really go into Islamic Studies without knowing Arabic. If you don't know Arabic, you can't talk about translations and interpretations of the Quran, and since that's what I'm planning to pursue, I HAVE to fully learn Arabic.

I don't have a problem with learning other languages or accepting (what I consider) the good aspects of other cultures; it's when I have to abandon my OW language and culture to accept and appreciate others that I don't support.

Just for reference,here is a glimpse of Darse Nizami syllabus as taught in Pakistan.One can see how far do they get from reality after studying for so many years.No wonder after getting "garduated" from Dars - Nizami , they start considering the masses around them as some lunatic aliens who need to be shown the right path.

LOL! Yes, that's Pakistan and other Muslim countries for ya. That's why I couldn't handle Islamic Studies in Muslim countries. I'd study Arabic in a country like Egypt, Morocco, or Yemen, but take courses IN Islamic Studies in a "Muslim" country like Pakistan? Never.

Speaking of curricula, take a look at this description of Islamic Studies from Georgetown University in Washington, D.C.

The Islamic Studies Ph.D. program at Georgetown seeks to advance knowledge and understanding of classical and modern Islamic religious thought and Islamic textual traditions, and to provide understanding of Islamic culture and intellectual history in the pre-modern and modern periods. The program offers undergraduate and graduate training in the study of the history, religion, culture, society, languages, literatures, and thought of the Islamic world, and introduces students to the traditional and modern scholarly approaches to the study of Islam.
Entering students must have at least three years of Arabic and are expected to enroll in advanced Arabic seminars. To upgrade their proficiency, students may be required to enroll in language classes concurrent with their graduate program. However, Arabic language courses taken to enable students to reach the seminar level do not count towards the degree credits. Students already enrolled in the terminal Master’s program at Georgetown must apply again if they are interested in joining the Ph.D. program; these students are not guaranteed admission, and will be considered by the admissions committee along with other applicants from outside the department.

Note their emphasis on intellectual understanding of Islam from both the classical and modern perspectives.

The courses offered in the same institution include:

- Several years of Arabic (reading, writing, formal Arabic, colloquial Arabic (Egyptian dialect), Morphology and Syntax, etc.)
- The Quran in History: A historical study of the Qur'an and other allied disciplines. Themes include the Islamic concept of the Qur'an; thematic and formal aspects of the Qur'an; modes of interpretation and principles of exegesis; and medieval and modern controversies regarding its history, formal structure, authorship and authority.

- Quranic Exegeses: This interactive graduate seminar presents an introduction to the corpus of Sunni Islamic Tafsir from the ninth to the 20th century. 1.) After a brief survey of the theoretical literature on the topic, 2.) the main authors of the Sunni Qur'anic Tafsir literature are identified; in this segment, each student (or a study group of several students) chooses a specific mufassir for in-depth analysis of this exegete's socio-political setting and intellectual/theological background and methodology. Thereafter, 3.) the seminar focuses on several Qur'anic sociopolitical concepts (such as qiwama and shura) where the students are called upon to identify patterns of continuity and change in Qur'anic hermeneutics over time. The seminar is conducted in English, but most of the readings are from the original (largely medieval) Arabic sources.

- The Quran: A linguistic, literary, and cultural analysis of the Qur'an, with special attention to its central position in these areas of Arab civilization. Fall: Suras of the Meccan period. Spring: Suras of the Medinese period.

- Islamic Law Concepts and Controversies (No description available on the website)

- Women in the Quran: The first part of this course introduces the women figures in the Qur'an and explores their role in the Qur'anic and later Islamic religious paradigms. In the second part, this course focuses on the Qur'an's gender-specific laws and regulations and their later interpretations.

- Islamic Legal Theory and Legal Change

The rest can be viewed at the link provided. I pasted only the ones that are of personal interest to me.

It's the same in all other major universities in the U.S., which include Duke, Emory, Yale, UCLA, Harvard, and University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill. I emphasize these ones 'cause I know some of the faculty there.

[Roshina]

I am excited now.

LOL! Don't be ... then you might be disappointed.

But please remind me in, say, 2-3 months about sharing those here in case I forget.

[pir_Rokhan]

Oh, I completely agree that it's a perfect way to indoctrinate our minds with the Arab culture. The kind of stuff they familiarize us with in Arabic courses is one of the best means of doing that! But because of the importance of Arabic (both language and culture, in a way) in understanding Islam, we have no choice BUT to learn it.

This is my basic point.I condem this approach.It is a cheating which the presenters and the propagators of the Islamic studies do.The serious students of Islamic studies should raise a voice against it.How is it a cheating? Here is the answer.

In 99.99% of cases Islam is projected as the way of life,the salavation for humanity,the only true philosoophy of life,the perfect system of life,correct code of life,the universl teachings of the prophets etc etc.

All these definitions if analysed by any student of epistemology are purely academic ones.If you say that it is an explanation of life and existence ,you need to refute the contemporary and/ or ancient ideas about life and existence. It encompasses ,the theory of origin of universe,the nature of life,the compostion and nature of human beings,all these are the topics of physics,biology and philosophy.

If you assert the existence of God and consider it a source for all Islamic teachings you need to discuss the scholarly arguments for the existence of God or the refutation of non existence of God.This includes among other things the basic conceptions about logic,ontology and physics.You cannot neglect creationist vs evolutionary approaches,the scholastic intepretations of for example, Shahwaliullah ,Jamaluddin Afghani,Syed Qutub,Mohmmad Qutub,Iqbal,Harun Yahya etc from the modern age and Ibne Rushd,Al Ghazali,Almawardi,Ibne Arabi etc from the medieval age and a lot more.

Similarly you need to question the modern sociological theories and concepts about society, its growth, institutions,civil rights etc in case of social and family related injunctions of the Quran etc.You need to be aware of the the role of various revolutions and their contribution to the make up of various defintions related to family,social group,community,soceity etc.

The same is true about a lot of other aspects of life which need to be considered.Without these considerations ,as I claimed earlier ,defining Islam ,is just an effort to arabise people in the name of Islam.Asking them to learn the science of religion [islam] while practically teaching them just about the language,culture and history of the nation who claimed to offer a solution to the problems of humanity and not critically evaluating te solution itself.This is same as asking people to learn science and technology and practically teaching them about British,European and American cultures instead of teaching them about Pure and Applied Sciences like Physics,Maths,Biology,Chemistry ,Engineering ,etc

I hope this necessarily explains ,thoug not sufficiently,what I wanted to commnunicate.

[khyaal]

Interesting!