Atta Muhammad Noor Ousted From Balkh Governorship

[Khostai]

Wondering what everyone thinks of what's going on.

There are reports that Dostum has flown into Uzbekistan and is planning on entering Mazar-i-Sharif soon as well. Seems like the old Northern Alliance may be trying to make a power play to contest Ghani's power. Ghani has been acting like a king rather than a president (even though he's still too much of a dawoos to speak out against America's airstrikes against civilian populations) in a lot of ways, but as long as he has America's backing, I doubt Noor, Dostum, etc. will be able to do anything. Even Abdullah Abdullah doesn't really seem to be on their side. And they can't really join the armed resistance against the US-backed government either, given their animosity towards the Taliban (let alone the fact that no one's gonna take the idea of Dostum as a Mujahid seriously), so I think they've backed themselves into a corner. I guess they could try to establish a third side (fourth if you count ISIS) in the war, but if the Taliban are already being backed by Iran, I'm not sure who they could turn to for funding.

But Noor is supposedly popular in Balkh, and Dostum is popular with Uzbeks, so I wonder if they could hold onto some degree of power in the north without attempting serious threats against the national government. Kinda like ISIS has a hold on some areas of Nangarhar. The national government is very weak, but it'd probably be too embarrassing for them to allow Mazar to be held by rebels that I doubt they'd allow Noor to maintain his hold on the city.

This was a good move of Ghani. He is delivering his promise of removing strongmen who are super corrupt and most of the time just act in their own interest. The central goverment is not that strong but it is also not super weak as you people think. If they were this weak he probably could not remove Noor from Mazar. He clearly has a strong backing against him.

[Khostai]

Most Afghan Uzbeks are bilingual in Farsi/Dari or Tajik.

Dostum has lost significant amount of support from Uzbeks recently and especially after the allegations made by Ischchi.

However, he is still regarded by most people in the same way as Altaf Hussain is across the border.

Almost every Afghan Uzbek video on YouTube praises him in some way or if not in the video, certainly in the comments.

Even his son Batur all ready to step up.

BTW IMO Dostum is a true Afghan and a real leader. He gets things done and doesn't acre about being diplomatic. He is not anti-Pashtun, in fact he can even speak Pashto.

And what are the things that he got done? Like siriously he probably eliminated all his other Uzback counterparts and brainwashed the rest to follow him. Thats the only thing he has done. And that is not not how Afghans work or do politics, thats how savages and moraly corrupt people do work.

[Khostai]

We Muslims have to think outside the box and realize that it is never governments that build a country, but the civil and private institutions. Muslims have had too much of socialism and statism expecting the State to do everything. Develop a vibrant civil society and don't wait for the government to build your country.

Choose instead a government that will be good for political stability and national security. If that happens to be a king like Zahir Shah was why not? Someone said Zahir Shah did nothing to advance Afghanistan. Why should that matter? Let Afghans advance themselves with civil society. Let's go back to our libertarian, commercial culture before the post-colonial socialism experiments.

Remember, all politics is local. Decentralization is good. It is said that warlords are corrupt. Pull the rug from below the feet of the warlords by cutting the strings of the purse.

Thats not how it works. Thats not how any of this works.

[Firdousi]

This was a good move of Ghani. He is delivering his promise of removing strongmen who are super corrupt and most of the time just act in their own interest. The central goverment is not that strong but it is also not super weak as you people think. If they were this weak he probably could not remove Noor from Mazar. He clearly has a strong backing against him.

Strongmen can be a positive force to some degree. Atta is a corrupt guy but so far Balkh is by far the best province in Afghanistan. Ghani wants to replace the guy out of Pashtun nationalism not for the higher interest of Afghanistan.

My own experience tells me that by replacing him Balkh will become a worse place. In Herat we had this charsi corrupt governor called Ismael Khan. Under IK Hera was thriving and was by far the safest and most prosperous province in Afghanistan. Since his removal it has become a worse place. I am not a fan of IK at all. He is an uneducated fool but unlike most of Jihadis at least he wasn't involved in massive bloodbaths and crimes. Most of Heratis had a good opinion of him no matter how corrupt and stupid the guy was. Now most of us miss the times when we could safely work and live in our city.

Anyway, so far the removal of Atta is not going well. Despite the uncertainty it seems Atta still being the de facto governor of Balkh. Also several key policy and military commands in the province pledged their support to him.

[Khostai]

Strongmen can be a positive force to some degree. Atta is a corrupt guy but so far Balkh is by far the best province in Afghanistan. Ghani wants to replace the guy out of Pashtun nationalism not for the higher interest of Afghanistan.

My own experience tells me that by replacing him Balkh will become a worse place. In Herat we had this charsi corrupt governor called Ismael Khan. Under IK Hera was thriving and was by far the safest and most prosperous province in Afghanistan. Since his removal it has become a worse place. I am not a fan of IK at all. He is an uneducated fool but unlike most of Jihadis at least he wasn't involved in massive bloodbaths and crimes. Most of Heratis had a good opinion of him no matter how corrupt and stupid the guy was. Now most of us miss the times when we could safely work and live in our city.

Anyway, so far the removal of Atta is not going well. Despite the uncertainty it seems Atta still being the de facto governor of Balkh. Also several key policy and military commands in the province pledged their support to him.

Does not make any sence beacuse he is replacing him with another fasrsiban from the same party.... You really are paranoid about Pashtuns, I hope one day you will get over it.

Herat is still in good conditions and people are much better off there than in any other provinces.

Warlrods and corrupt men like this cannot rule forever. We are not living in some medievel times with city states. Afghanistan needs to get control over its provinces. Governors acting like some kings in their provinces are not acceptable.

And besides you talk and think like the people who supported dictators like Sadam and Kadaffie. With arguments like we need them becuase there is nothing else. No we do not need them, there is something else and it will be not easy or simple but we must make this people stop and clean up the goverment or otherwise figures like that will become even more stronger and our future generation will have to deal with this mess. And the longer this people stay in power the harder it will be removing them.

[Firdousi]

Does not make any sence beacuse he is replacing him with another fasrsiban from the same party.... You really are paranoid about Pashtuns, I hope one day you will get over it.

Herat is still in good conditions and people are much better off there than in any other provinces.

Warlrods and corrupt men like this cannot rule forever. We are not living in some medievel times with city states. Afghanistan needs to get control over its provinces. Governors acting like some kings in their provinces are not acceptable.

And besides you talk and think like the people who supported dictators like Sadam and Kadaffie. With arguments like we need them becuase there is nothing else. No we do not need them, there is something else and it will be not easy or simple but we must make this people stop and clean up the goverment or otherwise figures like that will become even more stronger and our future generation will have to deal with this mess. And the longer this people stay in power the harder it will be removing them.

Cut the sh*t buddy.We know already all this Pashtun nationalist tricks. Yes, I despise them. Pashtun nationalist screwed our country and they deserve the most horrible suffering possible.

Afghanstan needs tor reform. Needs to give solution to his ethnic and sectarian diversity. The centralist system has failed several times I don't know why you Pashtun nationalist want to bring it back again.

You have never been to Herat so don't dare to lecture me about my hometown.

Thank you.

[Akbar]

Cut the sh*t buddy.We know already all this Pashtun nationalist tricks. Yes, I despise them. Pashtun nationalist screwed our country and they deserve the most horrible suffering possible.

Afghanstan needs tor reform. Needs to give solution to his ethnic and sectarian diversity. The centralist system has failed several times I don't know why you Pashtun nationalist want to bring it back again.

You have never been to Herat so don't dare to lecture me about my hometown.

Thank you.

You seem very frustrated , very good.
Atamamad choor and the 40 thieves days are over.
No matter how much you bark Pashtuns nationalism or whatever Afghanistan will never be according to a minority tajik nationalist chest thumbers.

Taika have been doing their best to halt the progress of Afghanistan and make sure it's depended on neighbouring countries. The loser ismail khar was minister of energy and those loser make sure we keep on buying electricity from other countries. The loser said he will sign building of a dam in Kunar if the project is given to Iran. Now the tajokes are trying to block the electronic ID cards because that will make Afghanistan progress and the election will be held easily. Not to forget their numbers will be shrunken as because they have lumped aimaq,qazilbash with themselves. Now tajokes don't want ethnicity to be mentioned. What have you guys ever done for Afghanistan. All your leaders are loser and anti Afghan and are hungry for power. LOOOOOOSSSSSSEEEEERRRSS

[Akbar]

Thats because almost no Uzbek supports Dostum. I have met some Uzbeks in Europe. Most of them were quite pro-Jamiatis and all of them were Persianspeakers.

Lol
No wonder you are desperate.
Now Uzbeks are jamiatis and Persians?😁

[زده کوونکی]

Lol
No wonder you are desperate.
Now Uzbeks are jamiatis and Persians?😁

Akbar Shah and Firdousi -

The Uzbeks of Afghanistan (Afg'onistonlik O'zbeklar) are not a single group. There are as many tribes among them as there are Pashtuns. Also, there are native tribal Afghan Qatag'on Uzbeks and then there are Muhajirs from Turkistan (Shuravi, Farg'onachi, Kasani, Qipchoq, Kazakh, Tatar, etc.) They share more within their certain groups than they do as a whole. Most are bilingual in Uzbek and Tajik (although not everyone is). There are several different Turkic dialects competing for prestige among Afghan Uzbeks so adopting Persian is easier.

[Akbar]

Akbar Shah and Firdousi -

The Uzbeks of Afghanistan (Afg'onistonlik O'zbeklar) are not a single group. There are as many tribes among them as there are Pashtuns. Also, there are native tribal Afghan Qatag'on Uzbeks and then there are Muhajirs from Turkistan (Shuravi, Farg'onachi, Kasani, Qipchoq, Kazakh, Tatar, etc.) They share more within their certain groups than they do as a whole. Most are bilingual in Uzbek and Tajik (although not everyone is). There are several different Turkic dialects competing for prestige among Afghan Uzbeks so adopting Persian is easier.

You are right but that doesn't mean tajik nationalists are not desperare cunts trying to raise their numbers by putting many different ethnicities as Tajiks.
You are also right about the Tajiks and Uzbeks who emigrated in the last century after the USSR run them over and took over their countries. Ahmad Shah masoods father is most likely one of them. In the early 90s more tajiks sought refuge in north Afghanistan but the local tajik s most likely jamiatis mistreated them and dishonored their women. Most of them returned back.

[زده کوونکی]

You are right but that doesn't mean tajik nationalists are not desperare cunts trying to raise their numbers by putting many different ethnicities as Tajiks.
You are also right about the Tajiks and Uzbeks who emigrated in the last century after the USSR run them over and took over their countries. Ahmad Shah masoods father is most likely one of them. In the early 90s more tajiks sought refuge in north Afghanistan but the local tajik s most likely jamiatis mistreated them and dishonored their women. Most of them returned back.

I am sorry but I don't get the Tajiks of Afghanistan (their ethnic history) or what their aspirations are (outside of promoting Persian language).

Samt-e-Shamal (Balkh, Faryab, Shiberghan, Kunduz etc) was historically South Turkistan until Pashtuns colonized the region (with British support) - Before that, Uzbek and other Turkic tribes were the dominant ethnicity.

Meanwhile, in the Ferghana Valley (former USSR), the same nomadic Turkic tribal identity held prestige over settled Persian-speaking identity of the modern Tajiks of Tajikistan.

When these people started migrating to what is now North Afghanistan, a lot of things changed for them. Most of the refugees/immigrants from Ferghana were of Turkic stock but also significant numbers of Tajik-speakers. Many identified neither as Tajik nor Uzbek - simply as Muhajir . Most of them spoke Turkic and Tajik - some Ferghana towns spoke Persian, but most others spoke Uzbek or Kazakh. The Kazakhs are viewed by the Uzbeks as poor relations (but relations nonetheless) however, Kazakhs are respected more than the Turkmen whom the Uzbeks regard as somewhat inferior and stereotypes abound. The social status of Turkmen in Afghanistan is far lower than that of Uzbek, but Tajiki, being intelligible with Dari, the official language of Afghanistan, is the more prestigious. Most Kazakhs (they number a lot less), however, do not speak Persian at all.

In a survey, most people from the Muhajir group chose the nomadic Uzbek tribal identity, seen as the warrior class of Central Asia, over the settled Persian-speaking Tajik identity for the same reasons why South Asian Muslims want a Pathan identity - Uzbeks and Pashtuns were the dominant ruling classes of their areas, Tajiks and others in the middle, were not involved that much.

As for Tajik, I believe the Russians made them a nation because few historical figures ever identified as such.

One of my Afghan friends told me - 90% of Persian speakers of Afghanistan are basically of Pashtun stock, they just had a culture/language shift. The only non-Pashtun Afghans are the Iranian-style Shia Farsiwans and the Hazara and others who look different from Pashtuns. Also, there are some Sunni Hazara tribes (Aimaq, Taimani etc) that have adopted a Pashtun identity and speak Pashto.

During the 90's civil war in Tajikistan, many fled to Afghanistan (and Pakistan- I have Tajikistani and Uzbekistani friends who reside in Pakistan) but as you said, I think most of those Tajik citizens returned.