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  • Israel Is Going to War in Syria to Fight Iran

    Dispatch
    Israel Is Going to War in Syria to Fight Iran

    Israeli officials aren't shying from confronting Tehran's forces — since no one else will.

    JERUSALEM – Israeli officials believe that Iran is winning its bid for dominance in the Middle East, and they are mobilizing to counter the regional realignment that threatens to follow. The focus of Israel’s military and diplomatic campaign is Syria. Israeli jets have struck Hezbollah and Syrian regime facilities and convoys dozens of times during Syria’s civil war, with the goal of preventing the transfer of weapons systems from Iran to Hezbollah. In an apparent broadening of the scope of this air campaign, on Sept. 7 Israeli jets struck a Syrian weapons facility near Masyaf responsible for the production of chemical weapons and the storing of surface-to-surface missiles.
    The strike came after a round of diplomacy in which Israeli officials concluded that their concerns regarding the developing situation in Syria were not being addressed with sufficient seriousness in either the United States or Russia. A senior delegation led by Mossad chief Yossi Cohen visited Washington in late August, reportedly to express Israel’s dissatisfaction with the emerging U.S.-Russian understanding on Syria. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu visited Russian President Vladimir Putin in Sochi to raise similar concerns with Moscow.
    In both cases, the Israelis were disappointed with the response. Their overriding concern in Syria is the free reign that all the major players there seem willing to afford Iran and its various proxies in the country. And as long as nobody else addresses that concern in satisfactory, Israel is determined to continue addressing it on its own.
    Iranian forces now maintain a presence close to or adjoining the Israeli-controlled portion of the Golan Heights and the Quneitra Crossing that separates it from the Syrian-controlled portion of the territory. Israel has throughout the Syrian war noted a desire on the part of the Iranians and their Hezbollah clients to establish this area as a second line of active confrontation against the Jewish state, in addition to south Lebanon.
    “Syria,” of course, hardly exists today. The regime is in the hands of its Iranian and Russian masters, and half of the country remains outside its control. But the Iran-led bloc and its clearly stated intention to eventually destroy Israel certainly do exist, and the de facto buffer against them may be disappearing. Hezbollah Secretary-General Hassan Nasrallah recently declared “victory” in the Syrian war, adding that what remained was “scattered battles.”
    With the prospect of pro-Iranian forces reaching Bukamal on the Syrian-Iraqi border, this opens up the possibility of the much-reported Iranian “land corridor” stretching uninterrupted from Iran itself to a few kilometers from the Israeli-controlled Golan. Earlier this month, Israel shot down an Iranian drone over the Golan Heights. It was the latest evidence of Iran’s activities on the border. Syrian opposition reports have noted an Iranian presence in Tal Al-Sha’ar area, Tal Al-Ahmar, and Division 90 headquarters, all in the vicinity of the border. Pro-Iran forces, meanwhile, are open in their ambitions. Hezbollah al-Nujaba, an Iraqi Shiite force supported by Iran, has formed a “Golan Liberation” unit and declared itself “ready to take action to liberate the Golan.” Senior figures from the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps and the Basij have been photographed in areas close to the border.
    Israel has so far thwarted these ambitions in two ways. First, it has launched attacks to frustrate and interdict attempts to build a paramilitary infrastructure in the area. Most famously, the killing of Jihad Mughniyeh, son of Hezbollah military chief Imad Mughniyeh, in a targeted strike at Mazraat Amal in the Quneitra area in January 2015 was part of this effort. Five other Hezbollah members and a general of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards, Mohammad Allahdadi, were also killed in the strike.
    Second, Israel has developed pragmatic working relations with the local rebel groups who at the moment still control the greater part of the border, such as the Fursan al-Joulan group. This cooperation focuses on treating wounded fighters and civilians, and providing humanitarian aid and financial assistance. There has also probably been assistance in the field of intelligence, though no evidence has yet emerged of direct provision of weapons or direct engagement of Israeli forces on the rebels’ behalf.
    On July 9, a ceasefire agreement directly brokered by the United States and Russia for southwest Syria was announced. It posits the establishment of a de-escalation zone in Syria’s southwest, in the area of the Quneitra and Daraa provinces. The details of the de-escalation zone are still being negotiated. But Israel has been deeply concerned that it could seriously complicate the de facto Israeli safeguards in place against Iranian infiltration of the border. If the fighting ends, physical resistance to encroachment will become more complicated and sponsorship of rebels potentially no longer relevant. As of now, Russian attempts to assure Israel that the terms of the ceasefire adequately address its concerns in this regard have evidently failed to persuade. The latest media reports on the negotiations for the zone suggest that the United States has reached an agreement with Moscow that pro-Iranian militias will be kept 25 miles from the border.
    But the issue goes beyond arrangements at the southwestern edge of Syria. Israel is concerned by Iran’s overarching regional ambitions. Recent comments by Nasrallah, the Hezbollah leader, that a future war with Israel might involve additional pro-Iranian militia forces to the Lebanese groups have been well noted in Jerusalem. Israeli Intelligence Minister Yisrael Katz recently told a security conference in Herzliya, as reported by Reuters, that in a future war between Israel and Hezbollah the latter may be able to make use of an Iranian naval port, bases for Iran’s air and ground forces, and “tens of thousands of Shiite militiamen being brought in from various countries.”
    A recent report in the London-based Al-Quds al-Arabi described Iranian plans to thin out the Sunni Arab population between Damascus and the border with Lebanon, expelling Sunni residents and replacing them with pro-government Shiites from elsewhere in the country or outside it. Israeli strategic culture tends to emphasize addressing immediate threats, but these potential demographic developments are also being watched closely in Jerusalem.
    This all forms a larger picture in which Israel sees a major shift underway in the regional balance of power, to the benefit of the Iran-led regional bloc. Anyone who has received briefings from senior Israeli security officials in recent years has become familiar with a conception of the region as divided into four broad blocs: Iran and its (mainly Shiite) allies; a loose group of countries opposed to Iran that includes the Arab autocracies of the Gulf (excluding Qatar), along with Egypt, Jordan, and Israel itself; an alliance of conservative Sunni Islamist forces, such as Turkey, Qatar, Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, and Sunni Arab rebels in Syria; and finally the regional networks of Sunni Salafi jihadism, most notably the Islamic State and al Qaeda.
    There are problems with this picture, and it contains simplifications. Most notably, the line between the conservative Sunni Islamists and the Salafis has always been blurred. There is an additional blurred line, in which authoritarian rulers such as Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi have some sympathy for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. Nevertheless, the picture was a serviceable one, adhering to many of the clear realities of the Middle East over the last decade and a half.
    But the tectonic plates of this picture are now shifting, most notably to the clear detriment of the two camps associated with Sunni political Islam. The period of Arab unrest in 2010, during which Islamist and Salafi forces seemed briefly ascendant, is now a spent force — its beneficiaries in retreat and in some cases eclipsed by Sunni autocrats and pro-Iranian forces. Hamas is seeking to rebuild its relations with Iran. Former Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi languishes in jail. Islamists in Tunisia are a minority element in the government, and Qatar is under attack from Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates because of its stances in recent years. And the Syrian Sunni Arab rebels, once the great cause of this group, are now stranded — fighting for survival and without hope of victory against the Assad regime. The Salafis, too, are in eclipse, at least as political contenders.
    Looked at from Israel, this process is a mixed bag. Sunni Islamists are hostile to Israel, of course, and for the most part, their failure to assemble a lasting power bloc is welcomed in Jerusalem. Senior Israeli security officials describe, for example, Sisi’s 2013 coup deposing the Muslim Brotherhood as a species of “miracle.” In Syria, however, the insurgent efforts of the Sunni Islamists had at least the benefit of distracting the attentions of the more formidable enemy — the Iran-led regional bloc. For five years, Israel was largely able to sit by while Sunni and Shiite political Islam were in a death’s embrace just north and east of the border. Russian and Iranian intervention, however, appears to have tipped the balance against the Sunni rebels, threatening to bring the long chapter of active civil war in Syria to a close.
    From an Israeli point of view, we are back to the pre-2010 Middle East, when Israel and pro-western Sunni powers understood they were in a direct faceoff with the Iranians and their allies. But in 2017, there is the additional complicating factor of a direct Russian physical presence in the Levant, in alliance or at least in cooperation with Israel’s enemies.
    U.S. President Donald Trump’s administration, which remains exclusively focused on the war against the Islamic State, has done little to assuage Israeli concerns. Trump and those around him, of course, share the Israeli assessment regarding the challenge of Iranian regional ambitions. The impression, however, is that the administration may well not be sufficiently focused or concerned to actually take measures necessary to halt the Iranian advance — both military and political — in Syria, Iraq, or Lebanon.
    Where does this leave Israel?
    First, Israel’s diplomatic avenues to the international power brokers in Syria remain open. When it comes to Washington, Israel’s task is to locate or induce a more coherent American strategy to counter advance of the Iranians in the Levant. Its goal when it comes to Moscow is to ensure sufficient leeway from Putin, who has no ideological animus against Israel and no special sympathy for Tehran, so that Israel can take the measures it deems necessary to halt or deter the Iranians and their proxies.
    Second, Israel will continue to rely on its military defenses, which remain without peer in the region. And as shown in Masyaf, they can be employed to halt and deter provocative actions by the Iran-led bloc where necessary. Nevertheless, as seen from Jerusalem, the shifting regional tectonic plates are producing a new situation in which the Iran-led alliance is once again directly facing Israel, consequently raising the possibility of direct confrontation. Masyaf was not the first shot in the fight between Israel and its proxies in the Levant — and it is unlikely to be the last.
    "The past is not my concern. The future is no longer my concern either. One minute. One minute of everything at once. And anything before is nothing. Everything after nothing. Nothing in comparison to that one minute."

  • #2
    I have been an hardcore anti-sionist my whole life. But now, after witnessing Muslim behavior in the last six years, I must say my opinion regarding Israel has changed a lot. I have never seen Israel carpet bombing his own people. I have never seen Israel beheading his own people. I have never seen Israelis fighting and killing mercilessly each other. Israel is the less bad country in a region where all the rest are pure S H I T.

    BTW there won't be any Israeli war in Syria. Yeah they might step up their strikes and raids, but without USA, Israel can't do s hit. Today I have read that next week the Orange Buffon is going to cancel the nuclear agreement with Iran. Since KSA has made also a major purchase of weapons, its safe to say that a new regional war is looming.. but who knows, this is the ME after all. Impossible is nothing.
    "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
    I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

    -Ferdowsi.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Firdousi View Post
      I have been an hardcore anti-sionist my whole life. But now, after witnessing Muslim behavior in the last six years, I must say my opinion regarding Israel has changed a lot. I have never seen Israel carpet bombing his own people. I have never seen Israel beheading his own people. I have never seen Israelis fighting and killing mercilessly each other. Israel is the less bad country in a region where all the rest are pure S H I T.
      i AGREED. Israel does not kill their own people, but they are persecuting Palestinians. In Gaza, Palestinians live in an open prison. In the West Bank, Israelis continue to increase the number of settlements on Palestinian lands. However, this does not compare to Syria where Iran and it's Shia proxy militias are perpetrating a genocide of Sunni Muslims, and resettling those areas with Shias.

      BTW there won't be any Israeli war in Syria. Yeah they might step up their strikes and raids, but without USA, Israel can't do s hit.
      After the nuclear deal that Obama signed with Iran in which US pretty much gave everything away to Iran, no one in the region really puts much credibility in the US word. US actions in Syria/Iraq and in Lebanon (supplying arms to the Lebanese government which is allied with Hezbollah) has made Iran much stronger than before. This is a major threat to Israel not just Sunni states.


      US actually opposes Israeli unilateral strikes on Iran and the regime in Syria, but has been unable to stop Israel from doing this. Hence, Israel can do a lot without US/Trump Administration support because they enjoy a lot of support from the US Senate and Congress.


      History shows that Israel does not just talk, they also act. They have never made a threat they did not follow through with.

      Today I have read that next week the Orange Buffon is going to cancel the nuclear agreement with Iran. Since KSA has made also a major purchase of weapons, its safe to say that a new regional war is looming.. but who knows, this is the ME after all. Impossible is nothing.
      Cancelling the Iranian nuclear deal will result in Iran using up it's cash reserves, money which they have been using to fund the mass slaughter of Sunnis in Syria.
      "The past is not my concern. The future is no longer my concern either. One minute. One minute of everything at once. And anything before is nothing. Everything after nothing. Nothing in comparison to that one minute."

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Insight View Post
        i AGREED. Israel does not kill their own people, but they are persecuting Palestinians. In Gaza, Palestinians live in an open prison. In the West Bank, Israelis continue to increase the number of settlements on Palestinian lands. However, this does not compare to Syria where Iran and it's Shia proxy militias are perpetrating a genocide of Sunni Muslims, and resettling those areas with Shias.



        After the nuclear deal that Obama signed with Iran in which US pretty much gave everything away to Iran, no one in the region really puts much credibility in the US word. US actions in Syria/Iraq and in Lebanon (supplying arms to the Lebanese government which is allied with Hezbollah) has made Iran much stronger than before. This is a major threat to Israel not just Sunni states.


        US actually opposes Israeli unilateral strikes on Iran and the regime in Syria, but has been unable to stop Israel from doing this. Hence, Israel can do a lot without US/Trump Administration support because they enjoy a lot of support from the US Senate and Congress.


        History shows that Israel does not just talk, they also act. They have never made a threat they did not follow through with.



        Cancelling the Iranian nuclear deal will result in Iran using up it's cash reserves, money which they have been using to fund the mass slaughter of Sunnis in Syria.
        With all due respect, but S C R E W Palestine. Arabs are a lost cause. they can't get their s hit together. They are doomed to be ruled by Turks, Persians, West or Israel. Israel is one of the most advanced countries in the world. Arab Israelies have more rights than Arabs in any Arab country. Palestinians are always playing the victim card but they are to be blamed too.

        The Nuclear Deal was a "face saving" signed by Obama who knew that the ME is a mess, that USA will never win there, that all the American interventionist is doomed to fail. He wanted Russia, Turkey, Iran, Arabs, Israel, China and Arabs to sort the mess out. Obama knew that the future of the world lays in the Far East ("pivot to Asia"). Thats why he pushed so hard for the TPP, but the Orange Clown decided to halt it and now China will take over. USA is digging his own grave.

        Nobody can stop Israel. Israel is the only country in the world that when draws red lines that F UCKING exist is Israel. I have nothing but respect for Jews and their state but although their army is unmatched in the region, and although their commitment when it comes to their own legit interests is unquestionable there is a limit for what Israel can do. Israel can't target Iran basically because they don't have the logistic nor the capacity to reach Iran. But Iran can easily reach now Israel from Lebanon and Syria. Yeah its true both Russia and USA have given green light to Israel to do whatever she wants (they would do it anyway though) but I insist there are limits.

        Canceling the deal means USA is a joke of country that her words means nothing. Who is going to reach agreements with a disgusting state that is unwilling to respect his own promises? That would mean that even a fascist rogue state like Iran is better and more trustworthy than the "mightiest democracy in the world".
        "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
        I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

        -Ferdowsi.

        Comment


        • #5
          [QUOTE]
          Originally posted by Firdousi View Post
          With all due respect, but S C R E W Palestine. Arabs are a lost cause. they can't get their s hit together. They are doomed to be ruled by Turks, Persians, West or Israel.
          The whole world literally runs on Arab oil. Ruled by the West, but the leader of the Free World- Trump had to go to Saudi Arabia and dance for and with the King. Im not fan of Arab monarchs, but your bias is clouding your thinking. As for Persians, their country is a total mess, destroyed by US sanctions of the last 20 years.



          The Nuclear Deal was a "face saving" signed by Obama who knew that the ME is a mess, that USA will never win there, that all the American interventionist is doomed to fail. He wanted Russia, Turkey, Iran, Arabs, Israel, China and Arabs to sort the mess out. Obama knew that the future of the world lays in the Far East ("pivot to Asia"). Thats why he pushed so hard for the TPP, but the Orange Clown decided to halt it and now China will take over. USA is digging his own grave.
          This is just your opinion.

          Nobody can stop Israel. Israel is the only country in the world that when draws red lines that F UCKING exist is Israel. I have nothing but respect for Jews and their state but although their army is unmatched in the region, and although their commitment when it comes to their own legit interests is unquestionable there is a limit for what Israel can do. Israel can't target Iran basically because they don't have the logistic nor the capacity to reach Iran. But Iran can easily reach now Israel from Lebanon and Syria. Yeah its true both Russia and USA have given green light to Israel to do whatever she wants (they would do it anyway though) but I insist there are limits.
          US and Russia, 2 global superpowers can not stop Israel, but Iran can stop Israel? Care to explain that more because no offense but that seems like it came straight out of Khamenei's Press Tv state propaganda.

          The fact is Israel has struck Iranian troops in Syria, and killed several Iranian generals in the process. In 2006, Israel destroyed Lebanon in it's war with Hezbollah. The only thing we see time and time again is the IRGC/Hezbollah getting killed by Israeli airstrikes in Syria. You call this Iranian reach to Israel?

          Israeli jets fly through Lebanese and Syrian airspace to strike at Iranian and regime troops in broad daylight with Russians just watching.

          Canceling the deal means USA is a joke of country that her words means nothing. Who is going to reach agreements with a disgusting state that is unwilling to respect his own promises? That would mean that even a fascist rogue state like Iran is better and more trustworthy than the "mightiest democracy in the world".
          ^This is your opinion. In my opinion, the US-Iran nuclear deal made US a global laughing stock. Russian jets started buzzing US aircraft carriers after the deal, not before. Iran itself started issuing more threats to the US after the deal, not before. The US nuclear deal was a victory for Iran, and a defeat or surrender for the US.

          Trump canceling the deal or the US Congress/Senate passing new and tougher sanctions reverses all that. The US will no longer look so desperate
          "The past is not my concern. The future is no longer my concern either. One minute. One minute of everything at once. And anything before is nothing. Everything after nothing. Nothing in comparison to that one minute."

          Comment


          • #6
            [QUOTE=Insight;814103]

            The whole world literally runs on Arab oil. Ruled by the West, but the leader of the Free World- Trump had to go to Saudi Arabia and dance for and with the King. Im not fan of Arab monarchs, but your bias is clouding your thinking. As for Persians, their country is a total mess, destroyed by US sanctions of the last 20 years.





            This is just your opinion.



            US and Russia, 2 global superpowers can not stop Israel, but Iran can stop Israel? Care to explain that more because no offense but that seems like it came straight out of Khamenei's Press Tv state propaganda.

            The fact is Israel has struck Iranian troops in Syria, and killed several Iranian generals in the process. In 2006, Israel destroyed Lebanon in it's war with Hezbollah. The only thing we see time and time again is the IRGC/Hezbollah getting killed by Israeli airstrikes in Syria. You call this Iranian reach to Israel?

            Israeli jets fly through Lebanese and Syrian airspace to strike at Iranian and regime troops in broad daylight with Russians just watching.



            ^This is your opinion. In my opinion, the US-Iran nuclear deal made US a global laughing stock. Russian jets started buzzing US aircraft carriers after the deal, not before. Iran itself started issuing more threats to the US after the deal, not before. The US nuclear deal was a victory for Iran, and a defeat or surrender for the US.

            Trump canceling the deal or the US Congress/Senate passing new and tougher sanctions reverses all that. The US will no longer look so desperate
            Your mood has changed since I said that Arabs are a failure. You Pakis no matter how many times were raped and brainwashed, deep down still Dalits that overreact when your masters are under attack lol

            Dont be stupid and stop twisting my words. Israel has no capabilities to attack Iran basically because Iran is far away from Israel. Thats why your Arab lords offered their airspace in order to attack Iran (several times). Nobody can stop Israel from doing whatever they want but there are limits. BTW if you consider Russia, a failed corrupt kleptocracy, a "global power" you must be really stupid. I mean, really, really stupid lol

            Saudis 'would let Israeli jets use their air space to attack Iran' | The Times of Israel

            Its not an opinion, ITS A FACT. Under Obama USA started a strategic withdrawal from the Islamic world. The only thing that forced them to stay was the rise of ISIS. Even now their work is more bombing and helping local ground forces than engaging in properly fighting. USA has been a joke since Bush got into the oval office. Things got worse with that loser, Obama, who didnt even respect his own red lines and now with Trump USA has turned into a living joke.
            "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
            I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

            -Ferdowsi.

            Comment


            • #7
              [QUOTE=Insight;814103]

              The whole world literally runs on Arab oil. Ruled by the West, but the leader of the Free World- Trump had to go to Saudi Arabia and dance for and with the King. Im not fan of Arab monarchs, but your bias is clouding your thinking. As for Persians, their country is a total mess, destroyed by US sanctions of the last 20 years.





              This is just your opinion.



              US and Russia, 2 global superpowers can not stop Israel, but Iran can stop Israel? Care to explain that more because no offense but that seems like it came straight out of Khamenei's Press Tv state propaganda.

              The fact is Israel has struck Iranian troops in Syria, and killed several Iranian generals in the process. In 2006, Israel destroyed Lebanon in it's war with Hezbollah. The only thing we see time and time again is the IRGC/Hezbollah getting killed by Israeli airstrikes in Syria. You call this Iranian reach to Israel?

              Israeli jets fly through Lebanese and Syrian airspace to strike at Iranian and regime troops in broad daylight with Russians just watching.



              ^This is your opinion. In my opinion, the US-Iran nuclear deal made US a global laughing stock. Russian jets started buzzing US aircraft carriers after the deal, not before. Iran itself started issuing more threats to the US after the deal, not before. The US nuclear deal was a victory for Iran, and a defeat or surrender for the US.

              Trump canceling the deal or the US Congress/Senate passing new and tougher sanctions reverses all that. The US will no longer look so desperate
              Your mood has changed since I said that Arabs are a failure. You Pakis no matter how many times were raped and brainwashed, deep down still Dalits that overreact when your masters are under attack lol

              Dont be stupid and stop twisting my words. Israel has no capabilities to attack Iran basically because Iran is far away from Israel. Thats why your Arab lords offered their airspace in order to attack Iran (several times). Nobody can stop Israel from doing whatever they want. BTW if you consider Russia, a failed corrupt kleptocracy, a "global power" you must be really stupid. I mean, really, really stupid lol

              Saudis 'would let Israeli jets use their air space to attack Iran' | The Times of Israel

              Its not an opinion, ITS A FACT. Under Obama USA started a strategic withdrawal from the Islamic world. The only thing that forced them to stay was the rise of ISIS. Even now their work is more bombing and helping local ground forces than engaging in properly fighting. USA has been a joke since Bush got into the oval office. Things got worse with that loser, Obama, who didnt even respect his own red lines and now with Trump USA has turned into a living joke.
              "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
              I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

              -Ferdowsi.

              Comment


              • #8
                [QUOTE=Firdousi;814109]
                Originally posted by Insight View Post

                Your mood has changed since I said that Arabs are a failure. You Pakis no matter how many times were raped and brainwashed, deep down still Dalits that overreact when your masters are under attack lol

                Dont be stupid and stop twisting my words. Israel has no capabilities to attack Iran basically because Iran is far away from Israel. Thats why your Arab lords offered their airspace in order to attack Iran (several times). Nobody can stop Israel from doing whatever they want. BTW if you consider Russia, a failed corrupt kleptocracy, a "global power" you must be really stupid. I mean, really, really stupid lol

                Saudis 'would let Israeli jets use their air space to attack Iran' | The Times of Israel

                Its not an opinion, ITS A FACT. Under Obama USA started a strategic withdrawal from the Islamic world. The only thing that forced them to stay was the rise of ISIS. Even now their work is more bombing and helping local ground forces than engaging in properly fighting. USA has been a joke since Bush got into the oval office. Things got worse with that loser, Obama, who didnt even respect his own red lines and now with Trump USA has turned into a living joke.
                NO no man, you are big Iranian wannabe joke who is not even worthy of the respectful manner in which I have been discussing with you. See how worthless you are, I didn't even bother to reply to you immediately as you react to my posts LOL You are a JOKE when you say Iran has reach to strike Israel when Israel strikes Iranian forces/Asad/Hezbollah on almost a weekly basis now. In fact, they just did today and a few days ago. Is that Iranian power- to get smacked and pissed on the face by Israeli jets, and not even retaliate? Maybe in your twisted world, it is power that Iran restrains itself from striking back at Israel, but happily continues to conduct a mass genocide of Sunnis in Syria Iran is all big talk
                Last edited by Insight; 10-19-2017, 01:59 PM.
                "The past is not my concern. The future is no longer my concern either. One minute. One minute of everything at once. And anything before is nothing. Everything after nothing. Nothing in comparison to that one minute."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Judgment Day is coming for Saudia. I can't wait for the Saudi monarchy to collapse.

                  The Shiites of Eastern Province are rising up

                  The Huthis of Yemen are making incredible gains

                  The Saudi family is fragmenting since Salman made his son crown prince (upsetting both Abdul Aziz bin Muqrin and Muhammad bin Nayef)

                  Saudi economy is faltering after oil prices came down like a ton of bricks

                  Saudis are increasingly acting paranoid and reckless, as evidenced by the recent pointless blockade of Qatar

                  People all over the world hate the Saudi regime and are beginning to protest their own governments dealing with the Saudis, which means soon the Saudis could become a pariah state

                  Saudis are on a collision course with Iran, a conflict they will definitely lose

                  Finally, from my religious perspective, I know that Imam al-Mahdi عليه السلام will emerge soon from Mecca and through him the Saudi regime will finally be toppled and replaced by an apocalyptic Mahdist regime
                  [SIZE="4"][FONT="HardTimesW01-Roman"]My Blog
                  [url]www.salvation-from-hell.com[/url][/FONT][/SIZE]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ذو الفقار View Post
                    Finally, from my religious perspective, I know that Imam al-Mahdi عليه السلام will emerge soon from Mecca and through him the Saudi regime will finally be toppled and replaced by an apocalyptic Mahdist regime
                    You believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmad will rise from the grave?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by maneatinglizard View Post
                      You believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmad will rise from the grave?
                      Of course, everyone will rise from the grave
                      [SIZE="4"][FONT="HardTimesW01-Roman"]My Blog
                      [url]www.salvation-from-hell.com[/url][/FONT][/SIZE]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ذو الفقار View Post
                        Of course, everyone will rise from the grave
                        You know what my question was, why do you keep trying to hide your beliefs?

                        You claim Imam Mahdi will emerge from Makkah soon, but Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed he was Imam Mahdi and he's dead. So either he's a liar, or he'll rise from the grave and resume his role as Imam Mahdi.

                        Which is it?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by maneatinglizard View Post
                          You know what my question was, why do you keep trying to hide your beliefs?

                          You claim Imam Mahdi will emerge from Makkah soon, but Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed he was Imam Mahdi and he's dead. So either he's a liar, or he'll rise from the grave and resume his role as Imam Mahdi.

                          Which is it?
                          I answered your straightforward "Yes or No" question with a straightforward answer "Yes"
                          How can you conceivably conclude that I am hiding my beliefs?

                          As for your second question, I will once again give a straightforward answer without hiding my beliefs.

                          I never claimed to believe that Ghulam Ahmad was the Mahdi, as I am not a Qadiani, as I made clear several times already.

                          Ghulam Ahmad in fact claimed to be the Mahdi in a linguistic sense, as Mahdi simply means "Guided one". The Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam) referred to his Khulafa al-Raashideen as "al-Mahdiyeen", meaning that Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali and Hasan (Radi Allahu anhum) are all "Mahdis", but in the linguistic sense of being guided individuals.

                          As for the particular Mahdi who will be from the progeny of sayyida Fatima, Ghulam Ahmad made explicitly clear that he does not claim to be that particular promised Mahdi who is yet to come. Hence he wrote:


                          میرا یہ دعوی نہیں ہے کہ میں وہ مہدی ہوں جو مصداق
                          من ولد فاطمة ومن عترتی وغیرہ ہے

                          “I do not claim to be that Mahdi for whom it is said ‘from the children of Fatima and from my progeny’, etc.”
                          Reference: Ruhani Khaza’in; v. 21, p. 356

                          He also wrote:

                          اور ممکن ہے کہ امام محمد کے نام پر بھی کوئی مہدی ظاہر ہو
                          “It is possible that a Mahdi with the name Imam Muhammad will appear”
                          Reference: Ruhani Khaza’in; v. 3, p. 379

                          Therefore, to answer your question, Ghulam Ahmad did not lie since he never claimed to be the Fatimid Mahdi mentioned in the Hadith. Similarly, I am not hiding my beliefs because I am not a Qadiani and do not believe that Ghulam Ahmad is the Fatimid Mahdi, I believe with utmost certainty that the Fatimid Mahdi is yet to emerge (may Allah hasten his appearance)
                          [SIZE="4"][FONT="HardTimesW01-Roman"]My Blog
                          [url]www.salvation-from-hell.com[/url][/FONT][/SIZE]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ذو الفقار View Post
                            I answered your straightforward "Yes or No" question with a straightforward answer "Yes"
                            How can you conceivably conclude that I am hiding my beliefs?
                            From the beginning you've hidden your beliefs and made taqiyyah. As I've said multiple times now, no one is fooled by your sophistry here, so why continue the charade?

                            The funniest thing is you exposed yourself better than anyone here could have by linking us to your blog. It only took a few minutes of digging to find you attacking your supposed Panjpiri teacher, and praising the liar and false prophet, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, claiming he received revelation from Allah (subhana wa ta`la), and following his name with the prayer "alayhi salam."

                            And yet here you are, still unwilling to admit your true beliefs. And for what? Hoping you'll convert someone to Qadianism?

                            Originally posted by ذو الفقار View Post
                            As for your second question, I will once again give a straightforward answer without hiding my beliefs.

                            I never claimed to believe that Ghulam Ahmad was the Mahdi, as I am not a Qadiani, as I made clear several times already.
                            You certainly resemble your Ghulam Ahmad in your lack of honesty.

                            We all know Qadianis reject the term, and resent that Muslims call them Qadianis instead of their preferred "Ahmadi Muslim." So you claiming not to be a Qadiani means nothing.

                            Originally posted by ذو الفقار View Post
                            Ghulam Ahmad in fact claimed to be the Mahdi in a linguistic sense, as Mahdi simply means "Guided one". The Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam) referred to his Khulafa al-Raashideen as "al-Mahdiyeen", meaning that Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali and Hasan (Radi Allahu anhum) are all "Mahdis", but in the linguistic sense of being guided individuals.

                            As for the particular Mahdi who will be from the progeny of sayyida Fatima, Ghulam Ahmad made explicitly clear that he does not claim to be that particular promised Mahdi who is yet to come. Hence he wrote:


                            میرا یہ دعوی نہیں ہے کہ میں وہ مہدی ہوں جو مصداق
                            من ولد فاطمة ومن عترتی وغیرہ ہے

                            “I do not claim to be that Mahdi for whom it is said ‘from the children of Fatima and from my progeny’, etc.”
                            Reference: Ruhani Khaza’in; v. 21, p. 356

                            He also wrote:

                            اور ممکن ہے کہ امام محمد کے نام پر بھی کوئی مہدی ظاہر ہو
                            “It is possible that a Mahdi with the name Imam Muhammad will appear”
                            Reference: Ruhani Khaza’in; v. 3, p. 379
                            Why don't you provide the full quotes instead of trying to hide behind half-statements? He denied the existence of the true Mahdi, because he claimed that he was the Mahdi, despite not fulfilling any of the description of the Mahdi in background or deed.

                            Originally posted by ذو الفقار View Post
                            Therefore, to answer your question, Ghulam Ahmad did not lie since he never claimed to be the Fatimid Mahdi mentioned in the Hadith. Similarly, I am not hiding my beliefs because I am not a Qadiani and do not believe that Ghulam Ahmad is the Fatimid Mahdi, I believe with utmost certainty that the Fatimid Mahdi is yet to emerge (may Allah hasten his appearance)
                            Ghulam Ahmad is not a liar? The man who claimed to be Muhammad (salla Allahu alayhi wa salam), Imam Mahdi, the Messiah, etc., is not a liar?

                            Is this not a lie:

                            As Buruz, I am the same Prophet Khatamun Nabiyyin. It was twenty years ago, in Brahin-e-Ahmadiyya, that God named me 'Muhammad' and 'Ahmad' and declared me to be the Holy Prophet.

                            https://www.alislam.org/library/book...on-Removed.pdf (pg. 22)
                            I say that anyone who claims this is either a lying kafir, or an insane person, and the same must apply to anyone stupid enough to believe such a khabeeth.

                            As for you, you couldn't help hiding your true beliefs in the same statement in which you deny hiding them. Qadianis reject the term, and do not consider Ghulam Ahmad the "Fatimid Mahdi" as you refer to him. If you want us to believe that you're not a Qadiani, accept that he was either a liar or insane, and that his followers are kuffar, as is the non-Qadiani position.

                            And relevant to this forum, the stupid Punjabi khabeeth Ghulam Ahmad claimed to be Persian:

                            I declare on the basis of Divine revelation that I am Persian by descent

                            https://www.alislam.org/library/book...on-Removed.pdf (pg. 24)
                            Seems like he couldn't help but partake in the great Punjabi tradition of falsifying heritage lol.
                            Last edited by maneatinglizard; 10-19-2017, 09:28 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by maneatinglizard View Post

                              Ghulam Ahmad is not a liar? The man who claimed to be Muhammad (salla Allahu alayhi wa salam), Imam Mahdi, the Messiah, etc., is not a liar?

                              Is this not a lie:
                              You don't have sufficient knowledge of Islam and Islamic terminology to understand these quotes. Burooz is a Sufi concept, from the Arabic word meaning projection or manifestation. Ghulam Ahmad's claim to being the Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam) has to be understood in light of Sufi concepts and terminology, not in the apparent sense. Being the Burooz of someone means you reflect his or her persona and are an image of him in terms of characteristics. It is not the same thing as reincarnation (tanasukh), as Mujaddid Ali Thani (rahmatullah alaih) explained. I have written about that in depth on my blog:

                              رَبَّ جِبْرِيلَ وَمِيكَائِيلَ وَإِسْرَافِيلَ أَعِذْنِي مِنْ حَرِّ النَّارِ وَعَذَابِ الْقَبْرِ: Iqbal's Book Islam and Ahmadism Refuted...Part 4


                              And relevant to this forum, the stupid Punjabi khabeeth Ghulam Ahmad claimed to be Persian:

                              Seems like he couldn't help but partake in the great Punjabi tradition of falsifying heritage lol.
                              Once again you expose your ignorance in thinking that all Punjabis share the same ancestry. Punjabis are a very mixed population. Mirza itself is a family name which suggests foreign ancestry. The truth is that Ghulam Ahmad, on his paternal side, was a descendant of Mirza Hadi Beg, a descendant of Timur from Samarqand. This is also why Ghulam Ahmad and his family have noticeable Turkic/Mongolic features such as a slight epicanthic fold. Some of Ghulam Ahmad's maternal and paternal grandmothers were also Saadaat. As for his claim of having Persian ancestry, that too isn't unusual, considering how much mixing went on back then, especially within the Mirza family.
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