On 72nd A-bomb anniversary, Hiroshima highlights Japan’s refusal to join U.N. nuke ba

[khushal]

oh its true that the West looted the rest of the world during colonialism but I don't think it was a one way street. I mean Western countries indeed also invested a lot of money and in resources in their own colonies that benefited them to modernize in the long term. Countries who didn't suffer colonialism such as Haiti or Afghanistan lack of proper and basic infrastructures. I think our victory was our dismiss. We use to believe that military victories are good things even when they are not. Our victory over the URSS brought us nothing good. Sometimes its better to make deals than defeating your enemies..

I am not a pro-democracy person per se nor I am in love with individualism. I admire it and believe we should adopt some of the good things that West can offer us (rule of law, legal certainty, stable governmental institutions, modern technology, modern science, modern medicine, etc) but I don't believe we should adopt Western values nor their ways. You see modern Westerners are becoming too decadent. Their men are effeminate, their women are stuck up and bitching 24/7, their youth lack of values and have a serious problem with drugs and alcohol, lack of family values, high divorce rates, low birth rates, pessimism, lack of collective values,.. all these things if not addressed will eventually bring the "Western civilization" down.

Modernization, democratization and Westernization are different things. We should modernize, democratize to some degree and avoid Westernization.

Your falsely assuming that the whole World was barbaric until European colonialists came to the rescue. If one looks at the historical world GDP:
Share of world GDP throughout history by Dave Drabble - Infogram

India and China started waning in wealth as colonialists took over and looted. They didnt develop these places by building a road here and there, they looted them and left them in turmoil.

[Firdousi]

The violence in the Middle East is a product of current military interventions and dictatorships which are assets that colonials left behind. While they condemn ISIS's human rights abuses and beheadings, they protect the Saudi regime which are guilty of the same abuses. The West creates violent groups through ignorant and hypocritic policies.

Thats true to some degree. But you cannot nor should blame on the USA all your miseries. This region has rules and live of his own. You are overestimating Western interventionism role in the region which I do agree that has been mostly negative. Middle Eastern and Central Asians people are to be blamed too.

Nobody forced the Arabs to revolt against their Turkish brothers. It was it their own collective decision and except for the GCC´s who benefited the rest of them got nothing but Western colonialism, Israel and a century of misery and humiliation. We have plenty of homemade problems that can not be blamed on the West.

Except for the GCC states who seriously care about their people, we have a systematic problem with our regimes. Every single ideology has failed in the Islamic world whether it was liberal democracy (Turkey), illiberal democracy (Iran), despotic unipersonal dictatorship (Syria, Uzbekistan), military dictatorship (Pakistan) and even Islamic democracy (Afgahnistan, Egypt under Morsi, and so on). Our regimes have failed to bring development, progress, stability and education to our people. Thats why people turn to Islamists movements because they are the true ideology of this region and not just imported Western ideologies.

Its true that the West is hypocrite but blaming them for all our failures its nor true nor does it help. We need to address the roots of our flaws and not hiding them by playing the blame game. Just my two cents.

[Firdousi]

Your falsely assuming that the whole World was barbaric until European colonialists came to the rescue. If one looks at the historical world GDP:
Share of world GDP throughout history by Dave Drabble - Infogram

India and China started waning in wealth as colonialists took over and looted. They didnt develop these places by building a road here and there, they looted them and left them in turmoil.

Economy and civilization are different things. For every people civilization means adopting its ways. For Chinese civilization means Sinification, for Muslims Islamization, for the West Westernization, and so on. Colonialists didn't come "to the rescue", they came to submit, oppress and loot us, and impose their ways on us. Thats the true. But its also true that the West created what now its called "modernity". One of the positive side effects of colonialism was that non Western peoples we are able to access to more advanced technology, science and medicine which would be just impossible for them to get if the West was less "open". Form this point of view Colonialism benefited us and has damaged the West in the long term.

Your link means nothing to me. After the Industrial Revolution and the Great Divergence the West with his new, modern and advanced industry left behind the rest of the less developed world. Its pretty obvious that their GDP would increase and those defeated would decrease. The West didn't left them in turmoil, they were already in turmoil and decay thats why the West defeated them so easily in the first place Just like its a fact that out of the current most advanced countries in the world almost all of them are partners or have adopted the Western economic model. You check it out yourself:

400 Bad Request

You see guys history is not just a conspiracy created by the White man. You guys need to stop blaming the West for everything and start doing some introspection.

[khushal]

Economy and civilization are different things. For every people civilization means adopting its ways. For Chinese civilization means Sinification, for Muslims Islamization, for the West Westernization, and so on. Colonialists didn't come "to the rescue", they came to submit, oppress and loot us, and impose their ways on us. Thats the true. But its also true that the West created what now its called "modernity". One of the positive side effects of colonialism was that non Western peoples we are able to access to more advanced technology, science and medicine which would be just impossible for them to get if the West was less "open". Form this point of view Colonialism benefited us and has damaged the West in the long term.

Your link means nothing to me. After the Industrial Revolution and the Great Divergence the West with his new, modern and advanced industry left behind the rest of the less developed world. Its pretty obvious that their GDP would increase and those defeated would decrease. The West didn't left them in turmoil, they were already in turmoil and decay thats why the West defeated them so easily in the first place Just like its a fact that out of the current most advanced countries in the world almost all of them are partners or have adopted the Western economic model. You check it out yourself:

400 Bad Request

You see guys history is not just a conspiracy created by the White man. You guys need to stop blaming the West for everything and start doing some introspection.

The colonialists used the colony’s natural resources, money savings, and their lands, which lead the colony to rely on the colonialists and therefore, leaving the country underdeveloped. This system is still active where the hegemonic power keeps nation states in conflict to rely on the hegemonic power therefore underdeveloped.
Your claim of a two way street is completely flawed. Out of all people in the World, you as a person from Afghanistan should know why our people are in conflict therefore underdeveloped.

Your saying what Robert E Lee said about slavery. That the African is better off in the US where he is fed and protected than in Africa which reminds me of this episode:
The Twilight Zone S3E24 To Serve Man - Video Dailymotion

[khushal]

Thats true to some degree. But you cannot nor should blame on the USA all your miseries. This region has rules and live of his own. You are overestimating Western interventionism role in the region which I do agree that has been mostly negative. Middle Eastern and Central Asians people are to be blamed too.

Nobody forced the Arabs to revolt against their Turkish brothers. It was it their own collective decision and except for the GCC´s who benefited the rest of them got nothing but Western colonialism, Israel and a century of misery and humiliation. We have plenty of homemade problems that can not be blamed on the West.

Except for the GCC states who seriously care about their people, we have a systematic problem with our regimes. Every single ideology has failed in the Islamic world whether it was liberal democracy (Turkey), illiberal democracy (Iran), despotic unipersonal dictatorship (Syria, Uzbekistan), military dictatorship (Pakistan) and even Islamic democracy (Afgahnistan, Egypt under Morsi, and so on). Our regimes have failed to bring development, progress, stability and education to our people. Thats why people turn to Islamists movements because they are the true ideology of this region and not just imported Western ideologies.

Its true that the West is hypocrite but blaming them for all our failures its nor true nor does it help. We need to address the roots of our flaws and not hiding them by playing the blame game. Just my two cents.

I'm not blaming anyone especially the people, Western or Eastern, just explaining what happened. Western Corps will do what will make them money and GCC monarchs will do what will keep them in power. But as long as Western Corps have hegemonic influence over vast regions and peoples, these regimes will never go away, they may be replaced with other similar like regimes that will do nothing for their people, but in essence change will not come.

[Firdousi]

The colonialists used the colony’s natural resources, money savings, and their lands, which lead the colony to rely on the colonialists and therefore, leaving the country underdeveloped. This system is still active where the hegemonic power keeps nation states in conflict to rely on the hegemonic power therefore underdeveloped.
Your claim of a two way street is completely flawed. Out of all people in the World, you as a person from Afghanistan should know why our people are in conflict therefore underdeveloped.

Your saying what Robert E Lee said about slavery. That the African is better off in the US where he is fed and protected than in Africa which reminds me of this episode:
The Twilight Zone S3E24 To Serve Man - Video Dailymotion

Afghanistan is a mess because like most of the modern "Islamic nation-states" are fake entities created during a colonialist context. Once that key factor (colonialism) was removed from the equation, Afghanistan lost the reason why it came to existence in the first place (a buffer-state between Russia and Brits).

Afghans are always bragging about their 5000 years old history, but truth is that our country is not even two centuries old. its a failed state, culturally confused, with a fake history, fake identity, fake boundaries, fake name, fake everything. The problem of Afghanistan is Afghanistan itself and the Western imposed notion of "nation-state" on us, which its pretty obvious an utter failure. Thats one of the main reasons behind the current chaos in our countries. West exported to the Islamic world not only its values, but also its political, economic and social institutions. Well, it didn't work and presumably it won't work in the near future either.

[Firdousi]

I'm not blaming anyone especially the people, Western or Eastern, just explaining what happened. Western Corps will do what will make them money and GCC monarchs will do what will keep them in power. But as long as Western Corps have hegemonic influence over vast regions and peoples, these regimes will never go away, they may be replaced with other similar like regimes that will do nothing for their people, but in essence change will not come.

Thats pretty obvious. If you submit or come to an agreement with the West, you will benefit from all the "good things" that the American empire offers: Pax American, security, advanced technology, advanced science and medicine, and so on. If you refuse to submit, you will suffer. That the way it works. Im not denying this, I am saying that "coming to an agreement" with the West its actually good. Turkey, GCC, Europe, Israel, South Korea, Japan,.. all of them have developed and modernized thanks to it.

You see dude there is something you guys fail to understand: its true that the West wants to impose its system on us, but there is nothing wrong about that. In a democratic system nobody can force you to use Western products, watch Western movies, wear Western clothes, eat Western food, drive Western cars, etc. The very same Western system offers you the weapons to destroy it peacefully from within. People just need to stop consuming all the Western-made stuff and those greedy corporations who only care about money will leave your country once they fail to make money. But that aint happening basically because people love Western materialism and Western way of life. Thats why people migrate into Western countries.

Anyway this conversation its kinda pointless. USA and the West are in decay. The liberal order is collapsing, the foundations of Western globalization are falling apart, isolationism, nationalism and nativitism are on the rise. Western societies are facing a growing polarization and their economies are unable to match the growth of India, Turkey or China. Sooner or later West will be defeated and Russians and Chinese will take over. DO you seriously believe then the world will be a better place? I seriously doubt it. I believe the world will miss this "benign" Western liberalism.

[khushal]

Russia is weak, it cant even control its own territory. It has learnt from its military expansionism failures, and China, all they do is trade deals with other nations. It seems like they are wise to the dangers of military expansionism. The US is so stupid that it occupies Afghanistan and the AFghan gov is doing trade deals with China, Iran, and India. Its like it got rid of the Taliban so China, Iran, and India can benefit. More evidence that US foreign policy is controlled by Defense Corps that just want to rob the US Treasury.

The World will be the same World. The only difference will be that Wealth will shift.

[Firdousi]

Russia is weak, it cant even control its own territory. It has learnt from its military expansionism failures, and China, all they do is trade deals with other nations. It seems like they are wise to the dangers of military expansionism. The US is so stupid that it occupies Afghanistan and the AFghan gov is doing trade deals with China, Iran, and India. Its like it got rid of the Taliban so China, Iran, and India can benefit. More evidence that US foreign policy is controlled by Defense Corps that just want to rob the US Treasury.

The World will be the same World. The only difference will be that Wealth will shift.

In 1890 USA became the largest economy in the world. Yet the USA continued with an isolationist foreign policy until WWII (they entered in WWI in the last phase). It took them half century to change their policy.. but they did. Sooner or later China will change its strategy and follow the same path that the USA did. Its a matter of time. But unlike USA, Chinese people are different, they don't believe in universal values nor their culture promotes human rights and cooperation between people of different races and regions. They are the "Middle Kingdom and everyone else must obey them. Dont get me wrong, I know for the American elites America comes first too, but at least in the liberal order weaker countries were allowed to share their thoughts and opinions in international institutions such as UN. I am used to deal with Chinese people due my own job. I have never been to China but met many of them in Hong Kong and Dubai. They are by far the most disgusting, merciless, obnoxious and greedy people i have ever met. Seriously I find it disturbing that China is emerging as the stronger superpower in the world.

The world won't be the same. It will be much more dynamic, violent, mean, inhuman, vibrant and yes and exciting but believe me it won't be "better". Its not only money "shifting" but also "power".

[Firdousi]

BTW its true that Russia is economically and culturally weaker than the West but still they managed to take advantage of the Western decline and imposed themselves on the West in Syria, Ukraine, Chechenya and Georgia. Putin is a paper tiger but he is smart enough to know how to fool Westerners and create chaos and mayhem in their countries. No wonder so many Westerners have a crush on him although they guy wants to destroy them. Thats admirable lol