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  • The inevitable collapse of Saudi Arabia

    I don't necessarily agree with this article but it is worth being discussed.

    The collapse of Saudi Arabia is inevitable

    Nafeez Ahmed
    Monday 28 September 2015 10:37 UTC
    5503 30Kgoogleplus82 44.1K



    Deep-rooted structural realities means that Saudi Arabia is indeed on the brink of protracted state-failure, a process likely to take-off in the next few years.

    On Tuesday 22 September, Middle East Eye broke the story of a senior member of the Saudi royal family calling for a “change” in leadership to fend off the kingdom’s collapse.

    In a letter circulated among Saudi princes, its author, a grandson of the late King Abdulaziz Ibn Saud, blamed incumbent King Salman for creating unprecedented problems that endangered the monarchy’s continued survival.

    “We will not be able to stop the draining of money, the political adolescence, and the military risks unless we change the methods of decision making, even if that implied changing the king himself,” warned the letter.

    Whether or not an internal royal coup is round the corner – and informed observers think such a prospect “fanciful” – the letter’s analysis of Saudi Arabia’s dire predicament is startlingly accurate.

    Like many countries in the region before it, Saudi Arabia is on the brink of a perfect storm of interconnected challenges that, if history is anything to judge by, will be the monarchy’s undoing well within the next decade.

    Black gold hemorrhage

    The biggest elephant in the room is oil. Saudi Arabia’s primary source of revenues, of course, is oil exports. For the last few years, the kingdom has pumped at record levels to sustain production, keeping oil prices low, undermining competing oil producers around the world who cannot afford to stay in business at such tiny profit margins, and paving the way for Saudi petro-dominance.

    But Saudi Arabia’s spare capacity to pump like crazy can only last so long. A new peer-reviewed study in the Journal of Petroleum Science and Engineering anticipates that Saudi Arabia will experience a peak in its oil production, followed by inexorable decline, in 2028 – that’s just 13 years away.

    This could well underestimate the extent of the problem. According to the Export Land Model (ELM) created by Texas petroleum geologist Jeffrey J Brown and Dr Sam Foucher, the key issue is not oil production alone, but the capacity to translate production into exports against rising rates of domestic consumption.

    Brown and Foucher showed that the inflection point to watch out for is when an oil producer can no longer increase the quantity of oil sales abroad because of the need to meet rising domestic energy demand.

    In 2008, they found that Saudi net oil exports had already begun declining as of 2006. They forecast that this trend would continue.

    They were right. From 2005 to 2015, Saudi net exports have experienced an annual decline rate of 1.4 percent, within the range predicted by Brown and Foucher. A report by Citigroup recently predicted that net exports would plummet to zero in the next 15 years.

    From riches to rags

    This means that Saudi state revenues, 80 percent of which come from oil sales, are heading downwards, terminally.

    Saudi Arabia is the region’s biggest energy consumer, domestic demand having increased by 7.5 percent over the last five years – driven largely by population growth.

    The total Saudi population is estimated to grow from 29 million people today to 37 million by 2030. As demographic expansion absorbs Saudi Arabia’s energy production, the next decade is therefore likely to see the country’s oil exporting capacity ever more constrained.

    Renewable energy is one avenue which Saudi Arabia has tried to invest in to wean domestic demand off oil dependence, hoping to free up capacity for oil sales abroad, thus maintaining revenues.

    But earlier this year, the strain on the kingdom’s finances began to show when it announced an eight-year delay to its $109 billion solar programme, which was supposed to produce a third of the nation’s electricity by 2032.

    State revenues also have been hit through blowback from the kingdom’s own short-sighted strategy to undermine competing oil producers. As I previously reported, Saudi Arabia has maintained high production levels precisely to keep global oil prices low, making new ventures unprofitable for rivals such as the US shale gas industry and other OPEC producers.

    The Saudi treasury has not escaped the fall-out from the resulting oil profit squeeze – but the idea was that the kingdom’s significant financial reserves would allow it to weather the storm until its rivals are forced out of the market, unable to cope with the chronic lack of profitability.

    That hasn’t quite happened yet. In the meantime, Saudi Arabia’s considerable reserves are being depleted at unprecedented levels, dropping from their August 2014 peak of $737 billion to $672bn in May – falling by about $12bn a month.

    At this rate, by late 2018, the kingdom’s reserves could deplete as low as $200bn, an eventuality that would likely be anticipated by markets much earlier, triggering capital flight.

    To make up for this prospect, King Salman’s approach has been to accelerate borrowing. What happens when over the next few years reserves deplete, debt increases, while oil revenues remain strained?


    As with autocratic regimes like Egypt, Syria and Yemen – all of which are facing various degrees of domestic unrest – one of the first expenditures to slash in hard times will be lavish domestic subsidies. In the former countries, successive subsidy reductions responding to the impacts of rocketing food and oil prices fed directly into the grievances that generated the “Arab Spring” uprisings.

    Saudi Arabia’s oil wealth, and its unique ability to maintain generous subsidies for oil, housing, food and other consumer items, plays a major role in fending off that risk of civil unrest. Energy subsidies alone make up about a fifth of Saudi’s gross domestic product.

    Pressure points

    As revenues are increasingly strained, the kingdom’s capacity to keep a lid on rising domestic dissent will falter, as has already happened in countries across the region.

    About a quarter of the Saudi population lives in poverty. Unemployment is at about 12 percent, and affects mostly young people – 30 percent of whom are unemployed.

    Climate change is pitched to heighten the country’s economic problems, especially in relation to food and water.

    Like many countries in the region, Saudi Arabia is already experiencing the effects of climate change in the form of stronger warming temperatures in the interior, and vast areas of rainfall deficits in the north. By 2040, average temperatures are expected to be higher than the global average, and could increase by as much as 4 degrees Celsius, while rain reductions could worsen.

    This would be accompanied by more extreme weather events, like the 2010 Jeddah flooding caused by a year’s worth of rain occurring within the course of just four hours. The combination could dramatically impact agricultural productivity, which is already facing challenges from overgrazing and unsustainable industrial agricultural practices leading to accelerated desertification.

    In any case, 80 percent of Saudi Arabia’s food requirements are purchased through heavily subsidised imports, meaning that without the protection of those subsidies, the country would be heavily impacted by fluctuations in global food prices.

    “Saudi Arabia is particularly vulnerable to climate change as most of its ecosystems are sensitive, its renewable water resources are limited and its economy remains highly dependent on fossil fuel exports, while significant demographic pressures continue to affect the government’s ability to provide for the needs of its population,” concluded a UN Food & Agricultural Organisation (FAO) report in 2010.

    The kingdom is one of the most water scarce in the world, at 98 cubic metres per inhabitant per year. Most water withdrawal is from groundwater, 57 percent of which is non-renewable, and 88 percent of which goes to agriculture. In addition, desalination plants meet about 70 percent of the kingdom’s domestic water supplies.

    But desalination is very energy intensive, accounting for more than half of domestic oil consumption. As oil exports run down, along with state revenues, while domestic consumption increases, the kingdom’s ability to use desalination to meet its water needs will decrease.

    End of the road

    In Iraq, Syria, Yemen and Egypt, civil unrest and all-out war can be traced back to the devastating impact of declining state power in the context of climate-induced droughts, agricultural decline, and rapid oil depletion.

    Yet the Saudi government has decided that rather than learning lessons from the hubris of its neighbours, it won’t wait for war to come home – but will readily export war in the region in a madcap bid to extend its geopolitical hegemony and prolong its petro-dominance.

    Unfortunately, these actions are symptomatic of the fundamental delusion that has prevented all these regimes from responding rationally to the Crisis of Civilization that is unravelling the ground from beneath their feet. That delusion consists of an unwavering, fundamentalist faith: that more business-as-usual will solve the problems created by business-as-usual.

    Like many of its neighbours, such deep-rooted structural realities mean that Saudi Arabia is indeed on the brink of protracted state failure, a process likely to take-off in the next few years, becoming truly obvious well within a decade.

    Sadly, those few members of the royal family who think they can save their kingdom from its inevitable demise by a bit of experimental regime-rotation are no less deluded than those they seek to remove.

    - See more at: http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns....9RRtGM0i.dpuf
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  • #2
    103 comments on the webpage above including:

    This poster thinks the writer is being overly negative. I partly agree. If the Saudis are smart they can deal with these long-term problems. The problem is the Saudis are basically backwards desert bedouin e.g. their fiasco and humiliation in Yemen:


    Mordhorst • 3 days ago

    More doom and gloom from Mr. Ahmed. He makes some good points when talking about structural and political problems of the kingdom, but his prediction that its fall is more or less imminent is basically based on two wrong assumptions:

    1. that SA is dumping oil on the market in order to secure domination the global oil market. Wrong - they do it to hurt Iran (and maybe also Iraq and Russia) during their sunni-shia proxy war.

    2. that SA can't survive the drop in income. SA only needs to survive the low oil price longer than Iran can and the huge financial reserves make that possible. They can rebuild their currency reserve later.

    But while both regimes are about as brutal in crushing internal dissent, the regime in Iran has already shown its ability to suppress an impoverished population. SA hasn't, they might face some kind of wahhabi version of the Iran revolution by their pampered citizens. And in the very long run, when the oil is gone, SA will be reduced back to being the waste land it is. If the government doesn't manage to finally develop their society to a sustainable level in the remaining years, which I rather doubt. But that clearly won't happen in the next ten years. Well okay you never know, sometimes dissent can explode quite rapidly.

    WhatTheFlux stEn • 4 days ago

    Some Arabian wag once said, my grandfather rode on a camel, my father rode in a car, I ride in a jet, my son will ride in a car, and my grandson will ride on a camel.

    MorganCourtenay • 4 days ago

    This is what happens when you build a country on oppression, brutality, greed and political and social hegemony. No matter how powerful you are, both internal and external factors can erode your power. The Saudi oil sheikhs and Royal Family can take comfort in the knowledge that their coming problems are largely self-inflicted.

    Judith Osterman • 5 days ago

    The US persuaded SA to weaken Russia, Venezuela, & Iran, primarily, by reducing their oil export income. If SA is unable to maintain a stable society, AND support the Moslem terrorist puppet network, then it makes sense for them to augment their assets by buying a large quantity of munitions & invading Yemen, which, I believe, they intend to keep. America may be coming to regard Saudi & its monarchy as a liability;their head-cutting ways are becoming notorious, here. What better way to make the problem go away than by staging a palace-coup-inspired color revolution. The appearance of change , leaving the substantive features of the state the same. BTW, The US of A is not just a rich, swaggering bully state, it is an empire, the largest & most powerful in history. They pull the strings, no matter how much they try to disguise that fact.
    The comments are quite interesting and go off on interesting tangents including Mao and China, Donald Trump, Algebra e.g:


    -con • 2 days ago
    The hindus invented the 0, not muslims.


    DEADP00L • 2 days ago
    Wrong again. India wasnt Hindu then and was very much a MUSLIM scientist that invented the concept. Also, Algebra itself is named after an ARAB Muslim man named Al-Jibran who gave you the very maths you utilize to teach to this very day Mathematics and equations. Stick it pal.



    My opinion:

    Saudi Arabia is far from collapse.

    The problem however is it is run by idiots.

    Simple-minded desert gypsies and fools, who have no idea of having a dynamic modern economy, regional stability as opposed to confrontation and dealing with dissent in a peaceful rather than draconian manner.

    The Yemen fiasco is just an example of how stupid these fools are.

    However if Saudi does what it needs to do it can survive and in fact flourish.
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    Comment


    • #3
      Saudis need to get education, stop being arrogant and racist, get rid of wahabism and stop being so lazy and fat, then only they can even come close to running the country, but I don't see this happening, because all of these bad things have become part of their culture and practice

      Comment


      • #4
        As long as the US needs the oil that is in the Arabian peninsula, the US will protect the house of Saud. If one can convince the US that it no longer needs that oil ie alternative fuels, then the house of Saud will fall.

        Comment


        • #5
          The new Saudi Borgias



          Cruel sex crimes have surged since King Abdullah died, and we can do nothing about it


          John R. Bradley

          John R. Bradley
          3 October 2015

          A young Saudi prince, Majed Abdulaziz Al-Saud, has apparently fled to the Wahhabi kingdom on his private jet after a bleeding woman was found trying to escape from his Los Angeles mansion. She filed sexual assault charges against him, claiming her injuries were sustained when he tried to force her to give him a blow job. Other alleged female victims have since detailed a three-day orgy of violence. But what are the chances they will have their day in court? The prince will certainly not be compelled by the Saudi royal family to return; and we can be equally sure that Washington will not hold its Saudi masters to account for facilitating his escape. Two Nepalese women imprisoned as sex slaves by a sadistic Saudi diplomat in New Delhi are unlikely to see justice either. Locked in his luxury flat for months, they were starved, tortured, raped and sodomised. The police described it as an open-and-shut case. But a few weeks ago he, too, was flown back to the Land of the Two Holy Mosques.

          Both these ****bags should be quite happy to be back in Saudi Arabia, where maids from impoverished countries, and western women who work in Saudi homes, have long complained of sexual harassment. During dinner at a Saudi friend’s house in Jeddah, my host — the gentle, pious son of a general in the Saudi army — told me his college friends were ‘giving him hell’ because he wouldn’t let them have their way with his adolescent Filipina maid. They simply could not fathom his refusal. That was a decade or so ago, and that generation of brats are now the sexually warped, slave-owning Saudi princes and diplomats as ubiquitous around the globe as the hate-preachers they fund.


          Saudi sexual depravity has been the stuff of legend for decades. Today, however, there are so many scandalous cases that it is difficult to keep track. One Saudi man has been questioned about an assault on an 11-year-old girl in London, and another arrested in the Philippines on human-trafficking charges. Both were freed, like the New Delhi monster, after claiming diplomatic immunity. Another, this time in cahoots with one of his wives, has evaded a litany of charges for enslaving a group of women in London.

          The recent upsurge in Saudi sex-and-slave scandals is one consequence of the death of King Abdullah in January, and the ascension to the throne of his half-brother Salman. For the first time since King Fahd, who spent most of his time whoring and gambling in Beirut, popped his clogs, the Al-Sudairi branch of the Saudi ruling family are back in charge. Under the (relatively) austere Abdullah, who hailed from a different branch of the family, Saudi scions had to watch their backs. Now there are no restraints on the most debauched and corrupt ruling clique since the Borgias.


          The failure of the international community to take a stand suggests that the brazen exploitation of diplomatic immunity has instilled in the Saudi royals a greater sense of impunity than ever. Even the most deranged liberal cheerleader of the Arab Spring could not sensibly envisage the emergence of a liberal, progressive regime to replace them. Indeed, with the rise of the Islamic State, the West is more terrified than ever that the House of Saud may fall. The jihadists have made no secret of their desire to see an Arabia without Saudi princes. And the kingdom is such a mishmash of tribal and sectarian hatreds and divisions that, were an uprising to occur, the chaos that would ensue would dwarf the combined slaughter of Iraq, Libya and Syria. The ramifications on the global economy of the loss of the Saudi oilfields, and the ensuing battle between Isis and Iran (and the West) for control, are likewise incalculable. Jordan and Bahrain, both Saudi client states, would fall within days.

          The Saudis, in short, have us pinned over the proverbial barrel. There is a tragic irony in that fact. For it was funding from Saudi Arabia that, in no small part, was responsible for creating the jihadist groups in Syria that morphed into Isis. The jihadists’ ideology is barely distinguishable from Riyadh’s Wahhabi religious establishment. And the jihadists also spend much of their spare time raping and enslaving non-believing women they happen across. Given this appalling state of affairs, one can but marvel at the Al-Sauds’ extraordinary capacity to survive. Last week, it was announced that the Wahhabi kingdom will head an important UN human rights committee. But instead of greeting the news with the howls of derision it merited, western leaders extended hearty congratulations.

          John R. Bradley’s books include Saudi Arabia Exposed: Inside a Kingdom in Crisis.





          1. Ironically, if this is true, though Abdullah was supposed to be a liberal or even "quasi-secular" (by Saudi standards) and the Sudairis are supposed to be more fundamentalist, it is under the more "Salafi" Sudairis that this Saudi sexual debauchery has escalated.

          2. Saudis are thugs, one of the best ways to deal with these thugs is to join facebook groups which condemn the abuse of the "royals" and shame them.

          I am quite frankly getting sick and tired of these animals.



          Some comments from readers:

          sidor • 3 days ago

          Historically Mecca belongs to Hashemite dynasty. They should get it back from the artificial wahhabite kingdom created after WWII by Jack Philby (sheikh Abdullah) for his buddy Saud.


          Dukeofplazatoro • a day ago

          Taki has long been writing about this loathsome bunch of degenerates as "camel drivers posing as princes" as they swan around Knightsbridge with their *****s and vulgar cars.It is noticeable that they have not lifted a finger to help their Muslim brothers fleeing Syria - the wrong kind of Muslim I suppose - indeed the opposite, since they have effectively sponsored Daesh / IS or whatever we're supposed to call it now. By that sponsoring them, they have made themselves responsible for the refugee / emigration problem which is now facing Europe. It is particularly galling to see our politicians and the Prince of Wales kow-tow to these hypocrites, and they are surely the best advert for fracking. Roll on the schadenfreude when they finally cop it.

          Gettingby •

          They are one of the most evil regimes on the planet, but since they give billions to the traitors and *****s that govern the western world we defend them. That makes the west nothing more than evil prostitutes. Even after they financed and their citizens attacked the US on 911 the longtime prostitute Bush family defended them and allowed the guilty, like in the article, to run home to escape justice.
          Last edited by Bengal_Tiger; 10-04-2015, 01:00 PM.
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          Comment


          • #6
            Let's assume Salman and his crew are ousted. Who is going to replace them? Other Saudis? How is that any better?

            Let us assume the entire Saudi family goes bust. What kind of political opposition does Saud have at the moment? Secular extremists like Raif Badawi and his supporters?

            Would you rather is secular extremists dominating the two holy mosques?

            Only other party capable of running Saudi are the scholars, the clerics. I'd rather see them ruling the country than Saudi royal family or the secular extremists.
            Originally posted by Firdousi
            Never talk with Afghans about politics. All their political knowledge is limited to conspiracy theories, political demonization and contradictions. No logic, no reason.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Shamlawar Khurasani View Post
              Let's assume Salman and his crew are ousted. Who is going to replace them? Other Saudis? How is that any better?

              Let us assume the entire Saudi family goes bust. What kind of political opposition does Saud have at the moment? Secular extremists like Raif Badawi and his supporters?

              Would you rather is secular extremists dominating the two holy mosques?

              Only other party capable of running Saudi are the scholars, the clerics. I'd rather see them ruling the country than Saudi royal family or the secular extremists.
              You mean the scholars and clerics who advise the current goverment? How is that any better.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Khostai View Post
                You mean the scholars and clerics who advise the current goverment? How is that any better.
                The scholars merely advise. That doesn't mean government does what they say. Besides, THOUSANDS of learned men and women are imprisoned and tortured for going overboard with the "advising".
                Originally posted by Firdousi
                Never talk with Afghans about politics. All their political knowledge is limited to conspiracy theories, political demonization and contradictions. No logic, no reason.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Shamlawar Khurasani View Post
                  Let's assume Salman and his crew are ousted. Who is going to replace them? Other Saudis? How is that any better?

                  Let us assume the entire Saudi family goes bust. What kind of political opposition does Saud have at the moment? Secular extremists like Raif Badawi and his supporters?

                  Would you rather is secular extremists dominating the two holy mosques?

                  Only other party capable of running Saudi are the scholars, the clerics. I'd rather see them ruling the country than Saudi royal family or the secular extremists.
                  I agree, the other saudis are no better, this s why I said they completely need to change their ways, but this will take 50-100 years, even if they start today

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Karachi View Post
                    I agree, the other saudis are no better, this s why I said they completely need to change their ways, but this will take 50-100 years, even if they start today
                    Not really, Saudi Arabia is already changing. Many of the "royals" or Saudi "princes" do not agree with extreme Wahabism especially the younger ones.

                    The elite of the country are now receiving modern education in the west where they live for a couple of years and see non-Wahabi societies which they become accustomed to. An Arab friend of mine told me of Saudi students who returned back to Saudi and found it almost quasi-traumatic not to see females on the street. Even for me when I have been to Saudi to see no females in a place like Medina was unnatural.

                    Many Saudis want change or to be a bit more relaxed e.g. like UAE, Qatar, Kuwait or even Jordan.

                    The Wahabis are fighting a losing battle.

                    Even internet threads e.g. on this forum on the problems of Saudi society embarass any Saudi (including the hundreds and thousands of elite Saudis resident in the west) and want them to avoid this embarassment as a backwards and barbaric society by wanting to combat the problems of Saudi society e.g. abuse of foreigners, oppression of women, Wahabism etc.
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                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bengal_Tiger View Post
                      Not really, Saudi Arabia is already changing. Many of the "royals" or Saudi "princes" do not agree with extreme Wahabism especially the younger ones.

                      The elite of the country are now receiving modern education in the west where they live for a couple of years and see non-Wahabi societies which they become accustomed to. An Arab friend of mine told me of Saudi students who returned back to Saudi and found it almost quasi-traumatic not to see females on the street. Even for me when I have been to Saudi to see no females in a place like Medina was unnatural.

                      Many Saudis want change or to be a bit more relaxed e.g. like UAE, Qatar, Kuwait or even Jordan.

                      The Wahabis are fighting a losing battle.

                      Even internet threads e.g. on this forum on the problems of Saudi society embarass any Saudi (including the hundreds and thousands of elite Saudis resident in the west) and want them to avoid this embarassment as a backwards and barbaric society by wanting to combat the problems of Saudi society e.g. abuse of foreigners, oppression of women, Wahabism etc.


                      The non-Wahhabi Saudis you seem to admire so much are these people:

                      Saudi involved in drunk driving in Dubai:


                      Drunk driving in Canada:
                      A diplomat from Saudi Arabia was pulled over in Ottawa Tuesday night on suspicion of drunk driving, but refused to provide a breath sample before he was released.


                      Saudis who live abroad are involved in rape:


                      Saudi who lived in America is gay and use to be on Ashley Madison:


                      They organize gay parties when they go back to their own country:
                      Religious police arrested several people at two parties in Jeddah on suspicion of homosexuality, a crime in the conservative kingdom.


                      Gay Saudi murderer:


                      You see, Tandulkar, only Saudi's you can relate to, are these degenerates who go abroad and do all sorts of nasty stuff.

                      These royal perverts and degenerates are the opposition to the current ruler and are advocates of change and liberalization.

                      It seems, you, as you have confessed now, are a pervert like them who stares at women and feels uncomfortable even in MADINA when you can't see any women you can stare at.

                      This reveals why you hate Saudi Arabia so much. You have no problem with them torturing Bengali servants, raping and killing people, drunk driving etc.

                      Your whole opposition to Saudi is the religious restrictions on degenerates and perverts.


                      While other Bengalis consider Madina as a spiritual place, you go there in the hope of seeing strange women.

                      You should learn from this spiritual Bengali who sang an English nasheed about Madina:

                      Last edited by Shamlawar Khurasani; 10-05-2015, 01:33 PM.
                      Originally posted by Firdousi
                      Never talk with Afghans about politics. All their political knowledge is limited to conspiracy theories, political demonization and contradictions. No logic, no reason.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Saudi activist fears spate of young protesters to be executed imminently

                        #SaudiStruggle



                        The high profile case of a Saudi youth sentenced to death has sparked fears a host of protesters may be executed if he is beheaded




                        A file photo of Ali al-Nimr, a Saudi youth facing the death penalty for taking part in reform protests (AFP)



                        Alastair Sloan

                        Monday 5 October 2015 08:40 UTC

                        Saudi Arabia, Qatif, Executions

                        Show comments

                        Human rights activists from Saudi Arabia have expressed fear to Middle East Eye that the highly publicised planned crucifixion of a young Saudi man could pave the way for others to be executed who were minors at the time of their arrest.

                        Ali al-Nimr, who was 17 at the time of his alleged offences, was convicted in May last year on charges relating to participation in a 2012 protest in Qatif, Eastern Province. The alleged offender, whose paternal uncle is a prominent Shia cleric, has exhausted all avenues of appeal and King Salman’s signature is all that remains for his execution to be approved.

                        "It is feared that his execution is likely to set a precedent for another six detainees - two of which were also children at the time of their offences" said Ali Adubisi, Director of the European Saudi Organization for Human Rights, which is based in Germany.

                        Dawood Hussien Al-Maroon and Abedallah al-Zaher were also under eighteen when they were arrested in 2012, but were sentenced to death last year on similar charges. Both were tried in secret and are still being held by the state.

                        Al-Maroon is understood to have been initially arrested by police in May 2012 aged 17, but released shortly afterwards on the understanding he would observe the ongoing Shia protests and pass information back to the security services.

                        Al-Maroon has said he refused to do so and eight days later he was re-arrested at Dammam Central Hospital while under-going treatment for a traffic accident.

                        While in detention, Al-Maroon claims his hands and feet were beaten, that he was forced to lie on his stomach and was trampled by security officials, and was beaten on a part of his leg which had been injured when security forces had used live ammunition against him during a street protest in January 2012.

                        Al-Maroon's claims, published by the European Saudi Organization for Human Rights (ESOHR), also include allegations of security officials using abusive language against the victim's religious beliefs, being hung upside down for extended periods of time and electrocutions. He was also held in solitary confinement for a month, and later signed a forced confession that was used to convict him in January 2014. At the time of his initial arrest he was 17.

                        Al Zaher faced trial in the same court as al-Maroon and was 17 at the time of his death sentence being handed down.

                        Execution for crimes commited by minors is illegal under international law, notably The Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC), to which Saudi Arabia acceded in 1996.

                        It is conventional for Saudi death sentences to be carried out in secret, with the families only notified after the sentence has carried out.

                        Al-Nimr has also claimed he was tortured before his trial, and forced into signing a false confession by the Saudi security services, who arrested him in February 2012 after he too took part in protests in the Shia-dominated Eastern Province.

                        “He was out there for Shia rights,” his brother told MEE, “He went because his school friends were going, because the older boys were going, because everyone was going. He was just a child at the time, he didn't really understand the risk.”

                        Al-Nimr's court judgment was described by Human Rights Watch as having “serious flaws,” including a prolonged pre-trial detention period without any review process, allegations of torture by security officials before the trial, and prevention of access to a lawyer.

                        When he later told the court he had been tortured and wanted to retract his confession, the teenager was told “religious scholars have ruled that retracting a confession for a discretionary crime is not acceptable.”

                        ESOHR Director Adubisi told MEE that “human rights violations carried out by the Saudi government are always justified through ‘Islamic law,’ when in reality the Islamic religion has been distorted significantly by the Saudi government."

                        “This use of Islam cannot continue. Where in Islamic law there is a text or interpretation that says this religion has the right to exercise torture?” Adubisi added.

                        The charges against Al-Nimr include “breaking allegiance with the ruler,” “going out to a number of marches, demonstrations, and gatherings against the state and repeating some chants against the state,” and setting up a website using his smartphone to incite demonstrations.

                        “Saudi Arabia has been on an execution spree in 2015, but beheading a child offender whose trial was unfair would be an appalling new low,” said Joe Stork, deputy Middle East director. “Unfair trials of Shia citizens amount to no more than a legal veneer for state repression of their demands to end long-term discrimination. The authorities should not compound their repression by killing a child offender.”

                        - See more at: http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/sa....WSv5jrfb.dpuf





                        Ali al-Nimr's younger siblings.



                        WARNING: Graphic image of Yemenis beheaded and crucified by the Saudis, link.



                        *Even if you go by classical Islamic texts the people accounted their rulers including the story of 'Umar (RA) and the woman who accounted him, and the man who when 'Umar (RA) said who would correct him if he went astray, said "we will" and then dangled his sword.

                        Merely protesting has been labelled as "bagghi" (rebellion/sedition) by the Wahabis who are following the post-Ummayad based pseudo-fiqh of the traditionalists.

                        Saudi Arabia needs to change.

                        Saudi Arabia picks what parts of "Islam" (pseudo-Islam) it wants to apply and discards what it doesn't.

                        Even the "Saudi" flag is viewed by many Muslims as desecrating the kalimah (declaration of faith) due it being used inappropriately.




















                        The declaration of faith, the holy Kalimah, put on a cake to be eaten by Saudis and Pakistanis.





                        The Saudi regime uses the sacred kalima on the national flag, the kalima of 1.5 billion Muslims is kicked by people on a football.

                        The Saudis need to change.

                        They need to end their backwards barbaric tribal ways, Wahabism and bedouin nationalism.
                        * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Shamlawar Khurasani View Post
                          The non-Wahhabi Saudis you seem to admire so much are these people:

                          Saudi involved in drunk driving in Dubai:


                          Drunk driving in Canada:
                          A diplomat from Saudi Arabia was pulled over in Ottawa Tuesday night on suspicion of drunk driving, but refused to provide a breath sample before he was released.


                          Saudis who live abroad are involved in rape:


                          Saudi who lived in America is gay and use to be on Ashley Madison:


                          They organize gay parties when they go back to their own country:
                          Religious police arrested several people at two parties in Jeddah on suspicion of homosexuality, a crime in the conservative kingdom.


                          Gay Saudi murderer:


                          You see, Tandulkar, only Saudi's you can relate to, are these degenerates who go abroad and do all sorts of nasty stuff.

                          These royal perverts and degenerates are the opposition to the current ruler and are advocates of change and liberalization.

                          It seems, you, as you have confessed now, are a pervert like them who stares at women and feels uncomfortable even in MADINA when you can't see any women you can stare at.

                          This reveals why you hate Saudi Arabia so much. You have no problem with them torturing Bengali servants, raping and killing people, drunk driving etc.

                          Your whole opposition to Saudi is the religious restrictions on degenerates and perverts.


                          While other Bengalis consider Madina as a spiritual place, you go there in the hope of seeing strange women.

                          You should learn from this spiritual Bengali who sang an English nasheed about Madina:

                          The current rulers are involved in the perverted things you mention.
                          Royals flout puritanical laws to throw parties for young elite while religious police are forced to turn a blind eye

                          In Martha’s Vineyard, they sure know how to punish a prince. Saudi prince, Bader Al Saud, 26, killed Orlando Ramos, 37, in a crosswalk while driving drunk without a valid license. His punishm…




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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Shamlawar Khurasani View Post
                            The scholars merely advise. That doesn't mean government does what they say. Besides, THOUSANDS of learned men and women are imprisoned and tortured for going overboard with the "advising".
                            Those are not the advisors thos imprisoned "advisors" are the ones that you call secular extremist.
                            Last edited by Khostai; 10-05-2015, 05:30 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Khostai View Post
                              Those are not the advisors thos imprisoned "advisors" are the ones that you call secular extremist.
                              You have heard on the news about a few atheist homo's in Saudi jails and you think they just arrest those people.

                              Most political prisoners in Saudi are actually Islamic scholars and activists who are against the current corrupt regime.

                              Some of them are extremists who are like al Qaeda and Isis but there are many sensible people who simply refuse to accept the holy land to be governed by corrupt family of degenerates.
                              Originally posted by Firdousi
                              Never talk with Afghans about politics. All their political knowledge is limited to conspiracy theories, political demonization and contradictions. No logic, no reason.

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