Bangladesh protesters denounce killing of blogger

[Toramana]

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2015/02/bangladesh-protesters-denounce-killing-blogger-150227154935437.html

Bengal-Tiger what do you think about this incident? Should not this Jumath-i-Islami be banned?

[HalloIsBack]

as i know jamati islami is based or build on the idology of moslembrothers
moslembrothers infect entire islam world with their sick disease which is hard to get off
so down with moslembrothers and their followers!

[Bengal_Tiger]

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2...154935437.html

Bengal-Tiger what do you think about this incident? Should not this Jumath-i-Islami be banned?

1. I don't know much about the blogger.

You cannot kill people you disagree with, you debate them.

To be honest apparently there was some grotesque anti-Islamic content and insulting the prophet (solAllahu 'alaih wa sallam). What pleasure do these atheists get from insulting a man who died over 1,000 years ago?

You don't see someone like me insulting the Hindu religion or Christian beliefs.



2. The group claiming responsibility for this attack wasn't Jamaat e "Islami" but some other group.


On a slightly different but somewhat related point, here are some of my personal views on Jamaat e "Islami".

3. Jamaat e "Islami" should essentially be called Jamaat e Pakistani.

I believe that parties of different ideological backgrounds should be allowed except for those preaching violence or hatred for a particular section of the population (e.g. religious minorities such as Buddhists or Hindus, ethnic minorities such as Chakmas and Manipuris or even practising Muslims).

Therefore going by that I would not have a problem with a communist party or even a "Muslim" Brotherhood style party participating in politics peacefully.

The problem with Jamaat e Pakistani is this.

1. They are loyal to Pakistan and not Bangladesh.

The Jamaat in Pakistan and Bangladesh have behind the scenes the same leadership and the Bangladeshi wing will always put Pakistani interests first.
They are more of a Pakistani nationalist organization than an Islamic one.

Some of their ignorant rank and file may not understand this but this is what their senior leadership are about.


2. They are a party of war criminals.

They have carried out horrific war crimes but despite this are backed by ignorant fundamentalists from other countries such as Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the Arab world who merely hear them saying the word "Islam" and automatically assume they are good.


3. They work against Bangladeshi national interests.

They campaign for damage to their "own" country e.g. banning Bangladeshi workers from Saudi Arabia or even getting them expelled (leaving millions of Bangladeshi men, women and children reliant on their remittance starving).

They have also lobbied the Erdogan regime in Turkey to stop selling arms products to Bangladesh.

Though they deny this publically, most educated people know they are still opposed to the existence of an independent sovereign Bangladesh and are angry with Bangladesh gaining its freedom.


SHOULD THEY BE BANNED?


Ideally yes, but then the problem is Jamaat contain a wide group of different fundamentalists in them including some extreme radicals who are more inclined to violence as opposed to the moderates who don't.

If they stay unbanned they try to work within the system.

If they are banned then the radicals may dominate and go for a violent option.

Already they are using the powerful "Islamist" network in the Muslim world and west to lie and portray a clamp down on them against as a "war on Islam", and they could even receive some sort of military support after lying to ignorant Muslim regimes.

After independence in 1971 they claimed Bangladesh was occupied by Hindus and mosques were being destroyed (nonsense) and now they claim we are an Indian puppet state (nonsense, we are China's second largest buyer of weaponry), with ignorant Saudis, Turks and others lapping all this wild propaganda up.

Keeping them legal avoids them going underground and seeking a more violent path.

However I personally would want them banned.

Even the very name "Jamaat e Islami" is offensive to most Bangladeshis, as the name "Nazi party" would be offensive to most Jews.

So even if they got banned and then regrouped under a different name (which they did before) at least the very name of the party which carried out massacres in 1971 and helped with mass rape does not exist.


Jamaat e Pakistani and the future?

- In the long run I think they are weakening.

In the 70s they had around 20% of votes now they are on less than 5% and are consistently declining over the past few decades.

Most Bangladeshis hate them.

Most Islamic scholars in Bangladesh hate them.

A fact not known to many Muslims and "Islamists" outside of Bangladesh.

Their disproportionate power stems from their traditional Saudi backing (as well as their backing by Pakistan since they are essentially a Pakistani nationalist organization) which has given them millions and millions.

However the Saudis seem to be decreasing their support to the Jamaat.



Saudi ruler, Salman. The Saudis have traditionally been Jamaat's strongest supporters.

The more Bangladesh grows economically i.e. the richer it becomes, the more powerful it is, and the less able Saudi and others will be to interfere in Bangladesh's affairs including promoting Jamaat.

In Muslim countries as a whole the wealthier and more educated a society is the less inclined to backwards fundamentalism they are, so Bangladesh's economic growth is the greatest threat to their power.

[Bengal_Tiger]

America and the Jamaat

America supports the Jamaat and wants their participation in politics.

This should not be a surprise because many educated Muslims are aware of how the US likes to use radical "Islamic" groups to further its own agenda.

Having a relatively strong "Islamist" party in Bangladesh also acts as leverage - by the US and others - against mainly Hindu India.

The EU however is totally opposed to the Jamaat.



The BNP and Jamaat

The BNP is the second biggest party in Bangladesh and is led by the corrupt and generally uneducated Khaleda Zia who wants to make her notoriously corrupt son Tariq her successor, thus making the party a de facto monarchy.

Many amongst the educated Bangladeshi middle class view the BNP as being de facto controlled by the very wealthy Jamaat.

The Jamaat infiltrates the BNP and controls the electorally much larger party which does not have the stigma of being war criminals as per this theory.



The pro-Pakistan Khaleda Zia, former prime minister and leader of the BNP. She has been requested by western governments e.g the EU to severe all ties with the Jamaat e "Islami" terrorist organization but persistently refuses.



The Pakistani-born Tariq Zia, the son and likely successor to Khaleda Zia. Tariq Zia is notoriously corrupt and is one major reason the Awami League won the election previous to the controversial illegitimate "elections" of last year. He is very pro-Pakistan and close to radical Islamists.

If he ever comes in to power in Bangladesh again he is likely to make it a military-intelligence extension of Pakistan and try to destabilize India by sponsoring separatists and terrorists.



* * *

The Jamaat and Pashtuns.

The Jamaat is essentially a Pakistani nationalist organization masquerading as a Bangladeshi political party.

It has carried out no major media campaigns or demonstrations on behalf of Muslims next door in Burma who are experiencing a campaign of ethnic cleansing with 0.1 million Rohingyas fleeing in the past few months.

Instead it focuses on terrorism and killing Bangladeshi civilians with petrol bombs.

What connection does the Jamaat have to Pashtuns?

Well since it is controlled by the Jamaat in Pakistan it is important to know that the Jamaat in Pakistan has had ethnically "Pashtun" leaders such as its current one who is from Dir.



Sirajul Haq, a "Pashtun" from Dir who heads the Jamaat e "Islami" party.

However many Pashtun nationalists would consider any "Pashtun" that works for the Jamaat as a traitor to Pashtun culture and an agent of Pakistanization/Punjabization.

So Pashtun nationalists and Bangladeshi nationalists have similar problems and goals e.g. overcoming the Jamaat e "Islami" party.

In Afghanistan the Afghans have to deal with the Pakistani-backed Taliban, in Bangladesh the Bengalis have to deal with the Pakistani-backed Jamaat.

Our problems and struggles are similar, so we should work together.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Summary

This is what I believe Jamaat e "Islami" (Pakistani) should do to make themselves acceptable to the Bangladeshi nation.


1. Admit their war crimes in 1971 and apologize.

2. Change their name.

2. Expel all war criminals from their party (very difficult since many of their top leaders were traitors and war criminals).

3. Affirm that 1971 was a successful war of freedom which has resulted in a better Bangladesh, including one which is more religious than before 1971.

4. Apologize to the Hindu community in Bangladesh for their war crimes and have a senior leader from the Hindu community who liaises with them, so that the Hindu community can feel safe that the Jamaat is still not a genocidal terrorist organization out to murder Hindus.

5. Apologize to the Bangladeshi nation for lobbying against Bangladesh e.g. lobbying Turkey to apply a defence equipment ban on us, stopping Bangladeshis from earning a living in Saudi etc.

6. Cut off all ties with the Jamaat in Pakistan, links with the "Muslim" brotherhood are not as bad because they are not inherently anti-Bangladeshi.

Also not an essential demand but something which would be good to see is:

7. An apology to Saudi Arabia for lying to them and stealing their money e.g. Jamaati leaders are alleged to have taken money from gulf Arabs for Rohingya refugees and put it in their own pockets.

[marwat]

Summary

This is what I believe Jamaat e "Islami" (Pakistani) should do to make themselves acceptable to the Bangladeshi nation.


1. Admit their war crimes in 1971 and apologize.

2. Change their name.

2. Expel all war criminals from their party (very difficult since many of their top leaders were traitors and war criminals).

3. Affirm that 1971 was a successful war of freedom which has resulted in a better Bangladesh, including one which is more religious than before 1971.

4. Apologize to the Hindu community in Bangladesh for their war crimes and have a senior leader from the Hindu community who liaises with them, so that the Hindu community can feel safe that the Jamaat is still not a genocidal terrorist organization out to murder Hindus.

5. Apologize to the Bangladeshi nation for lobbying against Bangladesh e.g. lobbying Turkey to apply a defence equipment ban on us, stopping Bangladeshis from earning a living in Saudi etc.

6. Cut off all ties with the Jamaat in Pakistan, links with the "Muslim" brotherhood are not as bad because they are not inherently anti-Bangladeshi.

Also not an essential demand but something which would be good to see is:

7. An apology to Saudi Arabia for lying to them and stealing their money e.g. Jamaati leaders are alleged to have taken money from gulf Arabs for Rohingya refugees and put it in their own pockets.

well every second muslim country face problems due to the likes of Jammat islami, we don't have much choice but to accept them as long as they do no poses threat to national security like TTP or Haqqani network. if they are working inside democracy it is a good sign. i believe jammat e islami will be acceptable in society if they apologize for their war crime, but if they are unwilling, then as a society we should move on for the better future. i believe jummat islami should be given space if they are no more violent and does not act like proxy for pakistan, it will bring the religious harmony,peace and will make our goal easier to achieve. well hope for the best of Bengali muslims. Nationalist Pashtun of Pakistan enjoy very good relation with Bangladesh

[Toramana]

Bengal-Tiger, you are spot on. And marwat as well. Jumath-i-Islami is actually a Pakistani nationalist party of the Islamist brand. It is a very poisonous party.

But one thing. Perhaps there should be constitutional provisions that would require all parties to not undermine the democratic and pluralistic nature of states .

[Bengal_Tiger]

well every second muslim country face problems due to the likes of Jammat islami, we don't have much choice but to accept them as long as they do no poses threat to national security like TTP or Haqqani network. if they are working inside democracy it is a good sign. i believe jammat e islami will be acceptable in society if they apologize for their war crime, but if they are unwilling, then as a society we should move on for the better future. i believe jummat islami should be given space if they are no more violent and does not act like proxy for pakistan, it will bring the religious harmony,peace and will make our goal easier to achieve. well hope for the best of Bengali muslims. Nationalist Pashtun of Pakistan enjoy very good relation with Bangladesh

Really? Could you elaborate please.

Your opinion is a valid one, i.e. from what I understand JI (Jamaat e "Islami") should be allowed to participate in politics but anything beyond that should be treated as a law and order, or security issue.

That is they can promote their ideas but they can't engage in violence and killing and that becomes a legal and criminal issue.

I know one Bangladesh (not very religious at all) who has this opinion, that they should be able to participate in elections and if people don't like them they won't be voted in power.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Bengal-Tiger, you are spot on. And marwat as well. Jumath-i-Islami is actually a Pakistani nationalist party of the Islamist brand. It is a very poisonous party.

But one thing. Perhaps there should be constitutional provisions that would require all parties to not undermine the democratic and pluralistic nature of states .

1. Certain European countries constitutionally ban extremist parties e.g. the Nazi party is banned in Germany.


2. JI was banned in Bangladesh in the past but due to Saudi pressure (there are possibly up to 2 million Bangladeshi workers in Saudi) were unbanned.

3. Bangladesh is a 3rd world country with corrupt politicians and administrative problems so it is difficult to enforce what would otherwise be very wise suggestions, even the current ruling centre-left Awami League had coalitions with the Jamaat in the past!

4. In an ideal world I would like these terrorists to be banned but the world isn't perfect and we may have to live with them unfortunately.

However here are some actions that need to be taken against them.

- Bangladeshi diaspora, based in the west, need to write to the Saudi foreign ministry and to Salman Al-Saud the current head of the Saudi tribe and ruler of Saudi Arabia to end their support for Jamaat e "Islami".

If 1,000 Bangladeshis write to the Saudis to stop supporting the Jamaat e "Islami" terrorist organization, it will have an effect.



The Saudi foreign ministry, thousands of Bangladeshis need to write to them to call them to end their support for the Jamaat e "Islami" terrorist organization.

If a facebook group with at least 100,000 Bangladeshis calling for the banning of Jamaat e "Islami" exists that would be powerful pressure on the terrorist organization.


- The Bangladeshi government need to tell Arab governments to ban Jamaat e "Islami" in their countries and to stop allowing them to come on TV shows to spread their propaganda e.g. Jamaatis (who cultivate ties with the Arab world) go on Egyptian TV shows and promote their lies and propaganda.


- The Bangladeshi left/centre left need to work with mainstream Islamic scholars such as the Deobandis and Sufis to lobby Muslim governments and organizations in the wider Muslim world to reject the Jamaat.

What many people don't realize is that when Jamaat was banned from contesting elections by the Bangladeshi courts it was done by a Sufi Islamic group raising a case against them!


- Pakistan will never abandon Jamaat e Islami because it is an arm of Pakistan in Bangladesh, it is like having a division of the Pakistani military in Bangladesh. They will never be abandoned.

If however Pakistan ceases to exist and Balochistan, Sindh and Pakhtunkhwa gain their freedom insha'Allah then by default the Jamaati threat to Bangladesh ceases to exist, because they are more of a Pakistani nationalist party than a genuine Islamic party (they are also confused theologically e.g. they embrace aspects of Salafism but are pro-Iranian Shia government too).

The best way to deal with the Jamaat is for Bangladesh to continue growing economically and for its people to be more educated and especially for its women to continue their integration in the job market and become wealthier and more educated.

In the long run this Saudi-backed terrorist organization is doomed.



Salman Al-Saud the current head of the Al-Saud tribe and ruler of Saudi Arabia. For decades the Saudis have been backing the Jamaat e "Islami" terrorist organization in Bangladesh, the question is will they one day reject this terrorist organization?