Erdogan Watch

[Bengal_Tiger]

1. ERDOGAN TO KILL COUP SOLDIERS?



Erdogan is thinking of killing people involved in the coup attempt and imposing the death penalty.

He has been criticized for "retrospective" justice.

To explain imagine cannabis was legal in 2010 and someone smoked it.

Then in 2016 it became illegal with a 3 month prison sentence, that person who smoked it in 2010 could not be punished with a new law made in 2016.

This is what Erdogan might be thinking of doing.

Link: Erdogan ready to reinstate death penalty.


2. ERDOGAN ARRESTS AROUND 6,000 & FIRES OVER 20,000.


15,000 people are being sacked in the education sector,

link.

Also:

Almost 20,000 FETÖ members in judiciary, army and police dismissed

DAILY SABAH on Twitter: "Almost 2, FETO members in judiciary, army and police dismissed https://t.co/LgSJANUJCy"

*Sabah is a pro-Erdogan, pro-AKP newspaper.





Erdogan's mass arrest of military personnel is going to cripple the Turkish army and set it back perhaps at the very least a decade.


3. NO FUNERALS FOR COUP-MAKERS KILLED DURING THE COUP.

No funeral services to be provided for pro-coup figures killed during coup attempt,Turkey's religious authority says

DAILY SABAH on Twitter: "Almost 2, FETO members in judiciary, army and police dismissed https://t.co/LgSJANUJCy"


This is particularly disgusting.

The coup makers were despite their faults human beings and Muslims and thus deserve a funeral.

Even in Bangladesh when Jamaati war criminals were executed they were given an Islamic funeral despite their complicity in the murder of around 300,000 people in 1971 and mass rapes.

Islamically Erdogan is wrong in this as well because even according to Islam criminals who carry out the gravest crimes and sins have to be buried.



OPINION: I think that Islamically Erdogan is doing some very dangerous things, or what people would say on a "karmic" level, and this could rebound against him.

Turkey is a divided society.

Teachers are respected people in society who are in charge of tens if not hundreds of students.

If 15,000 teachers are sacked that maybe 1.5 million students (if it's teacher to student ratio of 1: 100 i.e. one teacher has multiple classes of over 20-30 students) affected.

These young teenagers will see their educators losing their jobs, being impoverished. Families will lose their breadwinners. People will face poverty.

Now is the time for reconciliation and dialogue in Turkish society and if there should be clamping down on anyone let it be restricted only to those who were directly involved in the coup.

I think we are going to enter a period of profound instability in Turkey now.

I think this man should replace Turkey as the head of the country and oversee a process of national reconciliation and unity, not division:



Devlet Bahceli.









Bahceli, the MHP leader is the eldest of all the party leaders in Turkey and his organization enjoys support from all sectors of Turkish society be it from rural conservative Anatolians to secular Aegean Turks, to even Kurds and yes believe it or not even Armenian Christian MHP supporters (some whom I have personally spoken to).

He can unite.

Erdogan is a divisive figure, leading his country down a dangerous path, a path which may lead to even greater suffering and chaos.

[Bengal_Tiger]

By the way as this is an Afghan/Pashtun forum, a lot of Afghans/Pakhtuns can speak Dari/Farsi, so below is a Farsi (Persian) language article from Iran's Tasneem magazine.

They interview former senior Turkish general, Hassan Atilla Ugur, who says the coup was organized by the Americans using the Gulenists and was to stop Turkey from shifting to the Russia-Iran axis.



Hasan Atilla Ugur.



مصاحبه تسنیم با مقامی که در "لیست سیاه" کودتاگران ترکیه بود/ «در صورت پیروزی کودتا روابط با ایران به*طور کامل قطع می*شد»

شناسه خبر: 1134198 سرویس: بین الملل
۲۹ تير ۱۳۹۵ - ۱۱:۴۶
حسن آتیلا اوغور - ترکیه - Hasan Atilla Uğur
سرهنگ بازنشسته و رئیس سابق اطلاعات ژاندارمری مناطق مختلف ترکیه معتقد است در صورت پیروزی کودتاگران آنها تمام روابط ترکیه با ایران را قطع می*کردند.

به گزارش خبرنگار خبرگزاری تسنیم در ترکیه، در حالی که هنوز تبعات و آثار کودتای شب 15 جولای در ترکیه همچنان ادامه دارد، ژنرال*ها و افسران عالی*رتبه بازنشسته که اکنون به*عنوان کارشناسان این عرصه فعالیت می*کنند اطلاعات و تحلیل*های قابل توجهی از ماجرا ارائه می*دهند.

«سرهنگ حسن آتیلا اوغور» سرهنگ بازنشسته ارتش، و رئیس سابق اطلاعات ژاندارمری مناطق مختلف ترکیه که خود در سال 2008 از طرف جریان دولت موازی (جریان گولن) به*اتهام اقدام برای کودتا علیه دولت دستگیر شده و به 29 سال زندان محکوم شده است، در مصاحبه با خبرنگار خبرگزاری تسنیم در استانبول با بیان اینکه در صورت پیروزی کودتاگران آنها تمام روابط ترکیه با ایران را قطع می*کردند به بررسی جوانب مختلف این کودتا پرداخت.

سرهنگ بازنشسته اوغور شخصیتی برجسته و شناخته شده در ترکیه است چرا که یکی از بحرانی*ترین پرونده*های امنیتی این کشور یعنی پرونده عبدالله اوج*آلان و بازجویی*های او را به*عهده داشته است. او همچنین فرماندهی اطلاعات عملیات سرکوب شورش*های تجزیه*طلبانه در جنوب شرق این کشور را نیز به*عهده داشته است و در مجامع امنیتی و نظامی ترکیه به*عنوان یک استراتژیست نظامی شناخته شده به شمار می*آید.

وی در مصاحبه با تسنیم با تصدیق این نکته که کودتای نافرجام دو شب پیش ترکیه به دست گروه گولن انجام شده است، گفت: این گروه در واقع تبدیل به یک گروه تروریستی شده است و از 20 سال گذشته تمام تلاش خود را برای ورود به مناصب مهم و کلیدی کشور انجام داده است. این گروه به*طرز آشکاری در راستای منافع آمریکا قدم برمی*دارد و دارای همکاری با سازمان سیا است. طبیعی است که چنین گروهی وظیفه بسیار مهم نفوذ در چهارمین یا پنجمین ارتش بزرگ جهان یعنی ارتش ترکیه را به*عنوان اصلی*ترین هدف خود قرار دهد. آنها برای رسیدن به این هدف با برنامه*های گام به گام از سالها پیش از مدارس نظامی آغاز کرده*اند.

حسن آتیلا اوغور با تأکید بر اینکه در دوره خدمتش در مناصب اطلاعاتی و نظامی و بعدها در مورد خطرات این جریان در سیستم نظامی و اطلاعاتی این کشور هشدار داده بود به بیان خاطره خود از حضور در صحنه کودتا در روز حادثه پرداخت: من روز جمعه با روزنامه ینی شفق که از روزنامه*های نزدیک به دولت است مصاحبه*ای انجام دادم، یعنی یک روز پیش از کودتا. در آن مصاحبه گفتم که با توجه به اینکه عملیات پاکسازی گولنی*ها از ارتش آغاز شده است هر لحظه امکان کودتا توسط آنها وجود دارد. خبرنگار از من پرسید "یعنی به*نظر شما آنها دارای چنین توانی هستند؟" که من در پاسخ گفتم "توان آنها بسیار بیشتر از آن چیزی است که شما تصور می*کنید، چرا که گروه تروریستی گولن چنان گروهی در دست امپریالیزم آمریکایی است که هیچ مشابهی ندارد. آنها چنان خود را اختفا می*کنند که حتی من به*هنگام دستگیری بعضی افراد دچار تعجب می*شوم، به این دلیل خودم را معیار نشان می*دهم چون 9 سال علیه آنها گزارش نوشته و دنبال آنها بوده*ام.



کودتاگران دنبال من بودند

سرهنگ بازنشسته اطلاعاتی ارتش با ابراز اینکه روز حادثه در آنکارا بوده و آن روز به دیدار یکی از همکاران قدیمش که در مهمانخانه ارتش در آنکارا بستری بوده است رفته و ساعتها در آنجا بوده و ساعت 9 و نیم شب آنجا را ترک کرده است، ادامه داد: همراه یکی از دوستانم از آنجا بیرون آمده و به محل اقامتمان رفتیم. ساعت 11 شب گروهی از کودتاچیان به محل مهمانخانه ارتش حمله کردند و یک سرگرد و یک افسر از کودتاگران با شکستن در اتاقی که من قبلاً در آن به عیادت دوستم رفته بودم به*دنبال من می*گردند. دلیل این اقدام آنها این است که من پس از آزادی*ام از زندان در مورد خطر آنها برای اینکه بیداری عمومی ایجاد کنم در همه رسانه*ها حاضر شده و مطلب نوشته*ام و گزارش*های مختلف حاضر کرده*ام، برای همین من یکی از اهداف آنها بودم.

کودتاگران دارای رابطه با پ.ک.ک. هستند

بازجوی پرونده عبدالله اوج*آلان با تأکید بر اینکه گروه کودتاگر با گروهک پ.ک.ک. دارای ارتباط است، گفت: آنها در بالاترین سطح روابط با یکدیگر هستند.

اوغور برای این مطلب خود نوشته*های عبدالله اوج*آلان در کتاب "یادداشت*های امرالی" را به*عنوان سند یاد کرده ادامه داد: اطلاعاتی در دست دارم که نشان می*دهد کودتاگران با هسته رهبری پ.ک.ک. در کوه قندیل دارای ارتباط هستند و امکان فعالیت آنها در سراسر کشور و فضای بی*خطری برای آنها را پدید آورده است.

حسن آتیلا اوغور با بیان اینکه کودتاگران به*دلیل لو رفتن طرح کودتا را که قرار بود در ساعات بامداد روز 16 جولای انجام دهند جلوتر کشیده و در ساعات پایانی شب 15 جولای آن را اجرا کرده*اند، در پاسخ به این سؤال که کودتا در صورت پیروزی چه تأثیری بر روابط ترکیه و ایران می*توانست بگذارد، گفت: در صورت پیروزی تأثیر بسیار منفی*ای بر روابط دو کشور می*توانست داشته باشد. بدون هیچ شکی آنها تمام روابط با ایران را اعم از دیپلماتیک، تجاری و سیاسی قطع می*کردند. همین وضعیت در مورد وضعیت رابطه با روسیه هم رخ می*داد. آنها تنها با دستور امپریالیسم غرب حرکت می*کردند و در این صورت نتیجه مشخص بود. یکی از اصلی*ترین وظیفه*های جریان گولن مهیا کردن شرایط برای اجرای پروژه خاورمیانه بزرگ است. اینها تولیدات یک اتاق فرمان جهانی هستند.

حسن آتیلا اوغور در مورد تأثیرات کودتا در سیاست داخلی نیز با تأکید بر اینکه موجب ایجاد شکاف*های بزرگی در سیاست کشور می*شد، گفت: تعرضی به حزب جمهوری خلق نمی*کردند. اما در مورد حزب حرکت ملی دولت باغچلی را از ریاست حزب کنار گذاشته و یکی از افراد نزدیک به جریان گولن را بر سر حزب می*آوردند. آنها در صورت پیروزی یک پاکسازی خونین را در کشور تدارک می*دیدند که افراد جبهه لائیک و طرفداران آتاترک، ملی*گراها و اولکوجوها اصلی*ترین اهداف آن به شمار می*رفتند.

http://www.tasnimnews.com/fa/news/1395/04/29/1134198

1. If Turkey does indeed move out of the Western orbit and in to the Russia-China-Iran axis this ultimately has some (though nothing major) implications on Afghanistan.

Russia, Iran and China are all opposed to a Taliban-take over (that is proxy Pakistan rule) and so is Turkey (partly because of the Turkic ethnic groups in Afghanistan opposed to the Taliban such as the Uzbeks).

However if the "axis of resistance" is strengthened with the inclusion of Turkey this makes the prospect of a Taliban take over even more improbable than it is now as well as Turkey rejecting the US desire for it to sponsor radicals, "Islamists", Pan-Turkists in Russia's soft underbelly of central Asia and the Caucasus.


2. There has been talk in America of kicking Turkey out of NATO, if that were to ever happen, NATO becomes far weaker (not Turkey as the Turks, even the Kemalists, know as Muslims they were never really liked by NATO or would be supported by them but were purely to be used/exploited against Russia).

The post-US multi-polar world order might arrive sooner than we thought.

With it more stability and the inability of the US to invade and destroy Muslim countries such as Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya etc.

[Firdousi]

1. If Turkey does indeed move out of the Western orbit and in to the Russia-China-Iran axis this ultimately has some (though nothing major) implications on Afghanistan.

Russia, Iran and China are all opposed to a Taliban-take over (that is proxy Pakistan rule) and so is Turkey (partly because of the Turkic ethnic groups in Afghanistan opposed to the Taliban such as the Uzbeks).

However if the "axis of resistance" is strengthened with the inclusion of Turkey this makes the prospect of a Taliban take over even more improbable than it is now as well as Turkey rejecting the US desire for it to sponsor radicals, "Islamists", Pan-Turkists in Russia's soft underbelly of central Asia and the Caucasus.


2. There has been talk in America of kicking Turkey out of NATO, if that were to ever happen, NATO becomes far weaker (not Turkey as the Turks, even the Kemalists, know as Muslims they were never really liked by NATO or would be supported by them but were purely to be used/exploited against Russia).

The post-US multi-polar world order might arrive sooner than we thought.

With it more stability and the inability of the US to invade and destroy Muslim countries such as Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya etc.

Not really. I have many Turkish friends and some of them are hardcore Kemalists. Most of them believe that the reason behind Europe rejecting Turkey is Erdogan and his closet pan-islamists agenda. Poor naive kids lol

Kemalism has ruined Turkish identity. Many Turks don't know about their identity: they are Western wannabes, but its pretty obvious West hates them, no matter how secular or democratic they are. They are a confused nation, struggling to find her real and true identity.

[Manzareh]

You did the same with Saddam...labelled him a tyrant, dictator and proclaimed he is not fit to run his country, killed him and destroyed the whole middle east giving birth to millions of radicals. Then you used the same narrative with Gaddafi, whats the circumstance is Libya now? and again with Mubarak in Egyt, replacing him with a bigger coward. Now you want to use the same propaganda against Erdogan thinking Turkey will somehow be better without him. Some people have really short memories.

[Insight]

Coup fails, Erdogan crushes the Kemalist factions of the Turkish Army (the ones who want to support Assad, Russia, and Iran), and now [MENTION=1058]Bengal_Tiger[/MENTION] tries to spin Erdogan's victory as a favorable to the "Russian-Iranian axis) BABABAHAHAH

BAHAHAHAHAHAH LOL LOL LOL LOL

WOWOOW MAAAAAAANNNNNN you are HILARIOUS

[Firdousi]

Coup fails, Erdogan crushes the Kemalist factions of the Turkish Army (the ones who want to support Assad, Russia, and Iran), and now [MENTION=1058]Bengal_Tiger[/MENTION] tries to spin Erdogan's victory as a favorable to the "Russian-Iranian axis) BABABAHAHAH

BAHAHAHAHAHAH LOL LOL LOL LOL

WOWOOW MAAAAAAANNNNNN you are HILARIOUS

If really USA was behind the coup then you should expect an approach toward the Russian-Iranian axis by Erdogan sooner or later.

It does not matter that Kemalists support Assad. Politics is a tricky issue specially in the Middle East. Turkey supported Gulf States against Assad but at the same time they supported MB in Egypt against GCC. How do explain this? Its politics, buddy. You can do or have many approach toward different things.

[Insight]

If really USA was behind the coup then you should expect an approach toward the Russian-Iranian axis by Erdogan sooner or later.

It does not matter that Kemalists support Assad. Politics is a tricky issue specially in the Middle East. Turkey supported Gulf States against Assad but at the same time they supported MB in Egypt against GCC. How do explain this? Its politics, buddy. You can do or have many approach toward different things.

US has been opposed to the Erdogan and the Turkish government primarily due to their opposition to US inaction regarding Assad regime, Iranian presence in Syria and Iraq, and to Russia's military intervention on the side of Assad.

US actually has been offering to militarily coordinate with Russia regarding Syria. This was big news a week ago. The Pentagon and many US foreign policy pundits have opposed this potential agreement because it strengthens Assad. US foreign policy and the Pentagon have opposed this agreement because it renders all Syrian Opposition groups as terrorists.

I believe Erdogan will be more emboldened regarding his policy of backing Syrian opposition groups. As he purges the Turkish military of Kemalists, it is becoming increasingly in tune with this policy.

Leaked proposal: US offering Russia military pact in Syria

Leaked proposal: US offering Russia military pact in Syria
Bradley Klapper, Associated Press 7:36 a.m. EDT July 14, 2016

At least 11 civilians, including three children, were killed in air strikes on a rebel-held town in Syria's northwestern Idlib province, a monitor said. Video provided by AFP Newslook
AP SYRIA DIPLOMACY A USA DC

(Photo: Alex Brandon, AP)

PARIS - The United States is offering Russia a new military pact against the Islamic State and al-Qaida in Syria, according to a leaked U.S. proposal.

If finalized, the arrangement could dramatically alter America’s role in the Arab country’s five-year civil war.

The document published by The Washington Post calls for joint bombing operations, a command-and-control headquarters and other synchronized efforts. U.S. and Russian officials with expertise in intelligence, targeting and air operations will “work together to defeat” the extremist groups, the eight-page paper states.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, who was to discuss the proposal in Russia’s capital later Thursday, declined to comment.

“I’m going to Moscow, meeting with President (Vladimir) Putin tonight,” Kerry told reporters in Paris. “We’ll have plenty of time to talk about it and I’ll give you all a sense of where we are.”

Such a partnership would undercut months of U.S. criticism of Russia’s military intervention in Syria. And it would put the U.S. alongside Syrian President Bashar Assad’s chief international backer, despite years of American demands for Assad to leave power.

USA TODAY

Inside look at U.S.-led coalition's deadliest single attack on ISIL

Russia would be getting what it has wanted since intervening in Syria in late September: An international alliance of sorts. Washington previously rebuffed Moscow’s requests for military cooperation, accusing the Russians of using anti-terrorism objectives as a pretext for protecting Assad’s position. The U.S. also says Syria’s military and Russia’s air force have repeatedly violated truces with moderate rebel groups backed by the U.S. or its allies.

U.S. officials said no agreement with Moscow has yet been reached. Prospects for such a deal are unclear.

“We’re not going to comment on details of documents that have not been approved or agreed to,” said a senior State Department official, who wasn’t authorized to speak on the matter and demanded anonymity.

The proposed, U.S.-Russian “Joint Implementation Group” would be headquartered near Amman, Jordan. At its most basic level, the former Cold War foes would share intelligence and targeting information. But they “should coordinate procedures to permit integrated operations,” if the U.S. and Russia decide such operations are in their interests.

Russia would confine air strikes to vetted targets and not let Syrian forces bomb “designated areas.” Some exceptions apply.

USA TODAY

Islamic State made Ramadan 2016 the bloodiest ever

The military partnership is part of what U.S. officials are terming a final offer to Moscow. In exchange, the U.S. wants the Russians to pressure Assad into ending a bombing campaign against moderate militant groups and civilian populations, and allowing unfettered aid to besieged, rebel-held areas. Washington also wants Russia’s help in forcing Assad to start a political transition that would ultimately end his family’s four-decade hold over the country.

Russia supports the vague idea of “transition,” but has never publicly spoken of Assad having to resign.

The proposal would address one of the most persistent problems with efforts to enforce a ceasefire in Syria: the Nusra Front, al-Qaida’s Syria affiliate. The group is engaged in a variety of local alliances with other rebel groups the U.S. and its Arab allies want shielded by the so-called cessation of hostilities. And Nusra’s fighters are often embedded with such groups on the battlefield or move between various fighting formations.

For that reason, the U.S. has almost entirely avoided bombing Nusra targets in recent months. Russia hasn’t hesitated. But in taking out Nusra forces, the U.S. says Russia also has killed hundreds of moderate, anti-Assad fighters and civilians — undermining chances for peaceful diplomacy.

Thursday’s talks in Moscow are scheduled fewer than three weeks before an August ultimatum by President Barack Obama’s administration for diplomatic progress. All signs augur poorly for a breakthrough in a war that has killed as many as a half-million people since 2011, contributed to a global migration crisis and spawned IS’ international expansion.

Fighting rages near Aleppo, Syria’s largest city. Assad has reasserted control over several areas of the country he had once lost. Humanitarian aid deliveries are sporadic and grossly insufficient. And counterterrorism campaigns against the IS and al-Qaida show no end in sight, meaning any peace would only be partial.

Two months ago, Kerry said the transition had to start on Aug. 1, or Syria and its backers are “asking for a very different track.” But any Plan B has remained undefined beyond vague hints of a military intervention involving Saudi troops. The White House and Pentagon have resisted a greater U.S. role.

Much of Washington is wary about working too closely with Russia. The U.S. doesn’t want to be seen as entrenching Assad, whom American officials have referred to as a “butcher” and “mass murderer.” Russia’s bombers also have attacked anti-Assad rebel groups that have received weapons, training and other forms of support from the U.S. and allies such as Saudi Arabia — whose foreign minister Kerry met in Washington earlier this week.

And a dissent cable signed by 51 State Department officials last month showed a sizeable part of America’s diplomatic establishment believing a U.S. military response against Assad’s forces was necessary, given Moscow’s increased leverage as a result of its intervention.

Opposition to the administration’s newest Syria plan is shared by a significant number of officials at the State Department, Pentagon and U.S. intelligence community, according to several American officials.

But beyond reaching out to Russia, the administration has few other options right now. Suggestions of U.S. force don’t carry much weight, given the various, unfulfilled threats throughout the war — from Obama’s declaration five years ago that Assad’s days were “numbered” to his vow of a military response if chemical weapons were used, only to back down in 2013.

[Bengal_Tiger]

If really USA was behind the coup then you should expect an approach toward the Russian-Iranian axis by Erdogan sooner or later.

It does not matter that Kemalists support Assad. Politics is a tricky issue specially in the Middle East. Turkey supported Gulf States against Assad but at the same time they supported MB in Egypt against GCC. How do explain this? Its politics, buddy. You can do or have many approach toward different things.

1. Erdogan has already started shifting towards the Russians and Iranians.

a: He has apologized to Putin for the shooting down of the Russian plane.

b: The Iranians were the quickest state in denouncing the coup as Erdogan is in talks with the Syrians on patching up with relations with them.

Putin has been phoning Erdogan to support him, America has been threatening him with expulsion from NATO.

2. Erdogan is in a weak position now and has also started to try and mend ties with the Israelis.

Israel and Turkey have announced a reconciliation deal to end a six-year diplomatic standoff that started when Israeli naval commandos shot dead nine Turkish activists travelling on an aid flotilla making for the Gaza coast.

A deal negotiated in Rome on Sunday will restore full ambassador-level relations.

Israel and Turkey end six-year standoff | World news | The Guardian

This was a few weeks back.

Also:

Palestinians have expressed dismay at Turkey's normalization of ties with Israel, with one Palestinian Authority official calling the deal a political trick by which Ankara and Tel Aviv were using Gaza to serve their interests.

“The Turkish president wanted to get Ankara out of its international isolation, which was caused by his policies," the daily Jerusalem Post quoted what it described as a senior Palestinian official as saying. ..

"It was sad to see him (Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan) chase after Israel in order to secure a weak deal," the unnamed Palestinian Authority official said.

PressTV-Israel-Turkey deal dismays Palestinians

3. Erdogan is also trying to restore relations with Syria:

Turkey needs to normalize relations with Syria, says PM Yıldırım - DIPLOMACY



The fact that Erdogan is now trying to fix up relations with the Syrians is one of the key reasons the Iranians and Russians are supporting him now and spoke out against the failed coup.

Turkey needs to normalize relations with Syria, says PM Yıldırım

ANKARA – Anadolu Agency


Turkey needs to normalize relations with Syria, says PM Yıldırım
Prime Minister Binali Yıldırım vowed on July 13 that Turkey will eventually normalize relations with Syria, saying such a move was necessary amid ongoing efforts to restore diplomatic ties with Israel and Russia.

“We will expand the circle of friendship as far as possible. This is our aim. We will expand the circle of friendship inside and outside the country. We have already begun to do this. We have returned our relations with Israel and Russia to normal. I am sure that we will return to normal relations with Syria as well. We need that. Syria and Iraq need to reach stability for success in the fight against terror,” Yıldırım said at a meeting of ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) provincial leaders in the capital Ankara.

Turkey needs to normalize relations with Syria, says PM Yıldırım - DIPLOMACY


Yildirim the new prime minister was handpicked by Erdogan and put in to this position to replace the controversial Davutoglu.

It is no coincidence that after Erdogan's regime starts trying to improve ties with Russia and Syria that there was a failed army coup.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Not really. I have many Turkish friends and some of them are hardcore Kemalists. Most of them believe that the reason behind Europe rejecting Turkey is Erdogan and his closet pan-islamists agenda. Poor naive kids lol

Kemalism has ruined Turkish identity. Many Turks don't know about their identity: they are Western wannabes, but its pretty obvious West hates them, no matter how secular or democratic they are. They are a confused nation, struggling to find her real and true identity.

Turks, including Kemalists, are not really interested in the EU or becoming part of the west, though they are interested in having the highest levels of socio-economic development.

From 2014:

According to a recent survey conducted by Turkish research company TNS Piar, the desire of Turks to join the European Union has dropped to an all-time low.

The survey found that only 28 percent of Turks think that Turkish membership to the EU would be "a good thing", while 39 percent thinks joining the union would be bad and 25 percent stated that it would be neither good nor bad, the other 8 percent refused to answer the question.

Opinion poll shows Turkish support for EU membership at record low - Daily Sabah


Turks be they conservatives or Kemalists are not stupid. They know Christian Europe fundamentally does not like them, the sons of the Muslim Ottomans and this includes Kemalists.

Kemalism has ruined Turkish identity. Many Turks don't know about their identity: they are Western wannabes, but its pretty obvious West hates them, no matter how secular or democratic they are. They are a confused nation, struggling to find her real and true identity.

Yes, but regardless of their faults, Turkey is far more prosperous and advanced than either Bangladesh or Afghanistan. Though we can make comments about Turkey, Turks are in a position to make far more critical comments about Bangladeshis or Afghans.

[Insight]

[QUOTE]

1. Erdogan has already started shifting towards the Russians and Iranians.

a: He has apologized to Putin for the shooting down of the Russian plane.

b: The Iranians were the quickest state in denouncing the coup as Erdogan is in talks with the Syrians on patching up with relations with them.

You already know the Turkish PM clarified his remarks that Turkey will not talk to Assad, but you choose to discuss his remarks before that. It is easy to see now that he said that out of fear of a pending coup. That militant secularist Turkish military faction was Pro-Assad/Pro-Russia/ and Pro-Iran. The Turkish government is purging that faction out of the armed forces.


The Turkish government has always maintained diplomatic contacts with Iran and Russia (trade and business ties) despite backing opposing sides in Syria. Talking doesn't translate to being strategic allies.

2. Erdogan is in a weak position now and has also started to try and mend ties with the Israelis.

The Turkish government is in a very strong position now, and is exploiting the failed coup to purge the military of the remaining militant secularists.Please explain how that is weak. Man, you can't just throw words around like that without elaborating.

Turkish-Israeli reconciliation agreement is due to convergent interests primarily with their opposition to Iran, Russia, and Hezbollah presence in Syria.

3. Erdogan is also trying to restore relations with Syria:

Turkey needs to normalize relations with Syria, says PM Yıldırım - DIPLOMACY



The fact that Erdogan is now trying to fix up relations with the Syrians is one of the key reasons the Iranians and Russians are supporting him now and spoke out against the failed coup.

Turkey needs to normalize relations with Syria, says PM Yıldırım - DIPLOMACY


Yildirim the new prime minister was handpicked by Erdogan and put in to this position to replace the controversial Davutoglu.

It is no coincidence that after Erdogan's regime starts trying to improve ties with Russia and Syria that there was a failed army coup.

Assad must go before Syria can change, Yildirim says | General Haberleri

ASSAD MUST GO BEFORE SYRIA CAN CHANGE, YILDIRIM SAYS


Yildrim clarified his remarks that Assad must go a few days later, but yeah that doesn't fit your narrative so you refused to tell @Ferdousi about that. Assuming I didn't point out this intellectual dishonest, you were purposefully misinforming Ferdousi

Again, you KNOW that Turkish PM Yildirim clarified his remarks (assuming you were just googling for these articles), but because his clarification which rules out any contact with Assad (they want to remove him) doesn't fit your narrative, well you just disregard it LOL


Actually, the remarks you have shown point to the fact that Turkey was trying to stave off a military coup. The US wanted the Turkish gov to work with Russia and to stop working against Assad. That is probably why Yildrim first stated that he wants to restore ties (Erdogan had knowledge of the pending coup). They were trying to prevent the coup.

[Firdousi]

Turks, including Kemalists, are not really interested in the EU or becoming part of the west, though they are interested in having the highest levels of socio-economic development.

From 2014:



Opinion poll shows Turkish support for EU membership at record low - Daily Sabah


Turks be they conservatives or Kemalists are not stupid. They know Christian Europe fundamentally does not like them, the sons of the Muslim Ottomans and this includes Kemalists.



Yes, but regardless of their faults, Turkey is far more prosperous and advanced than either Bangladesh or Afghanistan. Though we can make comments about Turkey, Turks are in a position to make far more critical comments about Bangladeshis or Afghans.

Turkey has become a prosperous economy and a regional power under Erdogan´s leadership. Before that, they were begging at the European table, with a broke economy.

Believe it or not, Kemalists are dumber than you think. Just because they are secular it does not mean they are smarter or something. Their inferiority complex clouds their mind.

Nobody wants to be part of the EU. Even Europeans are leaving it. Its falling apart. Its a matter of time.

[Bengal_Tiger]

From various sources and analysts. I usually post sources and quotes to support my statements, but I no longer feel obliged to do that considering the constant personal attacks on me and trolling, so I will simply update the thread. Anyone who wishes to see the source for various statements or points is welcome to respectfully ask me and I am happy to help.


1. The USA was behind the coup.

2. The coup plotters had extensive plans on the post-coup regime including which officers would control, not just governmental positions but even posts like manager of Turkish airlines.

3. The coup plotters were anti-Kurdish and were planning to charge Erdogan with being too gentle/soft on the Kurdish insurgency, though Erdogan has obliterated Kurdish towns in the south east.

This fanatical and psycophatic hatred for Kurds or anything to do with the existence of a Kurdish identity is a product of Kemalism and has been transferred to the Turkish nationalist and slightly Xenophobic (racist anti-Arab, anti-Kurdish) Gulenists.

4. The hypocrisy of the west has been highlighted across different media in their thinly-veiled support for the failed coup.

5. Upon Iranian advice Erdogan will maintain supporters and the public in town squares across the country as in 1953 in Iran after the first coup failed a few days later the second coup succeeded.

However the difference now with 1/3 of the army leadership now in prison it will be difficult for a coup to be carried out.

6. There are claims that Russian intelligence informed Erdogan of the imminent coup a short time before the coup started to take place.

7. The Turkish perception of the coup is totally different to that in the west. In Turkey the focus is on the around 300 people dead (more than all the terrorist attacks in France, Charlie Hebdo, Nice etc) and the military bombing and killing its own people.


Make no mistake, the fascist Kemalist-Gulenist partnership that wanted to carry out the coup if they had succeeded would have been a total catastrophe.

- A reversion to the dark days of Kemalism with the genocide (cultural and physical of Kurds).

- The sabotage of democracy and thus subjugation of the Turkish people and their will as expressed in elections.

- A military dictatorship.

The vast majority of Turks are against the failed fascist Kemalist-Gulenist coup including the greywolf leader, Devlet Bahceli.



Devlet Bahceli. The eldest political party leader in Turkey and head of the MHP and Turkey's greywolves. Bahceli celebrated Putin's decision a few years ago to close all Gulenist schools in Russia and his greywolves support Erdogan against the coup.

If there is another attempted coup in Turkey, greywolves may clash with Gulenist-Kemalist soldiers. The greywolves outnumber the Gulenists/Kemalists, Bahceli alone has 2.2. million followers on Twitter.

The greywolves also have followers the length and breadth of Turkey from Tekirdag in the west to Gaziantep in the east and from Rize in the north to Mersin in the south. The Turkish army would not be able to withstand a mass greywolf (bozkurt) uprising against them if another coup took place.



Turkish man with the greywolf (MHP) flag and greywolf (Bozkurt) salute.



Greywolves with the greywolf (Bozkurt) salute.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Turkey's failed coup and other Muslim countries.

This is my opinion/analysis.

- Saudi Arabia: The Saudis are angry with Erdogan as he has slowly started reconciling with Assad (including reports of secret talks with the Syrians in Algeria) as part of his rapprochement with Iran and Russia.

The ex-amir of Qatar claimed that the UAE and Saudi Arabia were pro-coup.

If the Kemalist-Gulenist alliance had taken over Turkey it would have been bad news for Saudi Arabia. The Kemalists are racist and Islamophobic and hate Arabs. The Gulenists are nationalists that want Turkish domination of the Muslim world and Turks to supplant Arabs as leaders of the Muslim world, plus they also have the Kemalist-originated hatred of Arabs which is pervasive in modern Turkish society. They would have restricted relations with Saudi Arabia including the billions of dollars of "green money" the Saudis and the gulf Arabs had given profusely to Erdogan and others to help bring Turkey closer to Islam and the Muslim world.

Anyway Saudi Arabia is run by essentially very unintelligent people and their obsession with destroying Iran is not going to happen. The war in Syria in real terms is over and everyone knows the Assad, Iran, China, Russia axis has won.

Erdogan or no Erdogan, Assad has won in Syria.

However Erdogan is fundamentally better for the Saudis as he is less racist, less anti-Arab than either the Gulenists or Kemalists who both hate Arabs and would have shut the door on any Arab influence in Turkey.


Egypt: The Egyptians would have been delighted to have seen the coup succeed more than any other country in the Muslim world. They have blocked a UN statement condemning the coup.

However they will still be happy that Erdogan is far weaker now no matter how many people he throws in to jail.



Sisi, will be laughing at Erdogan's troubles in Turkey.



Iran: In contrast to Egypt, Iran was the most anti-coup country in the Muslim world. They need Erdogan to carry out a rapprochment by Turkey with Iran and Russia something which the pro-American Gulenists are argued would have stopped.

Iran was the quickest country to condemn the coup and it's reported Iran has advised Erdogan to keep Turks in the country's town squares to prevent another failed coup.



Turk on right and Georgian on left. Khamenei is an ethnic Azeri Turk whilst Erdogan's family are "Muchairlar" (immigrants) from Georgia.


Pakistan: Pakistan has been ass licking Erdogan's regime and will probably ban Gulen schools at the behest of Erdogan. Will this cause problems between Kemalists & Gulenists and Pakistan if the former return to power? Who knows? Turkish society is fed a very propagandized and sentimental message of eternal Turkish-Pakistani brotherhood and how Turks have to be grateful to Pakistan for its support during Turkey's war of independence in the 1920's (despite Pakistan not even existing back then, which shows how propagandized all this brainwashing is).

Anyway whoever is in power, Erdogan, Gulen, Kemalists or anyone else all Turks will support ethnic Turks in Afghanistan against Pakistan's proxies the Taliban.


Iraq: Probably more than any other country in the Muslim world, Iraq has been the biggest immediate beneficiary of this failed coup as Erdogan has already withdrawn Turkish troops from Iraq which had been an Iraqi, Iranian and Russian demand.

This signals the demise of Erdogan's neo-Ottomanist project in the middle east. Though even I feel neo-Ottomanism is relevant in the Balkans to protect the beleaguered Muslim communities there who face the threat of genocide from Christian Europeans e.g. Bosnia as we saw in 1992.


Indonesia: Doubt they care too much apart from being relative passive speculators.

Malaysia: Same as neighbour and rival Indonesia.

Azerbaijan: I do not know what the Azeris make of this but if anything the Azeris have a soft spot for the more nationalistic Kemalists than Erdogan since for Kemalists the Azeris being nominal Shias is irrelevant whereas for Erdogan it is an issue. Despite this I think it will be business as usual between Ankara and Baku, though Erdogan's rapprochement with Russia and Iran may spell the end of Baku's desire for a "reconquista" of Nagorno-Karabakh.

Central Asia: Probably indifferent. The central Asian Turkic states are somewhat resentful of the big brother arrogance of the Turks who dream of creating a Turkish-dominated Turkic union of sorts.

Central Asian states also know all too well about the Gulenists and may be happy at seeing their failure in Turkey.

Bangladesh: Turkey has withdrawn its ambassador from Bangladesh and there is no Turkish ambassador to Bangladesh to this day. I have not read of any Bangladeshi foreign office statement condemning the coup or any statement on the failed coup. Something I am almost certain would have happened a few years ago.

Erdogan is a supporter of Jamaat e Islami terrorists and war criminals in Bangladesh. His regime used the pretext of their supposed opposition to the death penalty to criticize Bangladesh's execution of militants and war criminals. This was though Pakistan has executed hundreds of people this year with Turkey keeping silent.

Now with Erdogan talking of killing the coup plotters it will be difficult for Erdogan to oppose execution of Jamaati war criminals on the basis of opposition to the death penalty.

The Erdogan/Turkish support for war criminals also made Bangladesh intellectuals start getting closer to Armenian intellectuals. One example is this: Bangladeshi historian: Two genocides, two peoples, one pain.

Whilst Dhaka has been ignoring Turkey's provocations it has maintained its dignity e.g. responding to Turkey's withdrawal of its ambassador from Bangladesh by withdrawing its ambassador from Turkey.

Bangladesh is on track to have the second highest rate of economic growth of any major economy with tens of billions being spent on infrastructure and other projects. I doubt a single penny of this will go to any Turkish company, so Turkey has lost out billions in alienating Bangladesh.





Malaysia is Bangladesh's best friend in the Muslim world.

The best friend of Bangladesh in the Muslim world is Malaysia. Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan are all treacherous and unstable south west Asian regimes and societies with a degree of racism towards Muslims from outside south west Asia ("middle east).

Bangladesh's best friend is China, then Japan, then South Korea, then Malaysia, so Bangladesh will probably continue to focus on ties with them.

However Erdogan is now far more weaker than before and if the Turkish economy tanks he could be out in a few years. Not to mention the Kurdish insurgency.



Gulenist, International Hope School in Dhaka.

The Erdogan regime may demand Dhaka close this school. As Erdogan's regime supports ISIS and other Wahabi terrorists as well as supporting Jamaat e Islami terrorists and war criminals in Bangladesh, the Bangladeshi government should tell Erdogan to F*** OFF!

Dhaka is angry with Erdogan and will be in no mood to hear nonsense or demands from this loud-mouthed fool.

Though I don't like the Gulenist movement I hope the Hope School is not closed down in Dhaka and Bangladesh should strongly warn Erdogan and his regime of any attempted interference in our internal affairs and harming education in Bangladesh. We are not Pakistan and will not bend over to Erdogan and close Gulenist schools at a click of Erdogan's fingers.


Algeria: Algeria, the most pro-Bangladesh country in the Arab world. They are apparently facilitating secret talks between Syria and Turkey in Algeria. The Algerian government hate Erdogan and view him as destabilizing the Muslim world and supporting Wahabis and terrorists. However Algeria is way too strong for Erdogan to try and interfere there. The Algerian government most probably supported the coup and would have been happy to see Erdogan removed, however at the same time they want the rapprochement between Turkey and Russia, Iran, Syria that the Americans are trying to stop.


Afghanistan: Afghans have a very positive opinion of Turkey and Turks and are big beneficiaries of Turkey in terms of education, schools in Afghanistan as well as training of the military and police. Afghans would like to see a peaceful and stable Turkey. The Turkic communities of Afghanistan e.g. Uzbeks, Turkmens and the racially Turco-Mongoloid Hazaras are supported by Turkey against the pro-Pakistan Taliban.



Comment: It will be enjoyable seeing Erdogan squirm and struggle for survival in the next few years after all the destruction he caused in Syria by ruining the country and supporting Wahabis and terrorists in Syria, Libya, Egypt, Bangladesh and elsewhere.

Karma has hit Erdogan.

I believe Turkey should ultimately remove Erdogan and for 6-9 months have a national unity government headed by Devlet Bahceli.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Victims of torture in the massive purge by the Erdogan regime in Turkey.



Staff Colonel Nuri Gayir.



His knee caps.



Fatih Yildiz.



Colonel Gokhan Eski.



Sergeant Gokhan Teyfik Gocer.



Lieutenant Aytac Akcura

Torture in Turkey: New evidence | Turkey Purge

Thousands of Turkish soldiers 'RAPED and STARVED' as punishment for failed Turkey coup

THOUSANDS of Turkish soldiers are being raped, starved and left without water, according to Amnesty International.

Amnesty International claim Turkish soldiers raped and starved after failed coup | World | News | Daily Express

[Bengal_Tiger]

Turkish police keeps 86-year-old woman in detention

by Turkey Purge | Aug 5, 2016 | Today in Crackdown | 0 comments

Turkish police keeps 86-year-old woman in detention



When police failed to find Lawyer Muhammet Cakir at home during a raid, they detained 86-year-old woman, his mother, and have been keeping her in detention for several days in southern province of Hatay to ensure capture of his son.

Hatay Governor told media that an investigation has been launched into Cakir, the owner of now defunct local newspaper, Irade, over his alleged links to ‘Gulenist network.’ Irade has been among dozens of media outlets that have been shutdown by a government decree after the Turkish authorities declared three-month emergency rule.

Cakir, who has been in Europe, penned down an article in Vocal Europe, denouncing and rejecting charges leveled against him.
Dudu Cakir, an ailing old woman now has been held by police in detention. Critics say government crackdown has no limits, target so many people who have no link or connection to the failed coup attempt.
So far more than 70,000 public servants, judges, military and police officials, teachers and other officials have been either dismissed, sacked or suspended. More than 15,000 people have been detained until today.

Turkish police keeps 86-year-old woman in detention | Turkey Purge

Erdogan is using Cakir's mother as a hostage so he will turn himself in.