Paris massacre #Not in my name

[Shapur]

How many khutbah's of masjid al haram have you heard so far?

A few but I don't keep a record..

[Shapur]

France attacked Islamic State and some innocent people might have died during the bombing as a result because the coward fighters of IS hide and live amongst the civilians and can't fight an open pitch battle like a conventional army but the difference here is that IS directly attacked innocent civilians and not the french army who bombed them. The sad part is that IS is took responsibility for it and is quite proud of killing innocent people sitting in cafes etc. There is a big difference.

[Bengal_Tiger]

France attacked Islamic State and some innocent people might have died during the bombing as a result because the coward fighters of IS hide and live amongst the civilians and can't fight an open pitch battle like a conventional army but the difference here is that IS directly attacked innocent civilians and not the french army who bombed them. The sad part is that IS is took responsibility for it and is quite proud of killing innocent people sitting in cafes etc. There is a big difference.

So the French state and European powers have nothing to apologize for...?

- Algeria genocide

- Rwanda

- Iraq

It is only Muslims that must fervently apologize for the acts of people that we have never met?

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

A few but I don't keep a record..

I seriously doubt that. Anyone who knows about the khutbah's can testify that all of what you COMMANDED imams to preach are already preached on regular bases since early 90's. In the last decade, at least once a week is the subject of violence and extremism condemned from the pulpits.

the imams condemn Isis, al Qaeda, Taliban, al shabab and other Muslim militants. They never condemn America and its stooges, the Saudi government and other criminals. They only condemn non state actors in ongoing conflicts. They don't even condemn Bashar al Assad so that Iran is not offended.

[Shapur]

So the French state and European powers have nothing to apologize for...?

- Algeria genocide

- Rwanda

- Iraq

It is only Muslims that must fervently apologize for the acts of people that we have never met?

Of course muslims shouldn't apologize for the idiocy of IS since it has nothing to do with Islam or muslims, just like what the French and western elites (government, corporatioetc) do has nothing to do with christianity or christians.

That is the logic the IS lunatics who carried out the massacre used, they said before carrying out the massacre that it was the fault of the French government for interfering in Syria and so the innocent people who were going about their life deserve to die because their government attacked them.

The muslims and christians must come together and distance themselves from the atrocities carried out in their name and values, its not apologising but speaking out the truth.

Ofcourse the colonial powers are responsible for alot of the mess in the world but we can't expect all westerners to apologize for what the ancestors did. Its always the few who benifit from wars and destruction. The western people are as much victims of oppression and exploitation by their elites as the rest of the world.

[Shapur]

I seriously doubt that. Anyone who knows about the khutbah's can testify that all of what you COMMANDED imams to preach are already preached on regular bases since early 90's. In the last decade, at least once a week is the subject of violence and extremism condemned from the pulpits.

the imams condemn Isis, al Qaeda, Taliban, al shabab and other Muslim militants. They never condemn America and its stooges, the Saudi government and other criminals. They only condemn non state actors in ongoing conflicts. They don't even condemn Bashar al Assad so that Iran is not offended.

You can believe what you want. The reason I don't listen to much of their khutbas is because of the same garbage their recycle every week. Everyone knows knows Al Sauds are puppets so nothing new there and these militant groups are a threat to their power so of course they will condem them. I have heard the imam condem kufars for their crimes against muslims so I am assuming the imam is alluding to America, West etc

Can you show me any examples either in video or any other form where the Friday khutba condems the killings of innocent people in the name of Islam for example the paris massacre, the 9/11 or 07/07 London bombings? I haven't come across it yet or maybe i am not looking closely enough as the khutbas are so boring to have to listen to all of it.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Of course muslims shouldn't apologize for the idiocy of IS since it has nothing to do with Islam or muslims, just like what the French and western elites (government, corporatioetc) do has nothing to do with christianity or christians.

That is the logic the IS lunatics who carried out the massacre used, they said before carrying out the massacre that it was the fault of the French government for interfering in Syria and so the innocent people who were going about their life deserve to die because their government attacked them.

The muslims and christians must come together and distance themselves from the atrocities carried out in their name and values, its not apologising but speaking out the truth.

Ofcourse the colonial powers are responsible for alot of the mess in the world but we can't expect all westerners to apologize for what the ancestors did. Its always the few who benifit from wars and destruction. The western people are as much victims of oppression and exploitation by their elites as the rest of the world.

Yes, but your whole tone seems to be an apologetic one assigning more value to white western lives than that of brown ones.

I apologise if that is not your intention at all but it does come across that way, especially given that you are saying the Imam of the holiest mosque in the world should devote a khutba (sermon - for the benefit of our thousands of guest readers) to this incident.

Would you say he should do the same if Americans bomb a hospital in Kunduz and tell America not to murder civilians?

[Shapur]

Yes, but your whole tone seems to be an apologetic one assigning more value to white western lives than that of brown ones.

I apologise if that is not your intention at all but it does come across that way, especially given that you are saying the Imam of the holiest mosque in the world should devote a khutba (sermon - for the benefit of our thousands of guest readers) to this incident.

Would you say he should do the same if Americans bomb a hospital in Kunduz and tell America not to murder civilians?

My tone is not apologetic at all, as soon as someone opens their mouth it is open to interpretation and different people take different meaning from the same words. My intention was that muslims should distance themselves from such atrocities and we should expect the same from christians and other if a crime was commited in their name but since we are muslims we should be more concerned about ourselves and getting our house in order and I am sure the good people from other faiths will do the same within their own communities.

It doesn't have to be the whole khutba, it can be just 5 minutes and because it is the most important khutba, the messege is likely to reach more young people who might be misled by the likes of IS and others but as Shamlawar mentioned these mullahs are puppets of Al Saud so one can't expect too much from them.

Ofcourse he should condem the American government for the bombing of hospital in Kunduz. He should do the same for the killings of muslims in Burma etc.

No need to apologise bro, you have nothing to apologise for.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

France attacked Islamic State and some innocent people might have died during the bombing as a result because the coward fighters of IS hide and live amongst the civilians and can't fight an open pitch battle like a conventional army but the difference here is that IS directly attacked innocent civilians and not the french army who bombed them. The sad part is that IS is took responsibility for it and is quite proud of killing innocent people sitting in cafes etc. There is a big difference.

So you are condoning killing of innocent Syrians by France as an act of retribution against ISIS. My atheists and Christian colleagues who find ISIS to be abhorrent are also against indiscriminate killing of Muslims by their own government and allies.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

You can believe what you want. The reason I don't listen to much of their khutbas is because of the same garbage their recycle every week. Everyone knows knows Al Sauds are puppets so nothing new there and these militant groups are a threat to their power so of course they will condem them. I have heard the imam condem kufars for their crimes against muslims so I am assuming the imam is alluding to America, West etc

Can you show me any examples either in video or any other form where the Friday khutba condems the killings of innocent people in the name of Islam for example the paris massacre, the 9/11 or 07/07 London bombings? I haven't come across it yet or maybe i am not looking closely enough as the khutbas are so boring to have to listen to all of it.

So you now admit you don't follow those khutbah's because as you said so yourself, it is same old garbage. If you never listen to them and if you consider it garbage anyway, from where this urge to COMMAND them to preach what you WANT them to preach?

I am not showing you anything. You just proved that the only reason why you want them to preach is because you wish to here them preach against enemies of France but not about crimes of America and France. You have also admitted that you condone killing of Muslims by France.

You are no different than ISIS. They also justify and support killing of people for the sake of their fascist state. They also believe it is kuffars fault for living in cities like Paris where President Hollande attended football match and where other dignitaries of kuffar " hide" between civilians.

just like you, Isis also ignore and disregard khutbah's as garbage and only listen to their own ideologues.

[Bengal_Tiger]

No need to apologise bro, you have nothing to apologise for.

No it's fine, you are one of the civilized people on this site whose presence should be appreciated and encouraged. Certain *others* could learn from you in how to talk to people.

[Shapur]

So you are condoning killing of innocent Syrians by France as an act of retribution against ISIS. My atheists and Christian colleagues who find ISIS to be abhorrent are also against indiscriminate killing of Muslims by their own government and allies.

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I condone the killing of innocent Syrians. I condemn the killings of innocent civilians anywhere whether it is done on purpose or whether it happens as collateral damage in the fight against ISIS.

So you now admit you don't follow those khutbah's because as you said so yourself, it is same old garbage. If you never listen to them and if you consider it garbage anyway, from where this urge to COMMAND them to preach what you WANT them to preach?

I am not showing you anything. You just proved that the only reason why you want them to preach is because you wish to here them preach against enemies of France but not about crimes of America and France. You have also admitted that you condone killing of Muslims by France.

You are no different than ISIS. They also justify and support killing of people for the sake of their fascist state. They also believe it is kuffars fault for living in cities like Paris where President Hollande attended football match and where other dignitaries of kuffar " hide" between civilians.

just like you, Isis also ignore and disregard khutbah's as garbage and only listen to their own ideologues.

The urge comes from a desire to listen to better Khutbas which are relevant to the current events and needs of the community and not recycle the same things ordered the house of Al Saud. Mecca being the holiest site in Islam deserves the best and most knowledgeable people Islam has to offer to deliver khutbas, not those on the pay roll of the Saudi Royal family.

Your conclusions from my statements are quite bizzare to say the least. My concern is the truth because that is the only thing that matters. I don't choose any sides other than the truth. My only concern is the innocent civilians who die because of other people's misguided beliefs and ideologies.

Even though I condem western intervention in the middle east in the name of "democracy", you can't really compare ISIS shooting at civilians openly and saying it is their president's fault for making them kill innocent civilians in concert halls and cafes to Frace bombing ISIS targets in residential areas. ISIS clearly targeted civilian targets, Hollande or any of the other officials or military personel weren't even at the concert halls or cafes where the killings took place. Show me any evidence that ISIS targeted military and governmetal targets and innocent people died in the cross fire or by accident and not intentionally. ISIS purposely targeted innocent civilians without discrimination between military targets and civilians targets. France or any other western country hasn't done that, at least not openly or on paper.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I condone the killing of innocent Syrians. I condemn the killings of innocent civilians anywhere whether it is done on purpose or whether it happens as collateral damage in the fight against ISIS.




The urge comes from a desire to listen to better Khutbas which are relevant to the current events and needs of the community and not recycle the same things ordered the house of Al Saud. Mecca being the holiest site in Islam deserves the best and most knowledgeable people Islam has to offer to deliver khutbas, not those on the pay roll of the Saudi Royal family.

Your conclusions from my statements are quite bizzare to say the least. My concern is the truth because that is the only thing that matters. I don't choose any sides other than the truth. My only concern is the innocent civilians who die because of other people's misguided beliefs and ideologies.

Even though I condem western intervention in the middle east in the name of "democracy", you can't really compare ISIS shooting at civilians openly and saying it is their president's fault for making them kill innocent civilians in concert halls and cafes to Frace bombing ISIS targets in residential areas. ISIS clearly targeted civilian targets, Hollande or any of the other officials or military personel weren't even at the concert halls or cafes where the killings took place. Show me any evidence that ISIS targeted military and governmetal targets and innocent people died in the cross fire or by accident and not intentionally. ISIS purposely targeted innocent civilians without discrimination between military targets and civilians targets. France or any other western country hasn't done that, at least not openly or on paper.

Fair enough. I may have misinterpreted what you said earlier.

[Bengal_Tiger]