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  • Iran commander says fleet can destroy U.S. warship in 50 seconds

    Iran commander says fleet can destroy U.S. warship in 50 seconds




    Revolutionary Guard naval commander says Iran has been building and destroying replicas of US ships for years
    May 6, 2014 2:00PM ET
    by Michael Pizzi @michaelwpizzi


    Iran has developed the capacity to destroy a U.S. warship on less than a minute’s notice, the commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) said Tuesday in comments that were met with skepticism by military experts in the West.
    In the latest threat that Iran’s hardline military forces have levied at U.S. presence in the region, Navy Rear Admiral Ali Fadavi told semi-official Fars news agency that his forces have been building replicas of U.S. frigates and aircraft carriers for years in order to practice blowing them up. His forces, which patrol the Persian Gulf and the Strait of Hormuz — a major oil supply route — but are separate from the Iranian navy, have the capacity to sink U.S. vessels in that area in 50 seconds, he said.
    “We practice the same drills on replica aircraft carriers because sinking and destroying U.S. warships has, is and will be on our agenda,” Fadavi said. “Aircraft carriers are the symbol of America’s military might…so it’s natural that we want to sink the carriers.”
    The revelations from the admiral appeared to solve the mystery of satellite imagery published by CNN in March depicting a model of the U.S. Navy’s Nimitz-class nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, complete with planes, docked in Iran’s Gachin shipyard. Iranian media had reported the ship was “part of the décor” for a movie from esteemed director Nader Talabzadeh about the 1988 downing of an Iranian Air plane by the USS Vincennes.
    At the time, Iranians bristled at accusations from U.S. intelligence officials that the replica was being built for some propagandistic purpose — perhaps to be blown up as a demonstration of Iranian military prowess. “This issue has turned into a good excuse for another wave of hype against Iran,” said Alef news. “Without any real proof or real basis, Western media have jumped again to paint a more negative picture of Iran.”
    But an Iranian newspaper confirmed U.S. suspicions about the model aircraft carrier last month, and on Tuesday Fadavi acknowledged the CNN report, saying only that “the U.S. media and research centers commented on the revelation very simplemindedly. The Americans know nothing.”
    A spokesman for the U.S. Navy’s 5th Fleet, which is based across the Gulf in Bahrain, dismissed Fadavi’s threats. "Whatever Iran hopes to do with the mock-up, it is likely to have zero impact on U.S. Navy operations in the Gulf," Commander Jason Salata told The Associated Press on Tuesday.
    "Firing weapons at a stationary structure floating on pontoons is not a realistic representation of having the capability to target a 100,000-ton warship ... maneuvering at speeds in excess of 30 knots," he said.
    The Revolutionary Guard’s naval forces do not fall under the purview of Iran’s moderate president, Hassan Rouhani, who has taken steps toward rapprochement with the U.S. and has even begun to scale back Iran's nuclear capacity under a deal struck with Western powers. The IRGC and other conservative powers in Iran have largely condemned these steps and persist in their threats against U.S. assets in the region.
    Earlier this year, an Iranian commander said Iran would advance naval vessels towards U.S. maritime borders in response to a growing U.S. presence in the Gulf — a threat that was roundly dismissed by the Pentagon on grounds Iran could not afford to risk provoking the U.S.
    Iran mined and fired on U.S. warships in the Persian Gulf during the 1987-88 Iran-Iraq War but most military analysts are hard-pressed to conceive of any scenario today where an Iranian act of aggression would not be met by severe reprisal from the vastly superior U.S. military.
    “The ability to start something you cannot finish is no measure of military capability,” said Anthony Cordesman, the Arleigh A. Burke chair in strategy at the Center for Strategic and International Studies and a former NATO and Department of Defense official.
    Fadavi on Tuesday said that every U.S. warship ferrying through the Strait of Hormuz is contacted by IRGC Naval forces and queried about its identity, purpose, and destination. If they “decline to respond, they will come to realize right away that a large number of our vessels have surrounded them and/or our missiles are locked on them,” Fadavi said.
    But given Iran's inferior arsenal, these threats are more readily interpreted as politically motivated, said Cordesman.
    “I understand the internal dynamics and the effort to keep up pressure on the U.S. and what the IRGC views as the soft line of the Iranian leadership," he said, "but they cannot possibly expect to be taken seriously here.”
    Stay on top of United States latest developments on the ground with Al Jazeera’s fact-based news, exclusive video footage, photos and updated maps.

  • #2
    Yeah,right with Anti ship ballistic missile like chinese DF-21D(lol)

    I still remember when iranian naval commander claimed that iran will build or has started to build nuclear submarine while they are yet to even design a 10mw commercial reactor on their own.

    It is believed that Pakistan has started work on submarine based reactor in 90's and only in 2007-08 reports were leaked into media of a possible completion which also could be done with chinese help because india having larger engineering and industrial base than pakistan took almost 2decades to develop a submarine based nuclear reactor

    anyway Iran is the only navy in the world which consider 500tons ships as destroyer while in Pakistan we refer 2000tons ships as corvette and 600tons ships as Fast attack craft(sort of larger missile boats).

    The west laugh at Pakistan when we put tag of destroyer on our 3600tons ship :D
    "[B][SIZE="3"]Seer Speen Wazeer[/SIZE][/B]"

    Comment


    • #3
      All this military talk is pure nonsense and propaganda. Although to be fair, Iran has pretty decent education and high standards of living. [MENTION=10678]Da Bannu Mazdigar[/MENTION] Iranian students are some of the best students in the USA, and their universities are some of the best in Asia, I would rate Iranian education, especially in Engineering/Computer Science as on par with India, if not better. Pakistan/Afghanistan are ultra weak in Engineering and Science, they seem to be more interested in medical studies.

      Watch this video, Stanford and MIT are the best Engineering schools on earth, and look at what Stanford says:

      According to usa experts Iran's university best of the world - YouTube

      In addition, you rarely find Pakistanis/Afghans in top Engineering schools, although Pakistan seems to be fixing this with GIKI and LUMS, but still, they are much, much weaker than the Iranian Shiraz, Sharif, ITU, and the others, in part because Iranians seem to return back to Iran for university positions. A quick look at their faculty, one see why they would be strong, but you barely have Pakistani/Afghan Ph.D's in Computer Science, which is the future. I'm almost shocked to see the amount of Iranian Ph.D students in Engineering/Computer Science. Turkey is also pretty good.
      Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

      A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

      For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


      The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

      -Ferishta, 1560–1620

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Admin Khan View Post
        All this military talk is pure nonsense and propaganda. Although to be fair, Iran has pretty decent education and high standards of living. [MENTION=10678]Da Bannu Mazdigar[/MENTION] Iranian students are some of the best students in the USA, and their universities are some of the best in Asia, I would rate Iranian education, especially in Engineering/Computer Science as on par with India, if not better. Pakistan/Afghanistan are ultra weak in Engineering and Science, they seem to be more interested in medical studies.

        Watch this video, Stanford and MIT are the best Engineering schools on earth, and look at what Stanford says:

        According to usa experts Iran's university best of the world - YouTube

        In addition, you rarely find Pakistanis/Afghans in top Engineering schools, although Pakistan seems to be fixing this with GIKI and LUMS, but still, they are much, much weaker than the Iranian Shiraz, Sharif, ITU, and the others, in part because Iranians seem to return back to Iran for university positions. A quick look at their faculty, one see why they would be strong, but you barely have Pakistani/Afghan Ph.D's in Computer Science, which is the future. I'm almost shocked to see the amount of Iranian Ph.D students in Engineering/Computer Science. Turkey is also pretty good.
        I do agree Iranian Living standard aswell as education overall is better than Pakistan.Though i consider indian education system even better than chinese let alone comparable to iran.

        But Since the inception of HEC by Musharaf.Pakistan education Quality has increased many folds.Today as per all the world universities rankings Pakistani university are put ahead of Iran.

        According to QS World universities ranking(Considered the most accurate ranking)

        Pakistani Universities ranking

        *NUST:Ranking =481-490
        *UET Lahore :701+
        *University of karachi: 701+
        *University of Lahore :701+

        Irani Universities ranking

        *University of tehran:Ranking= 601-650
        *Sharif Technology University:Ranking=601-650


        Source:
        Search Pakistan,Iran



        This is the ranking despite past 5years of HEC under PPP govt with extremely low budget.While Nawaz Govt had increased the budget by 32% in the first year and promised 40% Increase this year(More than HEC damand)

        Pakistani fastest nust developed Supercomputer speed is 132TeraFLOPS compared to 86Teraflops speed Supercomputer being developed by a university in iran

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ScREC_(supercomputer)

        Pakistan publication per year was less than 400 prior to the formation of HEC and today it is more than 10k and as per the SJR ranking it will double by 2018 or in only 5years(Onwards 2013).

        In Patens both Pakistand and iran are quite weak but if we watch out the near past History of Pakistan Application filed for patents.Than they are more than 16times higher than of iran





        I still agree that on Average and mostly on primary level Iran is too ahead of Pakistan,Could be because of many times better standard of living and almost 3times higher per capita income than Pakistan beside more than 80% literacy rate.But on Higher education base either we are comparable or we have already left them behind.And the GAP in higher education will also increase in our favour.

        More universities of NUST,GIKI and PIEASE Standard are being built in Pakistan.
        "[B][SIZE="3"]Seer Speen Wazeer[/SIZE][/B]"

        Comment


        • #5
          Asian Universities Ranking

          Pakistan :

          *QU Ranks 119
          *NUST ranks 120
          *Agha Khan University ranks 151-160
          *LUMS rankis 191-200
          *UET Lahore ranks 201-250
          *University of Karachi 201-250
          *University of Punjab 201-250

          "[B][SIZE="3"]Seer Speen Wazeer[/SIZE][/B]"

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Da Bannu Mazdigar View Post
            I do agree Iranian Living standard aswell as education overall is better than Pakistan.Though i consider indian education system even better than chinese let alone comparable to iran.

            But Since the inception of HEC by Musharaf.Pakistan education Quality has increased many folds.Today as per all the world universities rankings Pakistani university are put ahead of Iran.

            According to QS World universities ranking(Considered the most accurate ranking)

            Pakistani Universities ranking

            *NUST:Ranking =481-490
            *UET Lahore :701+
            *University of karachi: 701+
            *University of Lahore :701+

            Irani Universities ranking

            *University of tehran:Ranking= 601-650
            *Sharif Technology University:Ranking=601-650


            Source:
            Search Pakistan,Iran



            This is the ranking despite past 5years of HEC under PPP govt with extremely low budget.While Nawaz Govt had increased the budget by 32% in the first year and promised 40% Increase this year(More than HEC damand)

            Pakistani fastest nust developed Supercomputer speed is 132TeraFLOPS compared to 86Teraflops speed Supercomputer being developed by a university in iran

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ScREC_(supercomputer)

            Pakistan publication per year was less than 400 prior to the formation of HEC and today it is more than 10k and as per the SJR ranking it will double by 2018 or in only 5years(Onwards 2013).

            In Patens both Pakistand and iran are quite weak but if we watch out the near past History of Pakistan Application filed for patents.Than they are more than 16times higher than of iran





            I still agree that on Average and mostly on primary level Iran is too ahead of Pakistan,Could be because of many times better standard of living and almost 3times higher per capita income than Pakistan beside more than 80% literacy rate.But on Higher education base either we are comparable or we have already left them behind.And the GAP in higher education will also increase in our favour.

            More universities of NUST,GIKI and PIEASE Standard are being built in Pakistan.
            These rankings, past 100, are meaningless, in my opinion. From what I have experienced, as an Engineer, is that the impact of Iranians is much higher than Pakistanis and Afghans *combined*. In fact, it's comparable to Indians, if not higher. Iranian that come to the US are Engineers that have a solid education(I think in the 70's, Iran had the 4-5 highest foreign student population in the US, comparable to India(look at their population!)), and usually excel in graduate programs, and are usually in *very, very* high numbers. In comparison, you rarely find Pakistanis in top Engineering programs. If you do a quick Linkedin search on Iranian University students in companies like Google, Microsoft, Apple, Yahoo, Facebook, Intel, Nvidia, startups, and so forth, you'll be stunned, and then do the same for a Pakistani university, and you will find peanuts.

            On the contrary, Pakistani students are excellent doctors, in fact, a large chunk of Pakistanis enter the medical field, and so do Afghans. Of the 20-30K Afghans in New York, a large chunk are now entering the medical field, some holding prominent positions. The same for Pakistanis, but here is what's interesting:

            A)Both Pakistanis and Afghans do just about *nothing* to support where they came from. I don't want to say all, cause that would be a generalization, but it's pretty much *all*.

            B)Iranians give back. Sharif has had 3 presidents from MIT, the world's BEST Engineering school and recently the #1 university in the world. The only MIT guy in Pakistani, who is a bit prominent, is Hoodbhoy, and he is usually regarded as a "fanatic" by the backward Pakistani average.

            Most American universities have realized that Iranian students are able to complete the rigorous programs at MIT, Stanford, whereas others, drop out. Take a look at MIT's CSAIL lab, and see how many Iranians you find, arguably the most prestigious lab on earth, and most hard to get into lab on earth, yet you will not find a single Afghan and I think only 1 Pakistani woman.

            In addition, the two have made no impact. Bangladeshis have more of an impact in Engineering, than Pakistanis and Afghans. I do see a lot of intelligent and smart Bangladeshis, but I have yet to see the same in Pakistanis and Afghans. One problem is that system of Pakistan, where critical thinking is not taught, it's all bout "ratification", memorization. As you can imagine, that nonsense might help you medical exams, but it can *never* work in Engineering, hence the non-existent Engineering population amongst AFPAK in the US, and Silicon Valley. I mean, with a nation of 230 million(AFPAK), you'd imagine you will see them around quite frequently.

            I'm an Engineering guy, so my scope is limited to that.

            Caveat:
            To be a fair, the issue of Pakistan not being able to produce intelligent, critical, Engineers is not limited to Pakistan, it's a problem in the entire Muslim world, and so far only Saudia Arabia seems to be fixing this problem through KAIST, along with Turkey and Iran. GIKI, NUST, LUMS needs at least $1-2 billion dollar(per year) in funding to quickly catch up regional standards, and $15-20 billion dollars per year(along with 50-100 years) to reach up to MIT standards. It's the impact of alumni that matters the most. From Youtube, to DropBox, Iranians in America have played a pivotal role. I would be pretty happy, if we can on average, find a Arash Ferdowsi, or Omid Kordestani, in the AFPAK community, and always try to mentor our youth here at the Masjid to work harder, study harder, and aim for the sky, try to be innovative and start your own company.

            Hope you are doing well.
            Best,
            Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

            A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

            For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


            The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

            -Ferishta, 1560–1620

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Admin Khan View Post
              These rankings, past 100, are meaningless, in my opinion. From what I have experienced, as an Engineer, is that the impact of Iranians is much higher than Pakistanis and Afghans *combined*. In fact, it's comparable to Indians, if not higher. Iranian that come to the US are Engineers that have a solid education(I think in the 70's, Iran had the 4-5 highest foreign student population in the US, comparable to India(look at their population!)), and usually excel in graduate programs, and are usually in *very, very* high numbers. In comparison, you rarely find Pakistanis in top Engineering programs. If you do a quick Linkedin search on Iranian University students in companies like Google, Microsoft, Apple, Yahoo, Facebook, Intel, Nvidia, startups, and so forth, you'll be stunned, and then do the same for a Pakistani university, and you will find peanuts.

              On the contrary, Pakistani students are excellent doctors, in fact, a large chunk of Pakistanis enter the medical field, and so do Afghans. Of the 20-30K Afghans in New York, a large chunk are now entering the medical field, some holding prominent positions. The same for Pakistanis, but here is what's interesting:

              A)Both Pakistanis and Afghans do just about *nothing* to support where they came from. I don't want to say all, cause that would be a generalization, but it's pretty much *all*.

              B)Iranians give back. Sharif has had 3 presidents from MIT, the world's BEST Engineering school and recently the #1 university in the world. The only MIT guy in Pakistani, who is a bit prominent, is Hoodbhoy, and he is usually regarded as a "fanatic" by the backward Pakistani average.

              Most American universities have realized that Iranian students are able to complete the rigorous programs at MIT, Stanford, whereas others, drop out. Take a look at MIT's CSAIL lab, and see how many Iranians you find, arguably the most prestigious lab on earth, and most hard to get into lab on earth, yet you will not find a single Afghan and I think only 1 Pakistani woman.

              In addition, the two have made no impact. Bangladeshis have more of an impact in Engineering, than Pakistanis and Afghans. I do see a lot of intelligent and smart Bangladeshis, but I have yet to see the same in Pakistanis and Afghans. One problem is that system of Pakistan, where critical thinking is not taught, it's all bout "ratification", memorization. As you can imagine, that nonsense might help you medical exams, but it can *never* work in Engineering, hence the non-existent Engineering population amongst AFPAK in the US, and Silicon Valley. I mean, with a nation of 230 million(AFPAK), you'd imagine you will see them around quite frequently.

              I'm an Engineering guy, so my scope is limited to that.

              Caveat:
              To be a fair, the issue of Pakistan not being able to produce intelligent, critical, Engineers is not limited to Pakistan, it's a problem in the entire Muslim world, and so far only Saudia Arabia seems to be fixing this problem through KAIST, along with Turkey and Iran. GIKI, NUST, LUMS needs at least $1-2 billion dollar(per year) in funding to quickly catch up regional standards, and $15-20 billion dollars per year(along with 50-100 years) to reach up to MIT standards. It's the impact of alumni that matters the most. From Youtube, to DropBox, Iranians in America have played a pivotal role. I would be pretty happy, if we can on average, find a Arash Ferdowsi, or Omid Kordestani, in the AFPAK community, and always try to mentor our youth here at the Masjid to work harder, study harder, and aim for the sky, try to be innovative and start your own company.

              Hope you are doing well.
              Best,
              I Agree,This is the reason i said iranian primary education is way too much better than Pakistan.This is the reason they end up in the Firms you mentioned.

              But everything is changing in Pakistan.Since the Inception of HEC alot has changed.

              As per SJR ranking itself Pakistan will move up from 43 rank to 27 ranking.

              Medical once was But Engineering is now the focus among the youth.

              Both Pakistan and Afghan basic Problem is poverty.hundred years back there was hardly any difference between Afghan,persians or the pakistanis in british india But the discoverty of oil has made them Rich which in return means better educational facilities.

              Last year i was surprised when i read that the Engineering dept in Nust alone had filed 24 Patents.

              As per Tiger Awan(A member of PDF and ex student of Nust).He in 2012-13 when the Nust developed Supercomputer was revealed had confirmed that a Lab in nust is now developing another one with more than 300teraFLOP speed under the money sanctioned by ministry of science(or something similar).Hell they have projects of AESA radar worth 21Million dollars.
              "[B][SIZE="3"]Seer Speen Wazeer[/SIZE][/B]"

              Comment


              • #8
                I think Admin Khan is correct about the university rankings outside the west being dubious; here is an interesting measure that seems to coincide well with his experience with students from Asia: the International Mathematics and Science Olympiads. You won't find a more cruel test of raw Mathematical and Scientific problem solving ability than these out there. I think it is safe to say that these are a decent measure of a nations capacity for identifying and cultivating its most extraordinary student Mathematicians, Engineers and Scientists.

                Have a look at the performance statistics for say the Mathematics and Informatics (Computer Science) International Olympiads and you will find that from the Muslim world, only three countries actually have a decent record: Turkey, Iran and Kazakhstan (in the IMO, these three consistently come in the top 30, the first two in the top 20).
                http://www.imo-official.org/results.aspx
                http://stats.ioinformatics.org/countries/

                Pakistan has not done very well in the IMO and has not even started competing in the IIO -although to be fair, it has had much less experience in the former but nevertheless both Turkey and Iran were doing pretty well when they first started competing (still in the top 30s). One of the major problems plaguing the academia of the developing world is the brain drain: these medal winning Olympiad competitors from the developing world aren't going to have much difficulty securing a place at your Ivy League (UK's Cambridge university in fact explicitly stipulates an unconditional offer for successful IMO competitors), for example, and probably not much difficulty securing citizenship in a western country. Convincing these guys to join the academia of their own native countries would perhaps be one of the quickest ways to boost the academic standing of these countries -easier said than done.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Herat, I don't agree. Muslim and third world countries can still boost the average quality of their education if they do something about the quality of secondary school level education. Secondary school level education is the crucial stage where intellectual faculties develop for comprehending more abstract knowledge and to understand problem solving.

                  Moreover, if good books are translated into native languages and medium of instruction are native languages with a strong focus of course on developing good ability in English as well, quality will improve.
                  Last edited by Toramana; 05-10-2014, 08:52 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Toramana View Post
                    Herat, I don't agree. Muslim and third world countries can still boost the average quality of their education if they do something about the quality of secondary school level education. Secondary school level education is the crucial stage where intellectual faculties develop for comprehending more abstract knowledge and to understand problem solving.

                    Moreover, if good books are translated into native languages and medium of instruction are native languages with a strong focus of course on developing good ability in English as well.
                    Oh no, I think the brain drain is a major problem for say Turkey, Iran and Kazakhstan but not for Afghanistan-Pakistan. We're not even there yet, the problem of Afghanistan-Pakistan is more fundamental and I do agree with your assessment.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Admin Khan View Post
                      These rankings, past 100, are meaningless, in my opinion. From what I have experienced, as an Engineer, is that the impact of Iranians is much higher than Pakistanis and Afghans *combined*. In fact, it's comparable to Indians, if not higher. Iranian that come to the US are Engineers that have a solid education(I think in the 70's, Iran had the 4-5 highest foreign student population in the US, comparable to India(look at their population!)), and usually excel in graduate programs, and are usually in *very, very* high numbers. In comparison, you rarely find Pakistanis in top Engineering programs. If you do a quick Linkedin search on Iranian University students in companies like Google, Microsoft, Apple, Yahoo, Facebook, Intel, Nvidia, startups, and so forth, you'll be stunned, and then do the same for a Pakistani university, and you will find peanuts.

                      On the contrary, Pakistani students are excellent doctors, in fact, a large chunk of Pakistanis enter the medical field, and so do Afghans. Of the 20-30K Afghans in New York, a large chunk are now entering the medical field, some holding prominent positions. The same for Pakistanis, but here is what's interesting:

                      A)Both Pakistanis and Afghans do just about *nothing* to support where they came from. I don't want to say all, cause that would be a generalization, but it's pretty much *all*.

                      B)Iranians give back. Sharif has had 3 presidents from MIT, the world's BEST Engineering school and recently the #1 university in the world. The only MIT guy in Pakistani, who is a bit prominent, is Hoodbhoy, and he is usually regarded as a "fanatic" by the backward Pakistani average.

                      Most American universities have realized that Iranian students are able to complete the rigorous programs at MIT, Stanford, whereas others, drop out. Take a look at MIT's CSAIL lab, and see how many Iranians you find, arguably the most prestigious lab on earth, and most hard to get into lab on earth, yet you will not find a single Afghan and I think only 1 Pakistani woman.

                      In addition, the two have made no impact. Bangladeshis have more of an impact in Engineering, than Pakistanis and Afghans. I do see a lot of intelligent and smart Bangladeshis, but I have yet to see the same in Pakistanis and Afghans. One problem is that system of Pakistan, where critical thinking is not taught, it's all bout "ratification", memorization. As you can imagine, that nonsense might help you medical exams, but it can *never* work in Engineering, hence the non-existent Engineering population amongst AFPAK in the US, and Silicon Valley. I mean, with a nation of 230 million(AFPAK), you'd imagine you will see them around quite frequently.

                      I'm an Engineering guy, so my scope is limited to that.

                      Caveat:
                      To be a fair, the issue of Pakistan not being able to produce intelligent, critical, Engineers is not limited to Pakistan, it's a problem in the entire Muslim world, and so far only Saudia Arabia seems to be fixing this problem through KAIST, along with Turkey and Iran. GIKI, NUST, LUMS needs at least $1-2 billion dollar(per year) in funding to quickly catch up regional standards, and $15-20 billion dollars per year(along with 50-100 years) to reach up to MIT standards. It's the impact of alumni that matters the most. From Youtube, to DropBox, Iranians in America have played a pivotal role. I would be pretty happy, if we can on average, find a Arash Ferdowsi, or Omid Kordestani, in the AFPAK community, and always try to mentor our youth here at the Masjid to work harder, study harder, and aim for the sky, try to be innovative and start your own company.

                      Hope you are doing well.
                      Best,
                      Admin Khan, South Asian specially and Pakis in particular are the most imitator people of the world. They learn English and walk talk like Westerners to look good. Overall, they are producing number crunching machines that can do things mechanically but don't know how did the various scientific ideas originate and how are they applied to practical problems.

                      The idiotic PTI Chief Minister of KP who by the very looks seems to be a jahil being follower of the mediocre Tsunami Khan that day said "I have headache when people say Pashto should be medium of instruction".

                      Pakis have even corrupted the Cambridge curriculum. Beaconhousers, Root Schoolers, etc. just memorize solved questions of the past 6-7 years to pass O-levels and A-levels.

                      It is a completely rotten society and a bogus country plagued with terrorism, corruption, hyperbole, and imitation.

                      I have good hopes from Afghans because being original people and not copycats like Pakis, they have adopted native languages as medium of instruction. I wish some Afghans persuade authorities and private publishers to translate famous books of science, technology, mathematics, etc. into Pashto, Dari, and other native languages.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Herat View Post
                        Oh no, I think the brain drain is a major problem for say Turkey, Iran and Kazakhstan but not for Afghanistan-Pakistan. We're not even there yet, the problem of Afghanistan-Pakistan is more fundamental and I do agree with your assessment.
                        Herat, as long as economic conditions are poor and there is instability and poor law and order, there will be brain drain. But you know the engines of today's economies as well as the pre-requisites of stable societies with good law and order are skilled work-force that can participate more productively in the economic structure and also are good law-abiding citizens. If you improve the average quality of education in a country, economic and social conditions can improve of course coupled with other things e.g. wise leadership, pragmatic foreign policy, etc.

                        Look how many intelligent Europeans immigrate to US but still there is no brain drain in Europe because the average education level is good.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Herat View Post
                          I think Admin Khan is correct about the university rankings outside the west being dubious; here is an interesting measure that seems to coincide well with his experience with students from Asia: the International Mathematics and Science Olympiads. You won't find a more cruel test of raw Mathematical and Scientific problem solving ability than these out there. I think it is safe to say that these are a decent measure of a nations capacity for identifying and cultivating its most extraordinary student Mathematicians, Engineers and Scientists.

                          Have a look at the performance statistics for say the Mathematics and Informatics (Computer Science) International Olympiads and you will find that from the Muslim world, only three countries actually have a decent record: Turkey, Iran and Kazakhstan (in the IMO, these three consistently come in the top 30, the first two in the top 20).
                          http://www.imo-official.org/results.aspx
                          http://stats.ioinformatics.org/countries/

                          Pakistan has not done very well in the IMO and has not even started competing in the IIO -although to be fair, it has had much less experience in the former but nevertheless both Turkey and Iran were doing pretty well when they first started competing (still in the top 30s). One of the major problems plaguing the academia of the developing world is the brain drain: these medal winning Olympiad competitors from the developing world aren't going to have much difficulty securing a place at your Ivy League (UK's Cambridge university in fact explicitly stipulates an unconditional offer for successful IMO competitors), for example, and probably not much difficulty securing citizenship in a western country. Convincing these guys to join the academia of their own native countries would perhaps be one of the quickest ways to boost the academic standing of these countries -easier said than done.
                          Not even that, in Computer Science, we have what is called the ACM-ICPC competition, and even the Afghan students educated in Iran, scores better than Pakistan as a nation. TopCoder, another competition known to measure the raw brain power of a human being also has an interesting paper trail. Iran, goes toe to toe with the US and Russia on that site, whereas AFPAK is no where to be found. In my opinion, the issue is definitely embedded within their culture, and school system. Because even in the US, despite the AFPAK community being pretty huge, AFPAK still rarely does as well, when compared to Turkish immigrants, or Iranian immigrants. One might blame the issue on war, which is a realistic excuse, however, the fact still holds -- Pakistan has a poorly regarded educational system, and I urge each Pakistani to explore other avenues to enrichen their education.

                          You don't have to necessarily attend Harvard Med, or get a job at MassGen hospital, Turkish, Iranian education is just as good. In fact, Bogazici, METU of Turkey is as good as Iran's Shiraz, Sharif, and AmirKabir. I interact with so many alums from the aforementioned, that it's incredible to see their impact being felt thousands of miles away. One fact which is for sure, is having analyzed Sharif, Shiraz, Amir Kabir, ITU, etc western educated faculty, you can tell why Iran does so well. In Pakistan, you have someone with a bachelors degree from Peanuts University educating you, whereas in Iran, you have a University of Illinois - Urbana Champaign(Top 5 in CS on earth), Carnegie Mellon University(#1 in CS on earth), MIT*(#1 in CS on earth, #1 overall university in the world as of recent), educating you, in your *native* tongue. In addition, MIT educated alums that return to Iran, teach the entrepreneurial culture of MIT. Herat, did you know that if MIT were to be a country, it would be the 11th largest economy in the world? Because of all the companies its alums have produced? Imagine being taught by such an alum, in Farsi, within Iran.

                          Best,

                          * = http://www.topuniversities.com/stude...mit-or-caltech
                          Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

                          A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

                          For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


                          The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

                          -Ferishta, 1560–1620

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Admin Khan View Post
                            Not even that, in Computer Science, we have what is called the ACM-ICPC competition, and even the Afghan students educated in Iran, scores better than Pakistan as a nation. TopCoder, another competition known to measure the raw brain power of a human being also has an interesting paper trail. Iran, goes toe to toe with the US and Russia on that site, whereas AFPAK is no where to be found. In my opinion, the issue is definitely embedded within their culture, and school system. Because even in the US, despite the AFPAK community being pretty huge, AFPAK still rarely does as well, when compared to Turkish immigrants, or Iranian immigrants. One might blame the issue on war, which is a realistic excuse, however, the fact still holds -- Pakistan has a poorly regarded educational system, and I urge each Pakistani to explore other avenues to enrichen their education.

                            You don't have to necessarily attend Harvard Med, or get a job at MassGen hospital, Turkish, Iranian education is just as good. In fact, Bogazici, METU of Turkey is as good as Iran's Shiraz, Sharif, and AmirKabir. I interact with so many alums from the aforementioned, that it's incredible to see their impact being felt thousands of miles away. One fact which is for sure, is having analyzed Sharif, Shiraz, Amir Kabir, ITU, etc western educated faculty, you can tell why Iran does so well. In Pakistan, you have someone with a bachelors degree from Peanuts University educating you, whereas in Iran, you have a University of Illinois - Urbana Champaign(Top 5 in CS on earth), Carnegie Mellon University(#1 in CS on earth), MIT*(#1 in CS on earth, #1 overall university in the world as of recent), educating you, in your *native* tongue. In addition, MIT educated alums that return to Iran, teach the entrepreneurial culture of MIT. Herat, did you know that if MIT were to be a country, it would be the 11th largest economy in the world? Because of all the companies its alums have produced? Imagine being taught by such an alum, in Farsi, within Iran.

                            Best,

                            * = http://www.topuniversities.com/stude...mit-or-caltech
                            War certainly played the critical role in Afghanistan (and basically the Pashtun areas of Pakistan too) but yes I do agree that the region has a cultural problem too. I think you were also spot on with the comments on medicine earlier, AFPK has an obsession with medicine (and I say this as a student to be lol) whereas it is clearly much more in need of at least Engineers at this point in time -infrastructure is more important than the health-care sector for now.

                            You know, the western Europeans again have done an emulation worthy job with their higher-education institutions in the framework of the EU -in the UK, for example, EU students are counted as and have nearly the same privileges as the UK home students. EU students can in fact get a completely tuition-fee free education in Scandinavia. Let us hope that the Islamic world, or at least the various regions in it, follows suit in the future.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Iran is only ahead because of its primary and secondary education back home.Primary and secondary education has also more to do with the standard of living and poverty indicators.

                              On the other hand Be it on Patents,Publication or any Ground level figure Nust beat any university one can name out of Iran.

                              I believe this is Incredible for a university formed in 1991 to beat the best out of iran.Sharif University formed in 1966 with patents,Publications and most important in a country like Pakistan where under PPP the HEC budget also was reduced by 10% which already is way too low.

                              Alumni of Sharif Uni must be strong because of it nearly 25 years older than NUST.Give Nust 10 more years.

                              And As per HEC ranking,NUST is not even the top university in Pakistan but PIEASE
                              "[B][SIZE="3"]Seer Speen Wazeer[/SIZE][/B]"

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