Iran says may send forces into Pakistan

[randolph85]

There will never be a full scale military conflict but iran has more leverage against pakistan where they can pour money to the various anti state groups operating in the country. pakistan could help create all these groups but unfortunately for them there is no off switch and these people have turned against the government.

[Smarty]

I think the main issue in an Iran Vs Pak scenario would be munitions, Iran has been stockpiling for years while Pak has obv been burning them away in FATA and KPK. Pak would probably run into the same situation UK and France did during the Libya drama

Iran has oil. In 1965 war pakistan survived against india due to free supply of oil from iran.

[Bengal_Tiger]

I think the main issue in an Iran Vs Pak scenario would be munitions, Iran has been stockpiling for years while Pak has obv been burning them away in FATA and KPK. Pak would probably run into the same situation UK and France did during the Libya drama

1. The Iranian military is far superior to the Pakistani "army" in many ways.

a: The Iranians were in disarray after the Iranian revolution and then there was a war with Saddam, this war lasted under a decade. Hundreds of thousands died in the biggest war in the world after the second world war.

The entire Arab world (bar Syria) supported Saddam pouring billions. The Iranians resisted and held their territory.

b: The point is this is a country which has had at least 8 years of total war of the entire country being organized on the basis of defending itself against a foreign enemy. Pakistan has never had anything similar despite all their bravado and rhetoric.

In 1971 after the Indians moved their army in December (the previous 8 months it was Bengalis fighting) the Pakistanis folded quite quickly, including in West Pakistan. They could not defend their borders against India (in west Pakistan) the way the Iranians did against Iraq.

India took thousands of square miles of West Pakistan in 2 weeks or so, Iraq could not take Iran after 8 years. (When Pakistan tried to take a few heights in Kashmir in 1999 they failed, whereas the Indians in 71 took thousands of square miles).


c: Iranian troops have superior combat experience e.g due to the 8 year war with Iraq.

d: Iranians are the ones who trained Hezbollah, recognized as the best non-army fighting force in the world, felt by many to have defeated the regional military superpower that is Israel.

e: Iran's military designs itself to be able to take on these countries:

i: Turkey, NATO's 2nd biggest army and biggest army in Europe
ii: Iraq
iii: Saudi Arabia, a huge purchaser of arms
iv: Israel
v: An attack from America

Pakistan is weaker than all of the 5 above and is a piece of cake in comparison.


Pakistan's military history


- Lost half of the country to Bengali guerillas in 1971.



American-backed Pakistani soldiers surrendering in Bangladesh in 1971.

- Lost parts of West Pakistan in 1965 when the Indian forces crossed the border and even reached Lahore, the Lahoris were only saved by Bengali soldiers of the East Bengal Regiment of the then Pakistan army, some of these Bengali regiment soldiers were later killed in 71 simply for being Bengali.

- Lost parts of west Pakistan in 1971 to India which India only restored to Pakistan after Pakistan begged India to do so.

After Pakistan begged, India gave land back under the Simla agreement.

As a consequence of the clauses pertaining to the withdrawal of forces, Indian troops withdrew from the 5,139 sq. miles of Pakistani territory in Punjab and Sindh it had occupied during the war.

- See more at: http://storyofpakistan.com/the-simla....qDCi0UHe.dpuf

- Were defeated in Kargil in 1999 when they attacked India.



Indian soldiers retake positions in Kashmir after being attacked by Pakistani forces.


- Have been defeated by TTP and Pashtun fighters many times in the 2000s resulting in them giving control of some parts to these groups at certain times.


- Have not been able to defeat Balochi rebels and two years ago the then Pakistani prime minister, Gilani, spoke of a referendum on Balochistan i.e. he was prepared to give up 44% of Pakistani territory.



There are two insurgencies in the country now, 50,000 people have died. Large parts of the biggest city and main economic centre have a Taliban presence or control. Terrorists who have killed soldiers and civilians may now be "negotiated" with i.e. the army was unable to crush them.


Pakistan is a mess, a failed state, a state with a shameful history of defeat and humiliation.

To compare it with a powerful country like Iran is an absolute joke.

[randolph85]

iran would realistically get its ass kicked by any country with a modern air force. iran is still flying phantoms from the 60s and its air defenses can't handle modern aircraft. its greatest asset is its missile program.

[Bengal_Tiger]

I don't think there will be a full-scale war and I doubt the Iranians want one.

1. This is to "cleanse" the border area.

2. Also a possible message to the Pakistani-Saudi alliance trying to destabilize Iran.


The fact is this now:

A: Afghanistan sometimes bombs Pakistan or retaliates to Pakistani bombing and artillery.

B: America bombs Pakistan with drones.

C: India bombs Pakistan or has border clashes where they kill Pakistani soldiers.


D: Now Iran is joining in the action.

All 3 of Pakistan's neighbours are bombing this "mighty" nuclear giant.

[Bengal_Tiger]

iran would realistically get its ass kicked by any country with a modern air force. iran is still flying phantoms from the 60s and its air defenses can't handle modern aircraft. its greatest asset is its missile program.

1: Iran has modern planes e.g. Migs

2: Their air defence is strong and can take down US drones.


Iran Airforce Power And Ability - YouTube



Iranian Migs:

IRIAF MiG-29 - YouTube



If Pakistan were so much stronger do you think the Iranians would be making threats of invading Pakistani territory. Plus they have already bombed Pakistan and killed Pakistani civilians.

The Pakistanis could not do anything.

[randolph85]

after a quick check, it seems iran has 25 migs whereas uzbekistan has 60. but there are various versions of the same aircraft so who knows how good these things are, but i would say that an older f16 could take out their model easily.

the thing about fighter jets is that if one country is using last generation tech vs current gen tech, the fight won't even be close.

US drones are not fighter aircraft, they are small, slow, and stupid technologically. for the one that iran took down, 100 probably had successful runs, we don't know.

If Pakistan were so much stronger do you think the Iranians would be making threats of invading Pakistani territory. Plus they have already bombed Pakistan and killed Pakistani civilians.

iran routinely makes declarations of being able to defeat america, so i don't think their threats against pakistan are so far fetched considering their rhetoric.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

1. The Iranian military is far superior to the Pakistani "army" in many ways.

a: The Iranians were in disarray after the Iranian revolution and then there was a war with Saddam, this war lasted under a decade. Hundreds of thousands died in the biggest war in the world after the second world war.

The entire Arab world (bar Syria) supported Saddam pouring billions. The Iranians resisted and held their territory.

b: The point is this is a country which has had at least 8 years of total war of the entire country being organized on the basis of defending itself against a foreign enemy. Pakistan has never had anything similar despite all their bravado and rhetoric.

In 1971 after the Indians moved their army in December (the previous 8 months it was Bengalis fighting) the Pakistanis folded quite quickly, including in West Pakistan. They could not defend their borders against India (in west Pakistan) the way the Iranians did against Iraq.

India took thousands of square miles of West Pakistan in 2 weeks or so, Iraq could not take Iran after 8 years. (When Pakistan tried to take a few heights in Kashmir in 1999 they failed, whereas the Indians in 71 took thousands of square miles).


c: Iranian troops have superior combat experience e.g due to the 8 year war with Iraq.

d: Iranians are the ones who trained Hezbollah, recognized as the best non-army fighting force in the world, felt by many to have defeated the regional military superpower that is Israel.

e: Iran's military designs itself to be able to take on these countries:

i: Turkey, NATO's 2nd biggest army and biggest army in Europe
ii: Iraq
iii: Saudi Arabia, a huge purchaser of arms
iv: Israel
v: An attack from America

Pakistan is weaker than all of the 5 above and is a piece of cake in comparison.


Pakistan's military history


- Lost half of the country to Bengali guerillas in 1971.



American-backed Pakistani soldiers surrendering in Bangladesh in 1971.

- Lost parts of West Pakistan in 1965 when the Indian forces crossed the border and even reached Lahore, the Lahoris were only saved by Bengali soldiers of the East Bengal Regiment of the then Pakistan army, some of these Bengali regiment soldiers were later killed in 71 simply for being Bengali.

- Lost parts of west Pakistan in 1971 to India which India only restored to Pakistan after Pakistan begged India to do so.

After Pakistan begged, India gave land back under the Simla agreement.



- See more at: http://storyofpakistan.com/the-simla....qDCi0UHe.dpuf

- Were defeated in Kargil in 1999 when they attacked India.



Indian soldiers retake positions in Kashmir after being attacked by Pakistani forces.


- Have been defeated by TTP and Pashtun fighters many times in the 2000s resulting in them giving control of some parts to these groups at certain times.


- Have not been able to defeat Balochi rebels and two years ago the then Pakistani prime minister, Gilani, spoke of a referendum on Balochistan i.e. he was prepared to give up 44% of Pakistani territory.



There are two insurgencies in the country now, 50,000 people have died. Large parts of the biggest city and main economic centre have a Taliban presence or control. Terrorists who have killed soldiers and civilians may now be "negotiated" with i.e. the army was unable to crush them.


Pakistan is a mess, a failed state, a state with a shameful history of defeat and humiliation.

To compare it with a powerful country like Iran is an absolute joke.

Bengali Spay Don't post wrong info

Your comparing Iraq with India?are you insane?The paramilitary forces of pakistan are more than enough to Keep a country of Iraq strength at bay for decades to come

bengali **** smeller,Listen

In 1965 war we had also captured many cities of india.

In 1971 bengali like you betrayed us.And joined the kafirs.

Reasons

*Bangladesh was thousand miles away
*only 34thousand PA troops were in bangladesh while surrounded by india from all side and ******* bengalis like you
*Our troops had no supply
*Because of naval blockade their was no way to supply anything to our troops
*Bangladesh is surrounded by india from all sides
********s like you were blood thirsty for us and hence million *******s like you were also against the PA troops

How the hell can 34k pa trooops and odd 50k paramilitary survive a war that has no supply line against 50million bengali and 1million indian army?

Thank God we seperated from **** heads like you guys.infact it would had been a shame to call you people as Pakistanis.the world will be mocking us now if you guys were also part of us.

About kargil

1998 we had nothing under us.
After kargil we got 2 highest peak such as the peak 5353.A artillary on peak 5353 can strike all the strategic point in the region

About war with iran.

They can try whatever they want.but i am sure they are not stupid enough.

You can lick iranian ass while they don't even consider you guys as human.You can ask them and i am sure they will call you people as sub human.

But still now i have alot of respect for iranian govt and leaders.

Because i believe as long as we don't accept our problems,we will remain so forever.

Yes Pakistan is responsible because our soil is used against iran.Iran has long back assured Pakistan the despite friendship with india.They will never allow iran soil to be used against Pakistan.

Pakistan is responsible.But I am sure they are not stupid enough to try this.Because they are well aware of the fact and the difference between the Pakistan armed forces and iranian armed forces.

After having interaction with bengalis like you.I Thank Allah,We are not part of anything like this sub human creature

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

A quick comparision of Pakistan and iranian military firepower from a neutral source

http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.asp?form=form&country1=Pakistan&country2=Iran&Submit=Compare+Countries

[Bengal_Tiger]

after a quick check, it seems iran has 25 migs whereas uzbekistan has 60. but there are various versions of the same aircraft so who knows how good these things are, but i would say that an older f16 could take out their model easily.

the thing about fighter jets is that if one country is using last generation tech vs current gen tech, the fight won't even be close.

US drones are not fighter aircraft, they are small, slow, and stupid technologically. for the one that iran took down, 100 probably had successful runs, we don't know.



iran routinely makes declarations of being able to defeat america, so i don't think their threats against pakistan are so far fetched considering their rhetoric.

Much of what you have said is correct.

1. Iran is not as strong in terms of equipment as many would think after hearing about it so much on the media (though soldier to soldier, they trained Hezbollah, who are better than the Israelis).

2. On paper Pakistan is militarily stronger....however the Pakistanis are definitely more scared of the Iranians, then the Iranians are scared of the Pakistanis e.g. the killing of fishermen, bombing of Pakistan etc.


The question now is, would the Iranians send soldiers in to Pakistan to catch rebels?

I would say yes....if even the much weaker Afghan National Army bombs Pakistan, than the much stronger Iranian army will not just bomb it but send soldiers inside its territory.

However Iran does have a policy of intimidating others by being threatening, way beyond its actual military capability - resource wise.



Aside from the Iranian factor, there is also the factor that the Pakistani army is a poor one.

Da Bannu Mazdigar
This message is hidden because Da Bannu Mazdigar is on your ignore list.

Da Lahore Mazdigar, kindly please stop quoting me and following me around the forum and posting on my threads. I do not post on your threads, nor do I quote you (as you are on my ignore).

Thank you for your co-operation.

Bye.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

A small 560tons FAC manufactured by karachi shipyard is not even regarded a corvette by PN standard while iran call 600tons Ships as Destroyer.

Funny comparsion

http://tribune.com.pk/story/422950/pns-dehshat-navys-second-fast-attack-craft-launched/

When such tonnage ship is manufactured.Not even our defence minister visit the ceremony while in iran they invite president for manufacturing a midget submarine of 200tons.

KSEW manufactured a midget submarine of 270tons in 1987.While iran in 2009.

Pakistan has manufactured french Agosta90B in karachi of total 2200submerged displacement.While iran the best so far in manufacturing is of only 600tons.

we are striking a deal with china for 6 submarine by the end of this year.All of them to be AIP capable.and most Important submarine launched cruise missile capability is the most important part of it.

israel dolphin class submarine can be equipt with upto 10 SLCM's.Each cruise missile as per various sources upto 200kt while the one dropped on Hiroshima was just 12kg.it means Each Dolphin class submarine can destroy a country of bangladesh size even if israel is completely destroyed and the submarine is the only remaining asset of israel

Than imagine 6 yuan class with 3600tons displacement.22 SLCM's carrying capacity.Babur cruise missile SLCM variant with 1000-1500km range and 300kg payload.

So there is no comparision between iran and pakistan military might.they are atleast 3 decades behind Pakistan in military arena.

Iran currently is in negative growth while pakistan picked it upto 5% this year.iran GDP has reduced to 396billion dollars as per many sources.which means by 2020-22 we can cross them easily

bengali cat get this into your posterior aka brain

[afghan]

something is wrong with pakies, any country that deals with pakistan threaten it to send the troops into pakistan. pakistan cannot handle bunch of talibans how is it going to deal with iran.

[Smarty]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Force

Just look at iran air force history,I believe Even bangladesh air force is better and has better history than Iran air force

Now look at Pakistan air force

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Air_Force

*Against India we created several records

We hold a kill of 144 indian aircraft so far with the loss of only 51.

*Against israel air force

we Hold the kill of 9 against israel air force with loss of zero

*Against soviet union

We hold the kill of 9-12 aircraft with the loss of zero

*Pakistan was among the very few countries to shoot down a UAV.in 2002 a Pakistani F-16 shot down israel made searcher UAV even when it was within indian border

BVR capable aircrafts

*64 f-16,14-18 to be recieved more.And PAF want a total of close to 100.

*50 JF-17 already inducted,With Production of block II already begun.

*A total of 67 mirages were upgraded to rose standard and all of them are BVR capable

*the F-7pg of PAF are capable of firing BVR though i beleive non of them are integrated with

Vis a vis Iran doesnt has any modern BVR.

in SHort Iran doesnt has any fighter more capable than JF-17 in its arsenal at the moment which we produce at home and are soon going to export to Sri lanka.Perhaps saudi arabia in future aswell

Pakistan so far has Exported Trainer aircraft to Iran.While we have never imported anything from iran.

Pakistan has 3 destroyer of close to 4000tons displacement,4 F-22p with 3200tonnage,4 more on order,1 OHP with 4200tonnage and 2-3 are pakistan to get between 2014-16

While iran best ships are 1300tons.I don't know how the hell they classify it as Destroyer.

So their is no comparision between iran and pakistan conventional forces.

Despite big GDP their Budget is only 6billion while Pakistan Defence budget in 2011 was soured upto 941billion pkr or 9billion dollars.This year it might be beyond 10billion dollars.while a seperate budget of 3billion dollars for nuclear program..

So their is no comparision between iran and pakistan military capabilities.even north korea warns USA.this doesnt mean north korea is stronger than USA.
Just because of warning Pakistan can't go on invading iran.

So put this all into your ass,Since i know you brain is in your posterior.

The only reason i believe your against Pakistan is the rape born childs in Bangladesh by Pakistan army.and you could be one of them

Pakistan air force look superior than iranian air force which is quite in pathetic state .....on the other hand iranian navy is larger than pak navy in the statistics you posted but i guess air force is more useful in war. Iran has oil, it can sustain long war compared to pakistan.
Pak army has acquired free cobra helicopters and spare parts for F-16 from america at the cost of blood of pakhtuns....congrats to punjabi dhalkhors for being militarily superior to ayotullah ****s.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

Pakistan air force look superior than iranian air force which is quite in pathetic state .....on the other hand iranian navy is larger than pak navy in the statistics you posted but i guess air force is more useful in war. Iran has oil, it can sustain long war compared to pakistan.
Pak army has acquired free cobra helicopters and spare parts for F-16 from america at the cost of blood of pakhtuns....congrats to punjabi dhalkhors for being militarily superior to ayotullah ****s.

Their navy is superior in numbers because they consider 500tons ships as destroyer.

Even the Pakistani destroyer of tonnage close to 4000tons are not true destroyer..Destroyer around the world are more than 8000tons on average.

Other than this Pakistan navy saw alot of delays from 2007-13.And all the projects are started again.The submarine deal was suppose to be signed in 2009.With 4 of them to be manufactured in Karachi while initiall 2 from China.

Their best ships are imported one and 3 decades old with tonnage of only 1100tons.and the most funny part is none of them has any SAM coverage more than 7km :D

Pakistani ships like f-22p And the under manufacturing Big brother of F-22P aka f-23P.

F-22P has a chinese reverse engineered french crotale medium range SAM.though the naval variant has a range of 30-35km.
HQ-16 coming soon with the f-23P has a range of 80km..


I wont post more about this but to tell you in Short we have ordered 8 more FAC's.and beleive me our fast attack craft with only 500-600tonnage are far more powerful than their so called 500tons destroyers

anyway

Pakistan has 11 frigates all of them more than 3000tons.4 more on order and `1 already under construction.THe new order has HQ-16 SAM.

We have a total 8 Submarine and all of them has the displacement of more than 1500tons...we have many midget submarine and are only used by SSGN.but they are never counted into the list.

Iran only Good submarine are kilo class which are already close to 3 decades older.Older than the agosta70 of our which we want to gift to bangladesh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Republic_of_Iran_Navy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Navy#Naval_Fleet

Beside this in future.Today we are capable enough to manufacture our own ships which are design by firms like GIDS in the upcoming gwadar shipyard.which if i am not wrong will come operational this year

Iran has carried out indigenous effort i agree.But they are still like 20 years behind Pakistan.

Not because we are superior to them but rather they don't have access to third party.Such as we can get help from turkey or china but they can't.

GIDS has shown a design of stealth corvetter to navy in 2011.And it is beleived that Navy will order for of them in 2014.
Complete design is pakistani and only 1000tons tonnage estimate

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

Pakistan air force look superior than iranian air force which is quite in pathetic state .....on the other hand iranian navy is larger than pak navy in the statistics you posted but i guess air force is more useful in war. Iran has oil, it can sustain long war compared to pakistan.
Pak army has acquired free cobra helicopters and spare parts for F-16 from america at the cost of blood of pakhtuns....congrats to punjabi dhalkhors for being militarily superior to ayotullah ****s.

Khudey ta gora,Zama Pakistangul che parsighul sara bya compare nakay :D