Pakistan army massacres Pashtuns in Waziristan

[khushal]

The Tribal warlords want the Pak army to be there, in fact most of them took up arms against the Taliban, a lot of the Talibs are from Chechnya and Central Asia.

Even if the Tribes withdraw their support for the Pak army, the army still has the right to exterminate any threat since FATA is part of the federation,ie.g the Falklands are a semi-autonomous territory of Britain but the Brits have troops there for reasons related to national interests

Even if that is the case, then its the tribal warlords fight against the Talib, let them handle it. Chechnya and central asia claims have been debunked a long time ago.

The violence is there because the pak army is there. There was no violence before the pak army invaded and the only reason the pak army is there because the US is paying them to do their operations which have been failures and many innocents have suffered.
here is a pro pak news source:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/12...rea-where-say/
http://www.firstpost.com/world/pakis...n-1298975.html

Could you cite any legit sources?According to the Int'l News Safety Inst. nine reporters died this year in Pakistan and none of them were killed in FATA.

exactly, they have not been killed in FATA so then that debunks your claim.
hyatullah khan was killed because his reports contradicted Pakistani official reports about some militants death.
here is one that was abducted by paksitani police:
http://www.cpj.org/blog/2013/09/chis...r-pakistan.php

saleem shahzad was killed for exposing Pakistan:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...a_fact_filkins

There are many who were killed and no one claimed responsibility and the TTP has a habit of claiming responsibility on the ones they have targeted.

[Badlun]

Why Pak army is killing Pashtuns only in Waziristan and not in Karak for example where there are no Taliban?

Will you blame army exclusively and you will totally ignore Taliban and terrorism in Waziristan? Why are we so much subjective and biased?

[khushal]

Why Pak army is killing Pashtuns only in Waziristan and not in Karak for example where there are no Taliban?

Will you blame army exclusively and you will totally ignore Taliban and terrorism in Waziristan? Why are we so much subjective and biased?

In reality, the people known today as the ttp were targeting afghan and nato forces in Afghanistan with Pakistani aid. Those same people turned their guns on the Pakistani State after realizing that the Pakistani state is supplying afghan and nato forces in Afghanistan.

The TTP is a reaction to the double dealing of the pak army so to answer your question,yes, the pak army should be blamed exclusively.

[Shehbaz Khan]

Shahbaza,
The army shouldn't even be there. Plus why is the army keeping journalists out of the area. What are they hiding.

Why you think that the Army shouldn't be there? And who told you that the Army is keeping Journalists out of the area?

[gadoonwal]

pakistan army keeping journalists out of waziristan to make fool of the world and pashtuns.
badlun sb,,,,,,
waziristan is bordering afghanistan where pakistan army training terrorists like haqani network to keep the war on in afghanistan.To destroy pashtuns and afghanistan.
Hamid gul has got the remote control for every sucide bomb in pashtunkhwa and waziristan.
why not a single school bomb in punjab?
I understand some pashtuns like fazlullah,omar etc are fall into the hands of isi but they do not represent the broader society.
Pakistan army is the army of evil and they are paid servants of pentagon.
It is joint game of cia,m16 and isi to keep this dirty war on passhtun soil.
Swatians are the most loyal pakistanis and in fact they are more pakipied region of pashtunkhwa and look what punjabis done to them.
Do,nt expect anything good from the army of maharaja ranjeet sing.

[Pakwatan]

pakistan army keeping journalists out of waziristan to make fool of the world and pashtuns.
badlun sb,,,,,,
waziristan is bordering afghanistan where pakistan army training terrorists like haqani network to keep the war on in afghanistan.To destroy pashtuns and afghanistan.
Hamid gul has got the remote control for every sucide bomb in pashtunkhwa and waziristan.
why not a single school bomb in punjab?
I understand some pashtuns like fazlullah,omar etc are fall into the hands of isi but they do not represent the broader society.
Pakistan army is the army of evil and they are paid servants of pentagon.
It is joint game of cia,m16 and isi to keep this dirty war on passhtun soil.
Swatians are the most loyal pakistanis and in fact they are more pakipied region of pashtunkhwa and look what punjabis done to them.
Do,nt expect anything good from the army of maharaja ranjeet sing.

My friend, you are very paranoid and perhaps insane.


The situation that occurred was quite complicated.

The truck stop offered TTP protection because of Pashtunwali, but they didn't know that they were hosting criminals.

Your views are inconsistent and void of all logic. Sometimes, TTP is Pakistan army death squad. Then you change your views that TTP is right for fighting Pakistan Army. Can you make up your mind?

If TTP is your Khoda then why they are attacking and killing Pashtuns more then anyone else?

Because they are Pakistan Army death squad, right?

But why are they fighting against the Pakistan army?

Please explain to me, so that I can understand you.

[jankhan]

Why you think that the Army shouldn't be there? And who told you that the Army is keeping Journalists out of the area?

Shehbaz Khana wrora, you are saying like you don't know anything.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Quotes from forumpakistanidefence.com, a militant right wing Pakistani nationalist site:

The Army was not even ambushed in the area which was bombed indiscriminately. They shelled and leveled the main marketplace, the govt school and the main mosque, as well as a number of houses. Unfortunately this is not an isolated incident. The Army has been using heavy artillery on civilian population since the start of the conflict. Destroying houses, shops and even entire fields of crops just because they want a "clear line of sight" is commonplace.

It is a shame that in the 21st century we have a draconian law such as the FCR still applied in FATA. Pak Govt and Army are trying to rule FATA with the same laws which were used by the British. Just goes to show that the Army does not see itself as liberators but occupiers. I know of a case where the authorities destroyed the shop of a man in Peshawar because one guy from his tribe in Waziristan was with the TTP, and according to the FCR the whole tribe will be collectively punished. Imagine this in the 21st century!

Skull-Buster Post 22.

Another Baluchistan/East Pakistan in the making. The same institutes in Pakistan are breaking their own country like they have done in the past. Don't be surprised if flags are burnt and anti-state elements take up arms in this part of the country. We'll never learn. Let's be real, there's no difference between the Pakistan Army and US tactics. From indiscriminate US drone strikes to such brute and senseless operations. It's becoming very clear that Pakistanis have a much bigger problem to deal with and that's not the US, but it's the Pakistani army. Nothing but outrageous.

BaburMissile Post 25


Both posters are Pakistani nationalist Pashtuns, one from the Hazara division and one from elsewhere.


Army Shelling In Mir Ali Kills Dozens Of Civilians - Social & Political Issues Forum - Pakistani Defence Forum



From the complete non-reaction from Pashtuns including the ANP or PMAP it seems to me majority of Pashtuns in Pakistan are happy with Pakistan, and many are "Pathans" (Punjabized Pashtuns).

If this had been another nation the massacre of 53 people would have lead to total mayhem. Peshawar and Quetta would have been paralyzed with general strikes. There would have been rioting with fights with the police. Peshawar would have been cut off from the outside world with Peshawar airport closed. The 1 million Pashtuns in Lahore would have demonstrated.

People like Bengalis and Turks would never have accepted something like this. Bengalis rioted for their language let alone for the loss of lives.

Even the Sindhis made Sindhi an official language in Sindh but Pashtuns in KPK who are far more numerous and have influence still have not done the same today in Pashtunkhwa.

I don't know what to say to the poor people of Mir Ali and Waziristan except to make sincere du'a that the Pakistan army is defeated and destroyed. Mullahs have pumped nonsense that to reject Pakistan is to reject Islam and that loving Pakistan and Pakistaniyaat is a religious obligation. I don't know how far this nonsense has penetrated Waziris but Pakistan and Islam are not synonymous.

Make sincere du'a people of Waziristan, at Tahajjud, after the fard salah (namaz), after tilawah (reading Quran) for peace in Waziristan.

[Shehbaz Khan]

Shehbaz Khana wrora, you are saying like you don't know anything.

The problem is you can't please each and everyone of you. When Imran calls for an end to Operations in Waziristan he is seen as a Talibans apologist. When we call for an operation we are killing Pakhtuns. And yes, not to forget that this particular incident took place when the Army was attacked. So you don't want Army to retaliate.

PS: FATA means Federally Administrated Tribal Areas. And as far as I know the Army comes under the Federal Govt as well. So the use of Army for law enforcement in any part of Pakistan whether it be FATA or any other place by the Federal Govt isn't something extra-ordinary. Yes in the case you don't consider FATA to be a part of Pakistan than you are right what you claim to be that Pakistan's Army must not be there.

[Talal]

There is going to be an operation in North waziristan it is inevitable. All this talk of the "talks" is hogwash. The army as far as I know is right now building consolidating areas around NW, these skirmishes will continue because the taliban know that army is coming sooner or later so they try to hit out when they can and the army retaliates in form of these targeted strikes. Ultimately the taliban and the army know there will be a final showdown in North waziristan.

[gadoonwal]

My friend, you are very paranoid and perhaps insane.


The situation that occurred was quite complicated.

The truck stop offered TTP protection because of Pashtunwali, but they didn't know that they were hosting criminals.

Your views are inconsistent and void of all logic. Sometimes, TTP is Pakistan army death squad. Then you change your views that TTP is right for fighting Pakistan Army. Can you make up your mind?

If TTP is your Khoda then why they are attacking and killing Pashtuns more then anyone else?

Because they are Pakistan Army death squad, right?

But why are they fighting against the Pakistan army?

Please explain to me, so that I can understand you.

your lack of understanding my point.
i always said ttp is a gang of criminals ,,isi,,and thugs they are killing pashtuns so the napak army can make dollars from US aid.
It is well organised criminal gang operated directly from GHQ.
The gev media group is supporting these criminals.
The isi chief is the head of ttp criminals.
Whoever ask for the rights of pashtuns ttp attack them the next day why?
whoever speak against them ,,isi,,agenst kidnape them and even sLaughter them.
I have seen with my own eyes during swat drama when isi set up an office in batkhela .They hired uzbiks for slaughtering pashtuns.
Pakistan is far worst then isreal.
It is a great threat to islam and world peace.

[khushal]

There is going to be an operation in North waziristan it is inevitable. All this talk of the "talks" is hogwash. The army as far as I know is right now building consolidating areas around NW, these skirmishes will continue because the taliban know that army is coming sooner or later so they try to hit out when they can and the army retaliates in form of these targeted strikes. Ultimately the taliban and the army know there will be a final showdown in North waziristan.

An operation isn't going to accomplish anything Talal. You forget that the TTP has sanctuary now on the other side. They are more emboldened in their efforts as they know the US has withdrawn and the Afghan forces have interest in not only leaving them alone but aiding them if not directly, then at least covertly.
The new TTP leaders base of operation is in Kunar, not N Waziristan. I don't see the TTP disappearing any time soon and that is why Imran Khan says that the operations only sets Pakistan back. They are breeding resentment from their own people.

[khushal]

The problem is you can't please each and everyone of you. When Imran calls for an end to Operations in Waziristan he is seen as a Talibans apologist. When we call for an operation we are killing Pakhtuns. And yes, not to forget that this particular incident took place when the Army was attacked. So you don't want Army to retaliate.

PS: FATA means Federally Administrated Tribal Areas. And as far as I know the Army comes under the Federal Govt as well. So the use of Army for law enforcement in any part of Pakistan whether it be FATA or any other place by the Federal Govt isn't something extra-ordinary. Yes in the case you don't consider FATA to be a part of Pakistan than you are right what you claim to be that Pakistan's Army must not be there.

Shehbaz Khana, The pak army only went to FATA in the past with the permission of the tribes. They never went in without their permission. The reason for the violence is because they are their without permission.

You are right FATA means what you said, but you forget that the fed agent administers the area through negotiations with the tribes. They are autonomous which means they police themselves. The Pak army has broken the pact and their own constitution because the US paid them to break it.

[khushal]

Why you think that the Army shouldn't be there? And who told you that the Army is keeping Journalists out of the area?

Its not me that thinks it, its the Pakistani constitution that says it. You ddo realize that these incidents are the first time the pak army has gone to FATA.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3020552.stm


as for your second question:
http://www.cpj.org/reports/2013/05/p...khan-aatif.php
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapc...kets.pakistan/

read the 3rd paragraph in the CNN article

[Talal]

An operation isn't going to accomplish anything Talal. You forget that the TTP has sanctuary now on the other side. They are more emboldened in their efforts as they know the US has withdrawn and the Afghan forces have interest in not only leaving them alone but aiding them if not directly, then at least covertly.
The new TTP leaders base of operation is in Kunar, not N Waziristan. I don't see the TTP disappearing any time soon and that is why Imran Khan says that the operations only sets Pakistan back. They are breeding resentment from their own people.

oh yeah I absolutely agree with that, to be honest Imran Khan does get the point and I think he is putting his own neck on line because of his stance but he is right. We need talks, we need political reforms and provincial autonomy we cannot afford to keep up this bloodshed.