Afghan 'lovers' found beheaded

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Badlun is not only a kafir but he is also what Muhammad sal allahu alayhi wasalam called a dayuth.

[M17ArnoBaloch]

Who decided that 18 is the beginning of adulthood?

Westerners.

[M17ArnoBaloch]

I will not allow my daughter to have sex before she is 18 years old. Once she is an adult, a mature human being then I am not responsible for her acts and choices.

The question is not whether you are responsible for her acts or not, the question is that would you be "fine" with daughter sleeping with other men? Would you be ok with it?

[khushal]

So in other words institutionally sanctioned mobish thugs. sounds much worse.

laws are made by the people, there was a trial in this case by the people. Thugs act without any trial. Just like Singapore flogs individuals for people convicted in court for graffiti. no sane person would call that institutionally sanctioned mobish thugs.

[khushal]

I think I am clear what I proposed. Marriage before say 30 years is very difficult. What an adult will do for 12 or 15 years of the precious part of youth? Marriage difficult and premarital sex a sin? Aand because of this sin the beheading and stoning.

My solution is to consider Zina(fornication and adultery) to be only the sex without consent. We can interpret Islamic injunctions in this way as zina bil jabar is never mentioned in Qur'an. Only Zina is mentioned and the only definition of zina can be forced sex.

This way young people can have love, sex and no fear of beheading and stoning. If millions of other people can do it why not Muslims? Why Muslim and Pashtun youth should suffer?

Sexual revolution evolved with birth control. All societies in the past regarded premarital sex and adultery as socially unacceptable, it was regarded as a major sin and major crime. The reason for this was because an innocent child would have been the consequence of such an act. In reality females are regarded as property of the male. Males can never be sure if the child born is his unless he keeps a close eye on the female, in evolutionary biology, this is called mate guarding. The female is always 100% sure the child is hers so most of the violence came from the male side and the punishment to the female side. Females were kept guarded.

As societies figured ways to control birth, sex became a non issue. Today in western societies, premarital sex and adultery is no issue at all. Today the big issue involving sex is teen pregnancy where a child is born to teenagers who are unable to take care of them which again its about the child.

When evolutionary biologist read this article, they think about mate guarding. These things happen in all societies because we are all human and our evolutionary make up is still there.
See here: There are thousands of these cases all over the world. Your solution of free love does not really solve the problem since it happens in the west.
http://www.nairaland.com/161637/man-...wife-self-over
http://www.ekantipur.com/2013/06/24/...ry/373760.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...angle-son.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ting-wife.html

Every year there are hundreds if not thousands of cases where husbands kill their wives because of adultery or boyfriends killing their cheating girlfriends in America alone.

[khushal]

I have no need for mastering the details of suitable punishments for adultery or premarital sex. Good to know that you are quite educated on the subject. Not that beheading is any less of a punishment than begin stoned to death. And what would you do with the remaining of your life after going through humiliation like that??

if you don't know the details, then you should not comment on it otherwise you would look like an idiot just like you did right there. We initially had doubts you were an idiot, but because your comments were made without knowledge, those doubts are now removed.

[DaZahroJaam.]

i would love to talk and all that but Desperate Housewives is not going to watch it's self on it's own. yawn***
shoo..

[RevolutionThroughReason]

laws are made by the people, there was a trial in this case by the people. Thugs act without any trial. Just like Singapore flogs individuals for people convicted in court for graffiti. no sane person would call that institutionally sanctioned mobish thugs.

Having a legal system that advocates thuggery; is still thuggery; ...and Singapore: that's because the Singapore thugs are committing crimes AGAINST other/public property, not offending the ego/pride of people in matters dealing with someone else's life.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

This is the issue. My daughter will be brave enough and educated enough that she will protect her against the sexual wolves not me to defend her like a weakling. She will be a complete human being so will not need my help any more. I will not let her to depend on me or on her brother the whole life. Woman as man is a complete human being.

She will be a towering self confident strong personality that without her choice no one will dare even to look at her.

Why you are worried about the daughters why not sons. Do you know that many teenagers boys are used by men in Pashtun society?

Society and legal system also have to do a lot in this connection. Have you ever been to a beach or even a nudity beach in any western country? Can you really touch the naked or the half naked girl there without her choice? No you cannot but yes you can molest , harass and abuse many Pashtun women in the dark streets of a Pashtun village in their burqas.

Ghairat is this that you are strong, educated, prosperous, assertive and self confident not this ghairat that you beg for food, seek refuge in infidel lands, polish boots of others but your daughter should be your slave in the 4 walls of the house.

It seems to me you're trying to look for some pretext to Promote Osho's moral corruption into a topic which has no relevance to any of that.

The problem here is that they were beheaded for offending the ego of the woman's family. They were going to marry BY THEIR OWN choice; so the fornication/zina issue is not even a factor here. There is no evidence of zina in the first place; so your rant is unnecessary and frankly stupid.

Zina means ILLEGAL sex ..Illegal sex in islam is defined as anything which is not within the Islamically accepted boundaries; which is CONSENT WITHIN marriage. Zina Bil Jabar simply means lack of consent, this can happen within marriage or outside marriage and that is just ONE form of Zina; but a Sexual relationship outside of Marriage that is consented is STILL ZINA, but not Zina Bill Jabar.

There is NO justification for reinterpreting this since the overwhelming evidence shows that extra-marital sex is always shunned by Nabi(saw).

If there is Zina then The death penalty is not accepted in Islam for unmarried partners; only whipping is according to the Qur'an.

That means that Pashtun culture and Pashtun culture alone is to blame for this.

[Badlun]

The question is not whether you are responsible for her acts or not, the question is that would you be "fine" with daughter sleeping with other men? Would you be ok with it?

If the daughter is a mature, adult full human being then this is she who should be fine or otherwise with her decisions. Why should I be fine or not. I am responsible for her education, economic support, upbringing as a child but once she is adult , then there starts her own life and soon she will have her own children and responsibilities.

The same should be for sons not only for daughters. I am completely gender sensitized and I believe in the equality of woman and man.

[Badlun]

Sexual revolution evolved with birth control. All societies in the past regarded premarital sex and adultery as socially unacceptable, it was regarded as a major sin and major crime. The reason for this was because an innocent child would have been the consequence of such an act. In reality females are regarded as property of the male. Males can never be sure if the child born is his unless he keeps a close eye on the female, in evolutionary biology, this is called mate guarding. The female is always 100% sure the child is hers so most of the violence came from the male side and the punishment to the female side. Females were kept guarded.

As societies figured ways to control birth, sex became a non issue. Today in western societies, premarital sex and adultery is no issue at all. Today the big issue involving sex is teen pregnancy where a child is born to teenagers who are unable to take care of them which again its about the child.

When evolutionary biologist read this article, they think about mate guarding. These things happen in all societies because we are all human and our evolutionary make up is still there.
See here: There are thousands of these cases all over the world. Your solution of free love does not really solve the problem since it happens in the west.
http://www.nairaland.com/161637/man-...wife-self-over
http://www.ekantipur.com/2013/06/24/...ry/373760.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...angle-son.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ting-wife.html

Every year there are hundreds if not thousands of cases where husbands kill their wives because of adultery or boyfriends killing their cheating girlfriends in America alone.

This is a very realistic and highly reasonable approach. With birth control the things changed.

This is what I am saying that if one can have birth control , no pregnacies, no sexually transmitted diseases, and cannot marry then the only alternative remains is premarital sex otherwise many years of the youth are wasted.

[DaZahroJaam.]

badlu, if you don't mind me asking, how old might you be??

[DaZahroJaam.]

okay, you do mind me asking. the point is, what you are suggesting is not a solution meant for our type of people. the reason these "lovers" were killed was not because no one wanted to take responsibility for their child, had they had one to begin with. the reason they were killed was because what they did was immoral. you can distribute all the birth control pills you want, it's not going to convince people in to accepting or tolerating this sort of behavior from their kids. there are good attributes of a culture and then there are the bad ones. expecting decency from our children regarding of what religious beliefs we have in afghanistan or anywhere else is not something that we need to be ashamed of or let go of because this is the 21th century and since every once else is doing it, it's an inconvenience or too much to ask for. just because others have given up on the idea doesn't mean we should, too. of course, that shouldn't mean we slaughter those who step out of the ways of moral conduct but what you are suggesting is not a solution. islam has been misinterpreted alot and it is a great idea to question it's merits from time to time but there is no need to go against it's teachings when the rules do make perfect sense.
relationships have become so meaningless in the west exactly because of the solution that you are suggesting. even if it wasn't for religious reasons, self discipline builds the character.

[Badlun]

okay, you do mind me asking. the point is, what you are suggesting is not a solution meant for our type of people. the reason these "lovers" were killed was not because no one wanted to take responsibility for their child, had they had one to begin with. the reason they were killed was because what they did was immoral. you can distribute all the birth control pills you want, it's not going to convince people in to accepting or tolerating this sort of behavior from their kids. there are good attributes of a culture and then there are the bad ones. expecting decency from our children regarding of what religious beliefs we have in afghanistan or anywhere else is not something that we need to be ashamed of or let go of because this is the 21th century and since every once else is doing it, it's an inconvenience or too much to ask for. just because others have given up on the idea doesn't mean we should, too. of course, that shouldn't mean we slaughter those who step out of the ways of moral conduct but what you are suggesting is not a solution. islam has been misinterpreted alot and it is a great idea to question it's merits from time to time but there is no need to go against it's teachings when the rules do make perfect sense.
relationships have become so meaningless in the west exactly because of the solution that you are suggesting. even if it wasn't for religious reasons, self discipline builds the character.

I usually avoid personal discussions to personal contacts and I do not know how my age has any thing to do with the subject matter? what matters is idea not person.

I understand what you are saying but what is then your alternative? At the age of 18 one should have sexual relations. Educational pursuits usually end at the age of 25 or more. Then you have search for job or some other source of earning. Then marriages are highly complicated and expensive so what a young man or woman will do from 18 to say 30 years of age? These are precious 12 years. Early marriages are again not a solution.

My suggestion is that Zina should be declared only forced sex. As marriage is sex with consent. Once you are a couple then the whole world is your witness. And what do you thing of Mutta marriage?

If we take some legal steps in these lines then such young lovers will not be beheaded. Society changes with new legal frameworks.

[DaZahroJaam.]

why not taking serious steps towards getting rid of extravagant marriage ceremonies instead?? i asked for your age because i am trying to figure out where you are coming from with your ideas. you are making it seem like no one in afghanistan gets married before the age of 40. that is not true. if anything, there is a great issue of people getting married while they are too young. why should people have to have sex before marriage?? they have been doing all right with out it for decades and centuries, why is it so important all of a sudden?? and what makes you think that two adults of the opposite gender run away from home only so they could engage in to that sort of an act to begin with?? there are plenty of other things one could be doing with their life for 18 or 30 years if they didn't fixate on the idea of sex as much.
as for zina, it already has a definition, it does not need to be named after something else which it is not just so those who find it difficult to stick to the rules could have it their way.
there are lots of things that need steps taken towards of, legalizing prostitution is not one of them.