Afghan 'lovers' found beheaded

[khushal]

I highly doubt that if this man's sister or daughter was involved in a scandal as such, he would be as kind to them as he hoped for others to be in his case.
Obviously the Islamic thing to do would be to stone them to death but if anyone has a genuine objection, they must provide a sensible alternative option. It's meaningless to have objections in matters that one hasn't figured out the answers to on their own.

Actually, your wrong. For premarital sex, its lashes, not death and there are no stones involved.

[khushal]

not a mob style beheading by a bunch of ego bruised men.

your actually describing this wrong. Its not a mob style lynching. This is usually done through a Jirga and the accused are given a chance to defend themselves against the accusations. Tis the law of the land, to change this, you must change the law. To change the law, one must take measures to prevent this from happening and find an alternative law that has to be satisfactory to the public. If you cant satisfy the public, you cant change the law. There is the key.

[khushal]

This is a paradox in Pashtun and Muslim society. Completion of usual educational career takes 25 years of life. If you marry earlier you may lose your educational pursuits. Then marriages are highly complicated and expensive in Pashtun and Muslim societies. What an adult at the age of 16 or 18 up to 26 years or 35 years of life will do before marriage? A paradox!

Cannot marry owing to various reasons and cannot indulge in extra-matrimonial sex because it is sin! Once he or she will be able to marry a lot of important years of youth are gone. Millions of Pashtuns and Muslims are suffering because of this paradox.

What is the alternative? Mutta as Shiites do and they prove it that Mutta is Islamic even from Sunni sources. Or consider safe sex with mutual consent as an act of joy not a sin and the sin in Islam is zina bil Jabar when one is forced into sexual relations.

What is marriage? It is mutual consent for sexual relations. Marriage can be for months, years or the whole life. Divorce or separation is always the option if things do not work.

That's why the best way is girl and boy friendship which can be called an act of mutual consent till one marry formally. This alternative is successfully functioning in non Muslim societies in both east and the west.

you are messed up individual.

[Kushan Prince]

what has your taqiyya about pashtunwali to do with islam? did you not insulted the arabs here also on this thread with calling saudi arabia capital of gay.you act more like a kafir you must be a muttah child of a yamanai in usa.now wrak sha sta da........

He insults Arabs on here when the funny thing is he is half Arab himself!

[DaZahroJaam.]

This is a paradox in Pashtun and Muslim society. Completion of usual educational career takes 25 years of life. If you marry earlier you may lose your educational pursuits. Then marriages are highly complicated and expensive in Pashtun and Muslim societies. What an adult at the age of 16 or 18 up to 26 years or 35 years of life will do before marriage? A paradox!

Cannot marry owing to various reasons and cannot indulge in extra-matrimonial sex because it is sin! Once he or she will be able to marry a lot of important years of youth are gone. Millions of Pashtuns and Muslims are suffering because of this paradox.

What is the alternative? Mutta as Shiites do and they prove it that Mutta is Islamic even from Sunni sources. Or consider safe sex with mutual consent as an act of joy not a sin and the sin in Islam is zina bil Jabar when one is forced into sexual relations.

What is marriage? It is mutual consent for sexual relations. Marriage can be for months, years or the whole life. Divorce or separation is always the option if things do not work.

That's why the best way is girl and boy friendship which can be called an act of mutual consent till one marry formally. This alternative is successfully functioning in non Muslim societies in both east and the west.

Badlyn, marriage loses its purpose when divorce is considered an option before one goes in to that commitment. The reason two people consent to being in a relationship in front of witnesses and by law is to protect each other's rights. If your partner leaves you tomorrow, no innocent man or woman is manipulated in to marrying someone who has not been honest about his or her previous relationships. Chastity is required of a proper Muslim or Muslima. You can't deny that.
That people don't get to marry until a later stage of their life in Afghanistan is a different matter. It is a problem that should be solved properly. Just because people can't afford to get married should not mean that we start allowing two consenting adults to live under the same roof with obvious intentions of having a sexual relationship. That does not solve the problem.
Now just because they were living together, I am not saying they were having a sexual relationship but they were both aware of the consequences of their actions and they chose to go ahead with it regardless.

Khushal, learn the difference between you're and your and then try correcting me. Just for the record, you're wrong.

[khushal]

Khushal, learn the difference between you're and your and then try correcting me. Just for the record, you're wrong.

OK. I will try.

I am right though. you err in knowing the difference between adultery and premarital sex. The two in the article had premarital sex, not adultery. You always have this problem of not reading completely or understanding what you're reading. I can help if needed, just ask nicely.

[DaZahroJaam.]

I have no need for mastering the details of suitable punishments for adultery or premarital sex. Good to know that you are quite educated on the subject. Not that beheading is any less of a punishment than begin stoned to death. And what would you do with the remaining of your life after going through humiliation like that??

[Badlun]

you are messed up individual.

I think I am clear what I proposed. Marriage before say 30 years is very difficult. What an adult will do for 12 or 15 years of the precious part of youth? Marriage difficult and premarital sex a sin? Aand because of this sin the beheading and stoning.

My solution is to consider Zina(fornication and adultery) to be only the sex without consent. We can interpret Islamic injunctions in this way as zina bil jabar is never mentioned in Qur'an. Only Zina is mentioned and the only definition of zina can be forced sex.

This way young people can have love, sex and no fear of beheading and stoning. If millions of other people can do it why not Muslims? Why Muslim and Pashtun youth should suffer?

[Badlun]

Badlyn, marriage loses its purpose when divorce is considered an option before one goes in to that commitment. The reason two people consent to being in a relationship in front of witnesses and by law is to protect each other's rights. If your partner leaves you tomorrow, no innocent man or woman is manipulated in to marrying someone who has not been honest about his or her previous relationships. Chastity is required of a proper Muslim or Muslima. You can't deny that.
That people don't get to marry until a later stage of their life in Afghanistan is a different matter. It is a problem that should be solved properly. Just because people can't afford to get married should not mean that we start allowing two consenting adults to live under the same roof with obvious intentions of having a sexual relationship. That does not solve the problem.
Now just because they were living together, I am not saying they were having a sexual relationship but they were both aware of the consequences of their actions and they chose to go ahead with it regardless.

Khushal, learn the difference between you're and your and then try correcting me. Just for the record, you're wrong.

I used the word divorce for marriage and separation of boy/girl friendship. No doubt once you are married formally, religiously, socially and officially then divorce should be the last option. No one should marry thinking in divorce. Marriage if last for the whole life is beautiful. One should have children once formally married.

Separation is the option for a loving couple but yet not married.

If you are in an informal relationship then no pregnancy and safe sex should be the priority. If the sex is safe then I do not know why chastity is such an important element before marriage.

These organs are like hands, feet and the use of an organ does not make it bad . The only danger is any disease or pregnancy. If these two aspects are taken care of, I do not see any problem with sex with mutual consent.

This can be love, can be joy and even a spiritual act. I do not know the rationale why premarital sex with mutual consent and safety is a sin?

[randolph85]

badlun, honest question, would you let your daughter sleep around with men before marriage?

[Badlun]

badlun, honest question, would you let your daughter sleep around with men before marriage?

I in another discussion with other members have replied in detail to this usual question as once we are done with other arguments we become personal.

I will not allow my daughter to have sex before she is 18 years old. Once she is an adult, a mature human being then I am not responsible for her acts and choices.

My approach in this regard is very clear. I will educate my daughter in such a way that at the age of 18 she will be intelligent and wise enough to decide on her own in a responsible way. If she wants to have any relationship with any one of any form then being an adult Pashtun Muslim Human being she will definitely take the best decision for her.

I being a father and her friend will no doubt always guide her but will never force her neither to sleep with some one or not. This is also Islamic approach that no one can be responsible for others and every one take his/her own burden. Every adult individual is free what to do and what not to do within the constitution and legal framework of the country where you reside.

More if my children are of some other orientation I will also understand them and will respect them.

Remember Islam or Pashtunwali is not only restricted to women or sex. One can be a brave Pashtun if his/her children are fully educated, prosperous and then the children lead the way they want. Yes up to 18 years we must educate them about the faith of Islam and the culture and society of Pashtuns but these have nothing to do with sex or no sex.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Who decided that 18 is the beginning of adulthood?

[randolph85]

I in another discussion with other members have replied in detail to this usual question as once we are done with other arguments we become personal.

I will not allow my daughter to have sex before she is 18 years old. Once she is an adult, a mature human being then I am not responsible for her acts and choices.

My approach in this regard is very clear. I will educate my daughter in such a way that at the age of 18 she will be intelligent and wise enough to decide on her own in a responsible way. If she wants to have any relationship with any one of any form then being an adult Pashtun Muslim Human being she will definitely take the best decision for her.

I being a father and her friend will no doubt always guide her but will never force her neither to sleep with some one or not. This is also Islamic approach that no one can be responsible for others and every one take his/her own burden. Every adult individual is free what to do and what not to do within the constitution and legal framework of the country where you reside.

More if my children are of some other orientation I will also understand them and will respect them.

Remember Islam or Pashtunwali is not only restricted to women or sex. One can be a brave Pashtun if his/her children are fully educated, prosperous and then the children lead the way they want. Yes up to 18 years we must educate them about the faith of Islam and the culture and society of Pashtuns but these have nothing to do with sex or no sex.

that is pathetic on your part and i am very embarrassed for you to be honest. throwing you daughter, hypothetical or real, to the sexual wolves based on the arbitrary number of 18 or based on anything else. being the aloof idiot father you are, you feel you have no responsibility of your daughters hypothetical whoring and you have no problem with it. you call yourself a pashtun nationalist? i hate nationalists but even pashtun nationalists have some ghairat in them that doesn't let them **** out of their mouths like you have done. i am wondering what your angle is, pashtun nationalists have pretend ghairat and muslim pashtuns have real ghairat, but the main theme is ghairat. you have no shame and are a real piece of work.

[Badlun]

that is pathetic on your part and i am very embarrassed for you to be honest. throwing you daughter, hypothetical or real, to the sexual wolves based on the arbitrary number of 18 or based on anything else. being the aloof idiot father you are, you feel you have no responsibility of your daughters hypothetical whoring and you have no problem with it. you call yourself a pashtun nationalist? i hate nationalists but even pashtun nationalists have some ghairat in them that doesn't let them **** out of their mouths like you have done. i am wondering what your angle is, pashtun nationalists have pretend ghairat and muslim pashtuns have real ghairat, but the main theme is ghairat. you have no shame and are a real piece of work.

This is the issue. My daughter will be brave enough and educated enough that she will protect her against the sexual wolves not me to defend her like a weakling. She will be a complete human being so will not need my help any more. I will not let her to depend on me or on her brother the whole life. Woman as man is a complete human being.

She will be a towering self confident strong personality that without her choice no one will dare even to look at her.

Why you are worried about the daughters why not sons. Do you know that many teenagers boys are used by men in Pashtun society?

Society and legal system also have to do a lot in this connection. Have you ever been to a beach or even a nudity beach in any western country? Can you really touch the naked or the half naked girl there without her choice? No you cannot but yes you can molest , harass and abuse many Pashtun women in the dark streets of a Pashtun village in their burqas.

Ghairat is this that you are strong, educated, prosperous, assertive and self confident not this ghairat that you beg for food, seek refuge in infidel lands, polish boots of others but your daughter should be your slave in the 4 walls of the house.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

your actually describing this wrong. Its not a mob style lynching. This is usually done through a Jirga and the accused are given a chance to defend themselves against the accusations. Tis the law of the land, to change this, you must change the law. To change the law, one must take measures to prevent this from happening and find an alternative law that has to be satisfactory to the public. If you cant satisfy the public, you cant change the law. There is the key.

So in other words institutionally sanctioned mobish thugs. sounds much worse.