Egypts Salafis continue to embarrass themselves

[randolph85]

You are unable to read a paragraph of Quran and you judge people who spent years studying Islam and who sacrifice their own lives for Islam.

Sacrifice some of your time learning Islam.

Use your time for beneficial purposes. You wont obtain paradise with silly and childish posts on a forum ridiculing people because they sacrifice their lives for Allah.

you think the people who blow themselves up in the name of the taliban can read the quran in arabic besides the same memorized verses that we all know? lol if being able to read quran in arabic was the only measure of a muslim, then most of afghanistan would be kaffirs.


same old argument of claiming to know islam better than the detractors but having nothing to show for it.

[khushal]

Shamlawar,
Your using the language of tyrants like Hitler by implying that "you" or "certain individuals" should not be questioned because you or those people are "holy men" or "they know Arabic" or " know Islam because of the knowledge of Arabic." Even if this were true, does not mean that you or those individuals should be free from critique because you and them are human and humans are capable of being corrupt no matter what language they speak or the amount of knowledge they know about a certain religion.

Also the TTP organizes itself like a Jirga which is a democratic system which is why NATO and the Pak military have a hard time alienating them by killing its leaders. They have to either make peace with them or alienate the whole Jirga system which is close to impossible without killing a significant portion of the population that is why they have no choice but to choose the former.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Shamlawar,
Your using the language of tyrants like Hitler by implying that "you" or "certain individuals" should not be questioned because you or those people are "holy men" or "they know Arabic" or " know Islam because of the knowledge of Arabic." Even if this were true, does not mean that you or those individuals should be free from critique because you and them are human and humans are capable of being corrupt no matter what language they speak or the amount of knowledge they know about a certain religion.

You are using a defeatist language of people who invest hours arguing with people online but failing to invest a few hours a week to learn basic stuff in order to understand Quran better.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Also the TTP organizes itself like a Jirga which is a democratic system which is why NATO and the Pak military have a hard time alienating them by killing its leaders. They have to either make peace with them or alienate the whole Jirga system which is close to impossible without killing a significant portion of the population that is why they have no choice but to choose the former.

if you think a jirga is democracy then you dont know nothing about democracy or pashtunwali.

[khushal]

Partisanship is prohibited in Islam. Even if the parliament of a country would be free from shirk and kufr, muslims are still not allowed to create political parties.

Lets imagine an Islamic parliament where mps are not elected via normal democratic procedure but through councils based on merits, still it would be inpermissible to participate on behalf of a party. Because if the party decides against something which is haqq, you as a partisan would be obliged to remain loyal to your party. Thats why hizbiyyah/partisanship is prohibited.

This is an explanation of why you think the partisan system is doomed to fail but you have not explained anything against democracy.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

This is an explanation of why you think the partisan system is doomed to fail but you have not explained anything against democracy.

I have a whole thread dedicated to it and even pdf books posted on this forum. If you didn't bother reading, its your problem.

[khushal]

if you think a jirga is democracy then you dont know nothing about democracy or pashtunwali.

see your using the hitler tactic by not explaining why I am wrong but just say so like your some holy man spitting out holy words.

Explain how I am wrong because I think its you who know nothing about democracy or pashtunwali. pashtunwali gives haqq to members and so does democracy by giving every member the right to speak their own opinion.

[khushal]

I have a whole thread dedicated to it and even pdf books posted on this forum. If you didn't bother reading, its your problem.

Ok, and there are many books written to counter your books and if you did not bother reading them, it is your problem.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Ok, and there are many books written to counter your books and if you did not bother reading them, it is your problem.

Please post them. Lets see how many books claim democracy is not against Islam.

[khushal]

You are using a defeatist language of people who invest hours arguing with people online but failing to invest a few hours a week to learn basic stuff in order to understand Quran better.

Goman ma kawa. It is a major sin in Islam.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

see your using the hitler tactic by not explaining why I am wrong but just say so like your some holy man spitting out holy words.

Explain how I am wrong because I think its you who know nothing about democracy or pashtunwali. pashtunwali gives haqq to members and so does democracy by giving every member the right to speak their own opinion.

A jirga is a shura. In a Jirga or a Shura, the elderly, the people of knowledge and experience participate on behalf of their families and communities.

They are not elected via an election where thieves, looters, pimps and prostitutes can participate by investing money on posters, placards, flags and tv and radio ads making false promises.

So when people gather in a Jirga, they do so based on merits which are wisdom, respect within the community, piety, expertise in particular fields like Sharia or intertribal affairs etc.

In a strict Shar'i shura, only people who have the level of understanding of Islam above a layman are allowed to participate. Because the decisions of Shura need to be Sharia compliant and therefore, non-scholars cannot participate.

Take a look at your democratically elected parliaments which you like to see as a jirga or a shura, you have thieves, pimps, prostitutes, looters, drug dealers, corrupt former public servants, liars, traitors, etc participating and their decisions are not tested against Quran but rather against secular constitutions.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

[MENTION=1547]khushal[/MENTION] have you seen Umar Khalid Khurasani doing a tv ad for Mohmand agency asking people to vote form him so that he can be in the TTP shura?

[khushal]

Please post them. Lets see how many books claim democracy is not against Islam.

What is a Shura?

[khushal]

A jirga is a shura. In a Jirga or a Shura, the elderly, the people of knowledge and experience participate on behalf of their families and communities.

They are not elected via an election where thieves, looters, pimps and prostitutes can participate by investing money on posters, placards, flags and tv and radio ads making false promises.

So when people gather in a Jirga, they do so based on merits which are wisdom, respect within the community, piety, expertise in particular fields like Sharia or intertribal affairs etc.

In a strict Shar'i shura, only people who have the level of understanding of Islam above a layman are allowed to participate. Because the decisions of Shura need to be Sharia compliant and therefore, non-scholars cannot participate.

Take a look at your democratically elected parliaments which you like to see as a jirga or a shura, you have thieves, pimps, prostitutes, looters, drug dealers, corrupt former public servants, liars, traitors, etc participating and their decisions are not tested against Quran but rather against secular constitutions.

This does not mean it is not democratic and they are elected, people choose them, they don't go there by force or because they are related to someone. When thieves, looters and murderers can enter the political system, that just means that the people in charge of upholding the law are not doing their job. It does not mean that democracy itself is at fault just like when muclims are slaughtering themselves, it just means those individuals have strayed from Islam, one can not blame Islam for it.

By definition, A Shura is a democratic system.

[khushal]

Take a look at your democratically elected parliaments which you like to see as a jirga or a shura, you have thieves, pimps, prostitutes, looters, drug dealers, corrupt former public servants, liars, traitors, etc participating and their decisions are not tested against Quran but rather against secular constitutions.

Also this is not a democracy because in reality the people are trying their best to take these criminals out, they can not do it by a vote because the voting system is controlled by the criminals, so they do by the only other option they have, by the gun which is why the Taliban are so strong and undefeatable.

the criminals are there because American guns are protecting them. take those American guns out of the equation, and you would not see those criminals in such powerful positions. That is democracy in action. Pushtuns are very democratic, if their opinions are suppressed, they will use any means necessary to unsupress them.