UAE stops $12 billion Turkish energy deal

[Tjanaparh]

Here I agree, in the case of choice Russia was always far more human to minorities inside themselves.
About Tukey role in the rest of Islamic world, except my region, I am honestly not informed at all.
I don'T say you are not informed, surely much more informed than me.
But Muslim issues are not always easy to understand for me.
I know the problems with Ataturk and the Young turks, most of them were not even ethnic Turks.

[Tjanaparh]

India and Pakistan's missile range.

India and Pakistan do not have ICBMS.

America, Russia and China do and now Turkey is planning to make its own ICBMS which can hit any place on earth.

To me every country who has such missles and nuclear weapons are criminals.
I mean not the people but the individuals who take and carry on such decisions.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Here I agree, in the case of choice Russia was always far more human to minorities inside themselves.
About Tukey role in the rest of Islamic world, except my region, I am honestly not informed at all.
I don'T say you are not informed, surely much more informed than me.
But Muslim issues are not always easy to understand for me.
I know the problems with Ataturk and the Young turks, most of them were not even ethnic Turks.

To keep it simple and to put the whole "Muslim" thing out of it.

If today the president of Armenia said to Spain that they should do X, Y and Z e.g. not put ETA terrorists in prison or allow Catalans to be independent this would be regarded as a breach of all diplomatic convention.

In simple terms this is what the Erdogan/Gul regime in Ankara have done with Bangladesh.

[Tjanaparh]

They are very active in this in all our region as I said. And have always been.
If you go to Geogia you will see that it gets slowly colonized by Turkey.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Correction*

India does have ICBMS.

- America
- China
- Russia
- France
- Britain

* Israel, suspected (most probably)

are the only other countries to have ICBMs alongside 1 billion + population Asian giant, India.

Turkey wants to join this very, very exclusive list of BIG BOYS.

[Tjanaparh]

Dear Bengal Tiger, may I ask You a question.
How is the relation between India and Bangladesh?
I mean in the sense that there are Bengalis in India too, what are relations, problems etc?
By the way, did You know, a quarter of Armenias capital is called "Bangladesh", it was done after Bangladesh got independent:

[Bengal_Tiger]

1. Thanks for the pictures.

I am of course quite delighted that a foreign country such as Armenia chose to name a place in its capital after my country.

2. In the future I may write a long detailed post about Indian-BD relations.

Suffice to say they are in between the two extremes presented by some people. We are neither eternal friends and "brothers", but nor are we ultimate enemies. India is not as evil or as wonderful as some present it (in the future I may say who says what).

It is a big neighbour with a big power complex that tries to exert influence in Bangladesh, but for its part fears fundamentalism (and also Pakistani-backed fundamentalism/militancy). It is to be quite frank also very dishonest in that it signs agreements which it never honours, whilst the Bangladeshi government does. In other words it cheats the Bangladeshi government.

Maybe it is something similar to Ukraine - Poland relations, but I wouldn't say as bad as Baltic States - Russia relations.

Maybe similar to Afghan-Iran relations or possibly even less hostile.

Defence.pk idiots and razakars (pro-Pakistan collaborators in Bangladesh in 1971) exaggerate things.

However I personally hope for healthy and normal relations between Bangladesh and India.

In another thread I will talk more about this.

[SiiNii]

India and Pakistan's missile range.

India and Pakistan do not have ICBMS.

America, Russia and China do and now Turkey is planning to make its own ICBMS which can hit any place on earth.

Why is this relevant when Turkey doesn't have nuclear warheads, or any nukes of their own?

[Bengal_Tiger]

1. The first atom bomb was produced in the 1940s and this is old technology older than the first IBM apple desktops, 1960s cadillacs etc. Contrary to what many claim it is actually easier to produce than many think or the media claim.

If a third world backwards country like Pakistan can make it, do you think Japan can't?
So Turkey getting nukes if they really wanted to wouldn't be difficult.

There are quite a few states which are though to either have nuclear weapons or easily able to do so e.g. Brazil, Japan etc

2. Why does Turkey need missiles that can strike Brazil, Japan, New Zealand?

Does Turkey - which has a population smaller than Bangladesh, Pakistan, the Philippines, Indonesia - have territorial disputes with Brazil, Japan, New Zealand?
No, this is clearly about asserting their power and also intimidating others. I have read Turkish nationalists/Kemalists on other fora clearly gloating about their planned ICBMS and how it will scare rivals.

Turks are a nationalism-crazed nation that are filled with a diet of extreme nationalism and militarism and to a degree racism e.g. against Arabs, Kurds etc.

The fact that an ultra-nationalistic country which has wiped out 3,000 Kurdish villages (Israel since 1948 has done nothing like this) and made 2-3 million Kurds refugees would have ICBMs is a threat to global peace.



A destroyed Kurdish village in Turkey.

Turkish police beating up unarmed Kurds.

Turkish policemen beat up Kurds. Турки избивают курдов. - YouTube

[SiiNii]

1. The first atom bomb was produced in the 1940s and this is old technology older than the first IBM apple desktops, 1960s cadillacs etc. Contrary to what many claim it is actually easier to produce than many think or the media claim.

If a third world backwards country like Pakistan can make it, do you think Japan can't?
So Turkey getting nukes if they really wanted to wouldn't be difficult.

There are quite a few states which are though to either have nuclear weapons or easily able to do so e.g. Brazil, Japan etc

Japan has operated many nuclear power stations for four decades
Turkey is planning to build its FIRST power plant in a few years

Japan has its own space program and solid fuel rockets
Turkey is planning to have a space program with foreign assistance

Japan is one of the most industrialized high tech nations in the world
Turkey is planning to ... ?

I'm going to be skeptical of any future analysis coming from the Bengal Tiger

[Bengal_Tiger]

Japan has operated many nuclear power stations for four decades
Turkey is planning to build its FIRST power plant in a few years

Japan has its own space program and solid fuel rockets
Turkey is planning to have a space program with foreign assistance

Japan is one of the most industrialized high tech nations in the world
Turkey is planning to ... ?

I'm going to be skeptical of any future analysis coming from the Bengal Tiger

Feel free to be skeptical of my analysis and question it. That is the point of a forum, to discuss and learn and have our mistakes corrected or correct others.

However what you said isn't really relevant to the points I made and in fact reinforces them.

As I said Japan is a modern country unlike 3rd world Pakistan, do you think if Japan wanted nukes and had the resolve to produce them that they couldn't? I am not talking about doing it tomorrow or next week but within a certain time period.

Turkey is planning to produce missiles with a range of 2,500km that is officially confirmed.

They haven't denied that they may increase it to 5,000km and some of their military-associated engineers or people connected with their arms industry talk of 10,000km on certain fora.

If Turkey stops at only a 2,500 km range missile then that is something that can be put up with (albeit reluctantly).

Click on this link to see what countries would be covered under Turkey's 2,500km missile range. Afghanistan comes under Turkey's missile coverage.





Uzbek warlord Dostum, who is supported by Turkey in Afghanistan.

However if it goes in to 5,000km it is clearly a security threat.

Why does Turkey need ICBMs?

1. America has them as they were the world's richest country post-WW2 and are the biggest white Christian country.

2. Russia was the biggest country on earth and did the most fighting to defeat Hitler in WW2.

3. China has the world's biggest population and is the 3rd biggest country on earth.

4. Britain had the biggest empire ever known to man including India up to WW2 and helped to defeat the Nazis.



5. The French were a massive global empire as well.




6. India has the 2nd biggest population at over 1 billion. They have over 1 billion mouths to feed so must protect their interests including their shipping which transports goods for their people.




Turkey?

Turkey has a population of approximately 70 million.

Turkey is a regional bully which bullies Greece and denies it right to use 12 nautical miles of their coastal territory and threatens war if Greece does so.

Turkey threatened Syria with war in the 1990s.

Turkey regularly violates Iraqi sovereignty and bombs Iraq.

Turkey breaks all diplomatic protocol and interferes in Egyptian affairs and insults the Egyptian government.

Turkey threatened Greece with war in the 1990s under the government of Tansu Ciller over a crisis in Albania.

It is an aggressive power and state, and a bully.

[Shah-i-Kot]

Japan has operated many nuclear power stations for four decades
Turkey is planning to build its FIRST power plant in a few years

Japan has its own space program and solid fuel rockets
Turkey is planning to have a space program with foreign assistance

Japan is one of the most industrialized high tech nations in the world
Turkey is planning to ... ?

I'm going to be skeptical of any future analysis coming from the Bengal Tiger

Japan is not an independent country (although a large segment of its population is very independent minded), but neither is Turkey in that regard, but to a lesser degree obviously.

With that in mind, they do not have much control over their economy. Economic decisions are made in DC. For example, the US sanctions on Iran oil prevent Japan from efficiently meeting their energy needs.

Japan was nuked in World War 2. Remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki? the only time in history, nuclear weapons were used, causing the deaths of millions.

[Shah-i-Kot]

UAE is not independent, and is ruled by a thug.

[Bengal_Tiger]

The Turkish regime's "Neo-Ottomanism" policy i.e. bullying of other Muslim countries and trying to order them around is producing more and more of a reaction in the Arab world.


Sassounian: Egypt Floats Genocide Recognition as Trial Balloon to Warn Turkey

The Arab Spring in Egypt has turned into a hellish summer with countless casualties.

Ever since the Egyptian military deposed President Mohamed Morsi, one particular foreign leader has been screaming the loudest, demanding his immediate reinstatement. That bellicose leader is Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the prime minister of Turkey, a staunch supporter of his fellow Islamist Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood.

Egypt's new leaders, backed by large segments of the population, were infuriated especially after Erdogan severely criticized Morsi's overthrow and the killing of hundreds of Muslim Brotherhood protesters. Using extremely harsh language, the Turkish prime minister condemned the Egyptian military for carrying out a massacre with its soldiers, police officers, [and] heavy artillery. Ironically, Erdogan called anyone who keeps silent in the face of injustice a voiceless devil.

There is no question that a human tragedy is unfolding in Egypt and becoming more critical with each passing day. While no one can remain indifferent to the killing and maiming of civilians, the prime minister of Turkey is the last person on earth who should be taking such a self-righteous attitude. Anyone who has blood on his hands has no right to demonize others! One does not have to go back into history and recall the genocides committed by Erdogan's forefathers against Armenians, Assyrians, and Greeks. Just a couple of months ago, the Turkish prime minister¢s own hands were soaked in blood when he proudly acknowledged that he had ordered the police to open fire on unarmed demonstrators in Istanbul, killing 5 people, blinding 11, and injuring 8,000 others. Thus, Erdogan has been stripped of all moral authority to lecture anyone else on democracy and civil rights.

Erdogan's repeated meddling in Egypt¢s internal affairs and his staunch support for President Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood escalated the hostilities between the two countries to such a degree that Egypt and Turkey ended up recalling their respective ambassadors. The worsening tension has jeopardized the $2 billion Turkish investment in Egypt and frozen the activities of 300 Turkish businesses in that country.

What a difference a year makes! In May 2012, when I was visiting Egypt on a lecture tour, a local newspaper refused to publish the part of my interview dealing with the Armenian Genocide. I was informed that given the close relationship between the two Islamist nations, it would be impossible to print anything against Turkey.

Curiously, after Morsi's unceremonious departure from power, a series of articles appeared in scores of Egyptian newspapers detailing the history of the Armenian Genocide, demanding that Turkey pay restitution to the survivors, and calling on Erdogan to acknowledge his country's criminal past.

To top it all, a surprising Twitter message was posted on Aug. 17 by Adly Mansour, Egypt's interim president, announcing that his country's UN representative tomorrow will sign the international document recognizing the Armenian massacres which were committed by the Turkish army, causing the deaths of one million people.

Even though Egyptian and Turkish newspapers widely reported the Twitter message attributed to the Egyptian president, we were unable to independently confirm its authenticity. However, it is clear that the current Egyptian government and media are intent on using the genocide as a way of getting back at Erdogan's heavy-handed interference in their domestic affairs.

Understandably, most Armenians are displeased that the victimization of their ancestors is being exploited in a political tug of war between the two countries. Yet, unfortunately, this is politics as usual. If Egypt's new leaders find it expedient to recognize the Armenian Genocide, this would be a welcome change. It is better to recognize the genocide, regardless of political motives, than not recognize it for all the wrong reasons! After all, no one can expect the Egyptian government to take a position on an issue, if it is contrary to its own national interests. In this regard, Egypt is no different from other countries, including the United States and Israel, which periodically dangle acknowledgment of the Armenian Genocide as a Damoclean Sword over the heads of Turkish leaders.

The final decision on the recognition of the Armenian Genocide depends on the concessions Cairo is expecting from Ankara. If Egypt, the most populous Arab state, recognizes the Armenian Genocide, then that would deal a devastating blow to the Turkish government's frantic efforts to counter the worldwide commemorations of the Genocide Centennial in 2015.


http://www.armenianweekly.com/2013/0...o-warn-turkey/




1. If Egypt recognizes the Armenian genocide it will be the first Muslim country in the world to do so.

2. Egypt is the biggest country in the Arab world in terms of population.


The Turkish regime of Gul/Erdogan and Davutoglu need to refrain from bullying other Muslim countries and trying to boss them around.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Below is an article from today which highlights the background which has caused the Egyptians to think of recognizing the genocide.

Turkey says Morsi still elected president of Egypt
Turkey has signaled that its Egyptian policy remains unchanged, saying it still considers now-deposed Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi the country's elected president.


A spokesman for the Turkish Foreign Ministry, Levent Gümrükçü, responding to a question during a press conference, said Turkey still considers Morsi, the first democratically elected president of Egypt who was ousted in military coup in July 3, to be the elected president of the North African country.

Earlier, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan had stated that he considers Morsi the president of Egypt as he was elected by the people of Egypt.
“Disregarding the will of the Egyptian people means disregarding yourself because in Turkey we respect the will of the people. We would respect the coup regime if they had won at the ballot box,” Erdoğan said in mid-July soon after the coup ousted the Egyptian president with whom Erdoğan enjoyed good ties.

Turkey's relations with Egypt deteriorated after Ankara harshly condemned the coup. Diplomatic ties have worsened when a military crackdown on two anti-coup protest camps in Cairo on Aug. 14 left hundreds of Egyptians dead. Ankara, in protest of the massacre, called its Cairo envoy back for consultations. In response, Egypt also immediately recalled its envoy in Ankara.

In a sign of a thaw, Turkey sent back its envoy to Egypt last Wednesday. However, Egypt has not reciprocated Ankara's move by reinstating its ambassador. The Egyptian side said they will not send the envoy back until Ankara stops interfering in Cairo's domestic affairs.

Egyptian Ambassador to Ankara Abderahman Salaheldin said a “gesture of goodwill” from Turkey would help his reinstatement to his post in Ankara, the Milliyet daily reported on Wednesday.
Salaheldin, who spoke to Milliyet on Wednesday, clarified the reason behind why he has not still returned to his post.

“The first thing is that the need for consultations arose. The second thing is that it is the envoy's show of displeasure about the capital where he is working. ... I must say that relations with Turkey are still very important, yet you will see when you talk to those in Egyptian streets that they have a very bad image of Turkey [in their minds],” Salaheldin maintained.
Gümrükçü refrained from commenting on Salaheldin's remarks, saying that it was the decision of Egyptian officials not to return their envoy.
The envoy added that people of Egypt had an unpleasant image of Turkey as the country hailed the Jan. 25 revolution in 2011 that overthrew the country's dictator Hosni Mubarak, but stood against the “rebellion" against the Muslim Brotherhood. Protests which called for departure of the now-deposed president ended in a military coup on July 3 in Egypt.

Turkey has found itself alone in strongly condemning the Egyptian army's ouster of Morsi and calling it a coup as well as in calling on the Egyptian military to restore the democratically elected government. Ties with Cairo have been strained by severe criticism directed against the coup administration by Turkish officials and a tit-for-tat spat grew between Egypt and Turkey.

“The people of Egypt think today that Turkey has taken sides with the Muslim Brotherhood,” Salaheldin claimed. He went on to say that Turkey should show the country that it is the friend of all Egyptians.

“Due to statements made by Turkish officials, the Egyptian people are disturbed. They are inclined to boycott Turkish goods. The business world is under pressure to boycott [Turkish goods],” added the Egyptian envoy.
The envoy also stated that although he was trying to return to Ankara, the military-backed government was under pressure from Egyptians to take a stand against Turkey.

Statements by the Egyptian envoy came at a time when a delegation from main opposition Republican People's Party (CHP) is visiting Egypt to have talks with officials from the coup administration and leaders of various political parties.

The CHP delegation, on the third day of the Cairo visit on Wednesday, met with a figure from the Brotherhood, a top Brotherhood negotiator Amr Darrag.

The CHP delegation discussed the latest development in Egypt with Darrag.
The delegation also met with Grand Sheikh of Al-Azhar University Ahmet el-Tayeb. No information was available as to the topics discussed with the country's leading cleric.
Tension between Turkey and Egypt has recently been renewed over Prime Minister Erdoğan's condemnation of Tayeb for his endorsement of the military coup. Erdoğan, stating that he was devastated by Tayeb's stance, had said that history will curse scholars like Tayeb for endorsing the coup.
On Tuesday, the CHP delegation met with Egyptian Foreign Minister Nabil Fahmy. CHP Deputy Chairman Faruk Loğoğlu told Today's Zaman that current bilateral relations and the future of those relations were discussed at the meeting.
“The Egyptian side emphasized the importance of these relations and urged Ankara to be careful in its relations with Egypt in order to avoid the further straining of ties,” said Loğoğlu.
Loğoğlu also added that the future of relations between the two countries depends on the Turkish government's stance towards the interim government in Egypt, adding that Turkey should pursue a neutral and inclusive policy in Egypt.
Fahmy had recently stated that Turkey had demonstrated a hostile attitude, not only by its statements, but also by the actions it took at an international level.

http://www.worldbulletin.net/?aType=...ticleID=117650



1. I totally support Egypt against these arrogant Turkish bullies.

2. Ottoman days are gone, the Ottoman Empire had its good points but ended with degenerate emperors, ignorance, backwardness, Turkish racial supremacism and humiliation.

It should not - and will not - ever be brought back.