What is the Difference Between Nationalism & Patriotism?

[erlangner]

So in simpler words, You want Pashtunistan?

hahahahhaahahha, you being the queen of our pashtunistan. You accep to be?

[erlangner]

Many Pashtun nationalists are allergic to the word Dari. How do you explain this?

same we are allergic to urdu here in pakistan but it has its reason and if such a reason is there for dari, then it also need to be hated.
See Urdu is imposed on pashtuns in pakistan, if dari is for the people who have this language as their mother tongue and then pashtun learn this as a language later by choice, then ok, i love farsi and urdu for literature, but if i must learn it, i will hate it. I learnt farsi here in germany in special courses.
Such things are resulting in this hate.

As far as what i mean you may be the princess, i just meant you to be happy in pashtunistan. If you are happy then you are queen.
It was just a joke dear.

[PFgulalai]

My nationalism stems from the realization of my ethnic identity of being a Pashtun than something else. Where ever I go I want to recognized as Pashtun and I make it sure I act like one.Besides that as a conscious Pashtun, I am aware of the plight of my people and I won't wait to become something 'big' to help them, rather I started my efforts from very early age. I am not sure about the big/small impact it is going to make, but I will try...I believe that the purpose of every nationalist movement, in this case Pashtun nationalism, should only be render services to one's nation..to improve the quality of life of the people and to provide the basic right of freedom. We need Pashtunistan for that because we have experienced that without Pashtunistan, we are not able to achieve that, although most of us have been able to achieve our 'personal goals'.
I am not just a supporter but I also work for regaining our right to be called as inhabitants of Pashtunistan. So far the geographical issues are concerned, my point of view is not very different--the vansihment of Durand line and the annexing of all Pashtun-dominated regions (we won't be able to achieve anything if remained divided on either side of the border) with Pashto being the official language of this state besides the preservation of our common heritage.
So far capital is concerned, I think this could be decided later with the consensus...
But...
'reaching a consensus' is what makes everything a heaculean task.
and yes...it might appear idealistic!

How do you explain your very own nationalism.

What are you doing to work for your interests, Are you a Pashtunistan supporter? If Yes, you have a lot of explaining to do in terms of how we need to achieve, what is going to be our capital and etc.

[PFgulalai]

We can have English to make the English and American happy as well!

Oh okay, of course I am happy and yes I will be the queen.

But what I don't get is why we cant have Urdu/Dari as official languages to make minorities happy.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

We Pashtuns are in no position to question about Nationalism. Our own people have sold out our National pride to Mullahs and Non Pashtuns.

The day all Pashtuna adopt Nationalism will be the day Pashtuns will be a strong nation.

If we continue to follow Eyptian Muslim Brotherhood we will continue to be as usual the mercenaries of outsides and their political interests.

Kind Regards

[شمله ور خراساني]

Definition

patriotism noun

/ˈpæt.ri.ə.tɪ.zəm/, /ˈpeɪ.tri-//ˈpeɪ.tri-/ n [U]

when you love your country and are proud of it


Definition of patriotism noun from Cambridge Dictionary Online: Free English Dictionary and Thesaurus

[شمله ور خراساني]

patriotism 1726, from patriot + -ism.chauvinism 1870, "exaggerated, blind patriotism," from Fr. chauvinisme (1843), from Nicholas Chauvin, soldier, possibly legendary, of Napoleon's Grand Armee, notoriously attached to the Empire long after it was history. Popularized in France 1831 through Cogniard's vaudeville "La Cocarde Tricolore." Meaning extended to "sexism" via male chauvinism (1970). The name is a French form of L. Calvinus and thus Calvinism and chauvinism are, etymologically, twins.patriot 1590s, "compatriot," from M.Fr. patriote (15c.), from L.L. patriota "fellow-countryman" (6c.), from Gk. patriotes "fellow countryman," from patrios "of one's fathers," patris "fatherland," from pater (gen. patros) "father," with -otes, suffix expressing state or condition. Meaning "loyal and disinterested supporter of one's country" is attested from c.1600, but became an ironic term of ridicule or abuse from mid-18c. in England, so that Johnson, who at first defined it as "one whose ruling passion is the love of his country," in his fourth edition added, "It is sometimes used for a factious disturber of the government."

The name of patriot had become [c.1744] a by-word of derision. Horace Walpole scarcely exaggerated when he said that ... the most popular declaration which a candidate could make on the hustings was that he had never been and never would be a patriot. [Macaulay, "Horace Walpole," 1833]

Somewhat revived in reference to resistance movements in overrun countries in WWII, it has usually had a positive sense in Amer.Eng., where the phony and rascally variety has been consigned to the word patrioteer (1928). Oriana Fallaci ["The Rage and the Pride," 2002] marvels that Americans, so fond of patriotic, patriot, and patriotism, lack the root noun and are content to express the idea of patria by cumbersome compounds such as homeland. (Joyce, Shaw, and H.G. Wells all used patria as an English word early 20c., but it failed to stick.) Patriots’ Day (April 19, anniversary of the 1775 skirmishes at Lexington and Concord Bridge) was observed as a legal holiday in Maine and Massachusetts from 1894.Online Etymology Dictionary

[شمله ور خراساني]

Definition

nationalism noun

/ˈnæʃ.ən.əl.ɪ.zəm/, /ˈnæʃ.nə.lɪ-/ n [U]

•
the wish for and the attempt to achieve political independence for your country or nation
•
a great or too great love of your own countryThe book documents the rise of the political right with its accompanying strands of nationalism and racism.

Definition of nationalism noun from Cambridge Dictionary Online: Free English Dictionary and Thesaurus

[شمله ور خراساني]

nationalism 1844, "devotion to one's country;" see nationalist. Earlier it was used in a theological sense of "the doctrine of divine election of nations" (1836). Later it was used in a sense of "doctrine advocating nationalization of a country's industry" (1892).ethnic late 14c., from Scottish, "heathen, pagan," and having that sense first in English, from Gk. ta ethne, used in Septuagint translation to render Heb. goyim, pl. of goy "nation," especially of non-Israelites, hence "Gentile nation." Ta ethne is from Gk. ethnos "band of people living together, nation, people," prop. “people of one's own kind,” from PIE *swedh-no-, suffixed form of base *s(w)e- (see idiom). Sense of "peculiar to a race or nation" is 1851, return to the word's original meaning; that of "different cultural groups" is 1935; and that of "racial, cultural or national minority group" is Amer.Eng. 1945; ethnic cleansing is attested from 1991.

Although the term 'ethnic cleansing' has come into English usage only recently, its verbal correlates in Czech, French, German, and Polish go back much further. [Jerry Z. Muller, "Us and Them: The Enduring Power of Ethnic Nationalism," Foreign Affairs, March/April 2008]

Online Etymology Dictionary

[شمله ور خراساني]

Both Nationalism and Patriotism are often used by people to describe different things.

Usually, people ascribe their own definition to words.

The trend towards nationalism among Muslims first became successful among Arabs in the 20th century.

It was usually tied to Socialism and Marxism.


Basically, it comes down to this: People who are ignorant and don't know better look for a word to describe something they wish to see that is not.

Pashtuns are not one nation. Therefore, there is no nationalism possible when there is no nation.

Considering the existence of ideological, ethnical and political differences, we cannot yet define Pashtuns as a nationality.

But people often confuse their own desired state with reality.

It is therefore most amusing and sometimes even funny to see people speak of "nationalism" while they themselves criticize Muslim unity based on the same things that divide Pashtuns.

Just like Muslims are divided in different countries, with different beliefs and ideologies, so are Pashtuns divided in two different countries. Aside from the existence of the political differences, Pashtuns are also divided in different religious sects. And if politics and religion was not enough, Pashtuns are extremely hostile among one another based on tribe and clan affiliation.

[شمله ور خراساني]

But isn't that the whole purpose of nationalism and patriotism? The right to fight for our land, and our own language? Yes we are divided. I confess and agree with you that we might not be the best when it comes to unity but nearly everyone on this site wants to see an independent Pashtun state.

In order to achieve that state we need to be nationalistic.

That's not true.

Nationalism divides people based on language and ethnicity.

If it is wrong to divide people based on religion, then why is it allowed to divide people based on language and ethnicity?

If we want equal rights and if we want to emancipate our language and culture, we should accept that Pashtuns are tied with non-Pashtuns in the region.

We are not on some iseland surrounded by water. We live among other people who have similar problems.

It's not like Persians are opressing us in Afghanistan and Punjabis in Pakistan. Our own Pashtuns are the opressors.

So who is preventing us from progress and development? People from other nationality, race or ethnicity?

No. It is people. Our own people.

If nationalism is going to solve our problem, then the problem must be related to nationality. I have already explained that that is not true.

It's like going to the doctor and complaining about aching back. And the doctor prescribing medication for skin rash.

Every problem needs a solution that suits it best.

The people who have preached nationalism for the past decades in Afghanistan and Pashtunkhwa are now the most corrupt bunch of traitors ever.

So why should we keep repeating the same thing over and over again?

When Nationalism was first introduced to Muslims in Arab countries, it failed miserably. Just study Egypts history. And you will understand.

As usual, poor Pashtuns always learn things too slowly. Nationalism already failed in the Middle East. So did Socialism and Marxism.

So why do we have to re-try everything that has already failed elsewhere?

[شمله ور خراساني]

And it further *unites* those who share a common language.

For example, Pashtun Nationalism will unite a Kandahary and a Kabuli and a Peshawari to all work for Pashtun means.

You are being very naive.

Just look at the leader of Pashtun nationalists on Pashtunforums, mister Strategistmaseed. He recently made several threads suggesting that Kandaryan are less Pashtun than others. he even made a thread about the first female flight attendant for Pakistan airlines who was a "Durrani".

They are not united. One prefers Yousefzai over others because he thinks yousefzi are better pashtuns than others. This is the state and condition of nationalists. They have contempt for Pashtuns from other regions and tribes. Just quizz them further, and
they will end up using profanity insulting the mothers and sisters of one another.

We have to fight for our rates as an ethnicity. We can be Muslims but sometimes we need our OWN LAND where my children alongside with your children can learn in Pashto, be educated in Pashto and write scientific analyses in Pashto.

Islam does not prevent you from emancipating. The problem is, that the means you choose for your goals must be defined. First of all, the reason why we are in such a state as we are now, is because people ascribe different causes to different problems without getting it right once.

The reason why we dont have decent literature and no formal language is because of our own fault. Pashtuns ruled the region for centuries. And they have never done anything for their language. It wasn't the Persians or Punjabis who prevented us from serving our own interests. It was the Pashtun political elite.

So who are you going to fight for your rights? You must have an opponent to fight or to struggle against to emancipate yourself. So who is it going to be? Don't tell me Nationalist never will pick another ethnic group to blame. Because that is actually the only option nationalists have. Always point their fingers at others. It's the wahhabis, the parsos, the punjabis. But its never the lazy, corrupt and alcoholic leaders who created this mess.

We are not trying to do what the Germans did to the Jews.

Study the history of Germany prior to the 3th reich. And study how nationalism was founded and how it evolved. And then study Afghanistan's current situation.

I'm sure you will reconsider your statement once you do that. For now, I'll just leave it at that.

Sangar brother, am I asking for too much? All Gulalai,Nadir Shah,Khyaal,Erlangner and others on PF want is a land where we can live how we wan to live without having Dari imposed on us. Right now Kabul University only teaches its lectures in Dari. Do you think Nokia Afridi wants to send his student to such a school?

Nadir Shah wants all of us to denounce Islam and become Marxist workers. Gulalai I dont know. But seems like a deluted person who is probably junior college student who reads everything but understands little. Erlangner is a cry baby who wants to notify FBI to have me arrested because I dislike his Ghani Khan quotes. Khyaal thinks I am a Punjabi posing as a Pashtun to divide and destroy Pashtuns future. Nokia Afridi insulted me and called me names because he found out that my mother is Tajik and I come from a mixed back ground.

What do you expect from this group of circus clowns? Most of them probably can't even read or write in Pashto.

Ay wror jaana, Pashto is being oppressed. Its the sole national language of Afghanistan yet everything is in Dari.

Who's fault is that? Ours or Persians? Who ruled Afghanistan for the past centuries? We did it to ourselves? So why bring ethnicity in to this? Why not be brave enough to admit our past mistakes and correct ourselves like rational human beings instead of blaming and accusing others?

People like Iran who want you to say Tashaqor instead of Manana.

Who's fault is that? Did any Persian force you to say tashakor? Which is Arabic btw. Not Parsi.

That is exactly what I am saying and why we need nationalistic Pashtuns to work for our improvement.

Nationalist turn people against one another based on ethinicty language, region and color. Dont forget that in Pashtun dominated areas there are minorities, such as Shaari, Tagawi, Nuristani and many other ethnic minorities. Are you telling me that those nice and cuddly nationalist who insult and use profanity on Pashtunforums are civilzed enough to treat those minorities with respect? These savage nationalist go around labeling any orthodox Muslim as a spy, a foreign agent, a terrorist and what not because. Imagine what they are going to do with people who speak a different language? Or look different?

But it prevailed with Banladesh didnt it

Banglades's solution was a revolt against opressors from other region. Pashtuns are the opressors of Pashtuns.
Karzai is not from another planet.

[شمله ور خراساني]

I have one thing to say to all of this. Please look at the reality. We can try to picture everything as we want it to be in our imagination. But that does not benefit us in a discussions. Since in a discussion, your opponent is going to judge your arguments based on their relevance and approximation to reality.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Lala, I have utmost respect for you in this community but you need to be a bit realistic in terms of the status of Pashtuns in Afghanistan.


Yes we have ruled the country since it was founded, Yes we founded it, Yes Pashto is the national language. But this is all in papers, We are fighting wars for this country, while all other ethnic groups of Afghanistan are siding with Nato.


Explain this to me and I will shut up and walk away, Why are we Pashtuns only defending this land? Why are our "hamwatan" Tajiks and Hazaras always siding against us?(Nato)

Even Nato recognizes the Tajiks as being there number 1 allies.

You should re-read my posts. And besides, you said that you disagree and you consider Tajiks and Hazaras to be ruling Afghanistan. Today there are more Pashtuns in the government of Afghanitan than ever before.

And to accuse Tajiks and Hazaras, you wont solve anything. Since the problem were and still are Pashtuns themselves. And the solution are and will always be Pashtuns themselves.

You are doing exactly what I described in two previous posts. You are blaming others for all of your lifes misery. This is a pathological symptom of Nationalism.

[شمله ور خراساني]

So you are saying that nationalism being associated with prejudice and racism is a conspiracy? And in reality,Nationalists are all angels?