What is the Difference Between Nationalism & Patriotism?

[erlangner]

have you ever condemned your bagwan, ghani khan who was a pervert and degenerate author suffering from alcohol addiction?

i will never condemn you if you sit whole day dry in masjid. But I will condmen you if you will impose your ideology. I say, you are pashtun, I am pashtun. You sit 24 hours in masjid, I drink a glass of wine in evening and have sitar mangae in evening, you do your job and I do my job.

Khoshal Khattak says>

Sheikh de moonz roja kree, za ba dakkay peyalae akhlam
Har sarae paida de, khpal khpal kar larra kanna.

SO I will respect your moonz roja, your masjid where you sit and offer prayers, and you will respect my hujra where I drink a cup of wine and then have sitar mangae.

Otherwise You can never be appreciated, and I will condemn you again and again.

[شمله ور خراساني]

[PFgulalai]

I guess there are many reasons to believe that yours and mine interpretation of nationalism is not really different (in this part).

To me nationalism is based on ethnicity/geography/language/culture etc. Nationalism seeks unity based on these principles. It means we shold be united because we have the above mentioned things in common..

[Nadir Shah]

Graana Qadarmana wrora,

How do you explain "Pashtun nationalism" In your very own words. Try to be as realistic as possible.


-Kandahary

The struggle for our political, economic, social and cultural rights as a Nation.

[PFgulalai]

It could be flawed for the reasons I don't know...but self-contradictory?

I never said her definition right I agree wih you that her definition seems to be a bit flawed and self-contradictory.

[erlangner]

Graana Qadarmana wrora,

How do you explain "Pashtun nationalism" In your very own words. Try to be as realistic as possible.


-Kandahary

See my brother, I am an intended nationalist, not by family. I see If religion will have been the solution, then muslims from east to west should have a same country on basis of pan islamism. But this ideology failed and this turned bacha Khan to be a nationalist.
Now what does pashtun nationalism mean for me>
Pashtuns on both sides of Duranline are one, and our first struggle should be the well being of pashtuns on both sides and then comes other people. Well being means unity, development, identity, culture promotion, language promotion, heroes identity, educations, and all the remaining welfare issues of Pashtuns.
Why?
Because I want a street in this global village to be named with Pashtun street, where development and prosperity flursihes and international community respect and see us as developed nations.

[PFgulalai]

..and a 'Nation' is a group of people having common ethnic origin, language, culture, history and heritage.

The struggle for our political, economic, social and cultural rights as a Nation.

[erlangner]

Sorry kandaharay wrora, i forgot to write about your word, try to be realistic.
See I observed many events in this short span of life, and I am much much sure, that time will unite pashtuns again, and this present destruction is due to this division. I again believe time is cruel and when it decides then no one can stop. Sometimes when I discuss the issue with friends, and they frightened me from the strong army of pakistan, but it never works, when time decides.
Now question will come, what is the time?
Time is the power, which the nations gains or sometimes given as a gift to enjy with.
Could someone imagine during ahmad shah era that ranjit singh will defaet badly pashtuns and will rule pashuns for such a time. But time was in ranjit singh favours, britains entered and wanted pashtuns to be week and so long story.
So it is my strong belief, as I believe in one ness of Allah, that this unity will come, perhaps not in my life, but it will come.

[Nadir Shah]

Fair enough, Now how do you expect this struggle to prevail?

Me, You and the Pashtun masses under a vanguard Nationalist party.

[Nadir Shah]

..and a 'Nation' is a group of people having common ethnic origin, language, culture, history and heritage.

Yes, but I would add the element 'common relevant interest' as another attribute. This, you see, is very important in today's world.

[Nadir Shah]

Ashanaya,

How do you explain this to me, I used to work for Afghan mellat, I know a lot of the heads of PMAP and ANP as well, nearly all of them are racist.

How do you explain this to me? Can one be nationalist and still care for others?

Malgariya, how is the policy, manifesto and discourse of the Pashtunkhwa MAP based on racism. Which leader of the Pashtunkhwa MAP are you accusing of racism? Did you not hear Mashar Mahmood Khan in the Kabul Jirga? Did he not say that "mung da heets insaan sara pr dey bunyaad nafrat na laru che ta zyarh ye, sur ye, speen ye, tor ye, africai ye, hindu ye, staa starge shne dee, staa paza peeta da'? Did he not say 'Ta ba zamaa da riwaaj ihteram kaye, za ba staa da riwaaj ihteraam kawom. Ta ba zamaa da jabe ihteram kaye, Za ba staa da jabe ihteraam kawom. Za ba staa da isteqlaal ihteram kawom, ta ba zamaa da isteqlal ihteraam hai." How is this racist?
I am a Pashtun nationalist. This does not mean that I hate all non-Pashtuns. Please try to get this:

'Nationalism does not mean that we consider ourselves superior to others. Indeed, it stems from the realization that we are backward, inferior (not in the strong sense) and powerless in many areas. Thus we endeavor to elevate our nation to it's rightful place among nations.'

[erlangner]

Yes, but I would add the element 'common relevant interest' as another attribute. This, you see, is very important in today's world.

This is very important point of relevant common interests. Then whenever any other ethnicitiy loot your resources and rights, then it is natural that hate will towards them but other ethnicites can share equal and can enjoy good friendship and relation. It is not solely dependent on your own ethnicity, as a human you will have to interact with others, and then it depends how they are dealing with you.

[PFgulalai]

I said people tend to confuse the two terms. If people introduce their 'vested interests in the' Nationalistic movement, it does not remain nationalism anymore...
The Pashtun nationalists are trying (if they are..) to work for gaining the rights to statehood for Pashtuns under Pashtun nationalism but at any point if their personal interests of any sort come first before the intersts of their qaam/ millat, that would be a discrimanation in my eyes.

The nationalists can give you many arguments why not to deem them racists but as I said, for the opppnents of nationalists, the best way to belittle them is to call them Racist. And that is where they tend to overlap the two different ideologies.

Your reasoning was contradictory in my opinion because on one hand you said its not racism, but then you said it might lead to racism.

That is a fallacy, You need to make up your mind.


and I apologize for not welcoming you here as I noticed you are new to the community we have present here, Pa khair raghlay, I hope you do not mind these kind of discussions where its not easy to agree with one another.

[erlangner]

Ofcourse bro, I don't deny that one has the natural inclination of clinging to what is close to him like his family, nation etc. I am saying that unity based on the principles of nationalism is futile and doesn't make us seem very enlightened beings. What I condemn is blind nationalism and not patriotism. Maybe we need to clear up what nationalism and patriotism is. We need to first discuss their definitions before we procdeed further.

Also siding with your group regardless of wether they are right or wrong should be condemned. If a muslim leader did wrong he should be condemned. You are right that people sided with their group even though they did wrong because of bias but such people are morally corrupt and this sort of behaviour should be condemned and not used as an excuse to justify more wrongs. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Brother, to define nationalism and patriotism, i will suggst you read the poem of ajmal khattak, entitled jannat.
What is mullah definition of jannat, what is sheikh, khan, labour, philosopher, etc etc all define it in diffferent ways, and same goes to nationalism.
I am not the nationalist who just abusing punjabis, and i love punjabis working for their ethnicity, but it shouldnt be on our costs. I hate and will hate such punajbis and any other race, who romote their propsperity on my ethnicity costs and to protect my ethnicity and to speak for it will be my nationalism.

[PFgulalai]

Manana!
I welcome differences of opinion for my own intellectual growth.Needless to say I am learning a lot from some of the members here.

and I apologize for not welcoming you here as I noticed you are new to the community we have present here, Pa khair raghlay, I hope you do not mind these kind of discussions where its not easy to agree with one another.