Pakistan air base under attack: officials

[randolph85]

Even if they do operations in north waziristan and clean up the whole area, they have alot of safe havens on the afghan side now and those safe havens are only increasing since NATO troops are decreasing..

i have no doubt that these offenses will be coordinated with the US, pakis make the talib flee and the US will finish them off in afg. the US has been pressing the pakis for years to mount an offensive and while it won't be against the haqqanis, the US will still be pleased. for the US it will be better for the pakis to attack the local support network of the haqqanis than do nothing at all. even if ttp elements flee to afghanistan, they will be in far more danger than when they were back at home and left alone.

[Shah-i-Kot]

i have no doubt that these offenses will be coordinated with the US, pakis make the talib flee and the US will finish them off in afg. the US has been pressing the pakis for years to mount an offensive and while it won't be against the haqqanis, the US will still be pleased. for the US it will be better for the pakis to attack the local support network of the haqqanis than do nothing at all. even if ttp elements flee to afghanistan, they will be in far more danger than when they were back at home and left alone.

Pakistan has been conducting a war in FATA since 2004, including inNorth Waziristan. The talk of needed NW operation is simply hyperbole and excuse for NATO/Karzai regime failure in Afghanistan.

They have lost over 7000 + Pak soldiers over that time

Its nothing new at all, and Pakistan does not have much control over much of FATA.

[khushal]

i have no doubt that these offenses will be coordinated with the US, pakis make the talib flee and the US will finish them off in afg. the US has been pressing the pakis for years to mount an offensive and while it won't be against the haqqanis, the US will still be pleased. for the US it will be better for the pakis to attack the local support network of the haqqanis than do nothing at all. even if ttp elements flee to afghanistan, they will be in far more danger than when they were back at home and left alone.

The thing is, these guys are like ghosts. an army with superior fire power can take territory easily but the problem is they cant hold it. As soon as the Army withdraws, the ghosts return. neither NATO, nor can the Pakistani Army defeat the Taliban militarily, it is close to impossible.

[Shah-i-Kot]

^^I think this is related to that

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/taliban-chief-says-his-fighters-have-infiltrated-afghan-forces-and-are-killing-foreign-troops/2012/08/16/89e3cbbc-e7df-11e1-9739-eef99c5fb285_story.html

[randolph85]

The thing is, these guys are like ghosts. an army with superior fire power can take territory easily but the problem is they cant hold it. As soon as the Army withdraws, the ghosts return. neither NATO, nor can the Pakistani Army defeat the Taliban militarily, it is close to impossible.

unlike the afghan taliban, the ttp are pretty ingrained in their power bases and have never been tested under a full scale assult. the paki military has never mounted an offensive to drive these people out of their power bases. the pakis exterminated the militants in swat, but that was a war they fought because they knew they could win it. until a couple of years ago, hakimullah was giving interviews without a care in the world, i suspect he has gone underground because he fears other ttp commanders more than the paki army.

unlike the afghans, the paki taliban are very divided among tribal lines and one faction can not travel as freely as one might think. drone attacks have done enough damage, a legitimate military assault by the pakis could do major damage if they are sincere about it and its not merely for show. time will tell.

[Afghanistan2010]

I welcome any offensive in that region especially in North Waziristan,why,it will be the end of the napak fooj-.

TTP is restrained from fighting further deep into civilized areas due to messages of Islamic emirate and to concentrate on NATO/US forces,because they won't be seen again soon in this area and they have enough time to take care of the pakistani military,if they are unleashed they will eat them alive.

[khushal]

unlike the afghan taliban, the ttp are pretty ingrained in their power bases and have never been tested under a full scale assult. the paki military has never mounted an offensive to drive these people out of their power bases. the pakis exterminated the militants in swat, but that was a war they fought because they knew they could win it. until a couple of years ago, hakimullah was giving interviews without a care in the world, i suspect he has gone underground because he fears other ttp commanders more than the paki army.

unlike the afghans, the paki taliban are very divided among tribal lines and one faction can not travel as freely as one might think. drone attacks have done enough damage, a legitimate military assault by the pakis could do major damage if they are sincere about it and its not merely for show. time will tell.

Dont underestimate these Wazirs and mosuds. They fight each other all the time which is why they know how to fight, but they easily unite against a common foe especially one that is an outsider.
Ive seen wazir who had a "badi" between families, but when a common outsider enemy approached, the "badi" was put on hold and they were united. They are fearless and they dont really care if they die in battle.
Its funny how this operation is timed at a time when US forces are being drawn down. Those militants will go to the Afghan side and create problems for Afganistan.

I really dont think the US wants the TTP to dissappear. They could use them against Pakistan in the future. Americans get obssessed with revenge(they used the afghan against the soviets for its vietnam failure and they refuse to open trade with Cube just because of the cuban missile crises that embarressed them on the international stage). Theyre failure in afghanistan is blamed on pakistan. If NATO really wanted the TTP to dissapear, they would just invade Waziristan themselves. They already have the pretext to do so.

[faye]

the families are all good fighters because they are always in conflict, khushal? but i thought ALL CONFLICT IN AFGHANISTAN AND PAKISTAN IS BECAUSE OF THE WESTERNERS. isn't that what you keep telling us?

[Friend]

I welcome any offensive in that region especially in North Waziristan,why,it will be the end of the napak fooj-.

TTP is restrained from fighting further deep into civilized areas due to messages of Islamic emirate and to concentrate on NATO/US forces,because they won't be seen again soon in this area and they have enough time to take care of the pakistani military,if they are unleashed they will eat them alive.

I don't think the tribals have got any power anymore. The mehsud tribe is said to be the most powerful tribe in wars but you see how they were kept quite and operation done there.
Pak army will do anything being ordered to them by their masters and whatever was in their interest. They are just waiting for a good time and good package offered by their masters. Also Pak army have their assets in NW.

[Shah-i-Kot]

funny thing is that they have had the pretext for years, the ttp have been killing civilians left and right shamelessly. they are probably afraid that they will kill some haqqanis while trying to kill paki talibs and they can't have that.

Militancy/insurgency, however one wants to term it exists in response to Pakistan's support for the US/NATO war. It is not the other way around.

[Shah-i-Kot]

i have no doubt that these offenses will be coordinated with the US, pakis make the talib flee and the US will finish them off in afg. the US has been pressing the pakis for years to mount an offensive and while it won't be against the haqqanis, the US will still be pleased. for the US it will be better for the pakis to attack the local support network of the haqqanis than do nothing at all. even if ttp elements flee to afghanistan, they will be in far more danger than when they were back at home and left alone.

http://zeenews.india.com/news/south-asia/no-operation-in-north-waziristan-pak-army_795698.html

No operation in North Waziristan: Pak Army


Last Updated: Saturday, August 25, 2012, 14:03



Islamabad: The Pakistan Army has reportedly announced that no military operation will be launched in the country’s North Waziristan region, despite having vowed to take on militants in the area only a few days back.

According to a statement attributed to the Army Headquarters, Miranshah, troops were not in North Waziristan to start operation, but to carry out uplift projects.

The radio quoted Army sources as saying that development will be done with the help of tribesmen, the Nation reports.

According to the paper, the Pakistan Army advised people not to listen to the speculations about the operation.

The radio also said Western media was hell-bent to destroy Pakistan.

Neither the Pak Army nor ISAF will be allowed to launch any operation in North Waziristan, it added.

ANI

[Shah-i-Kot]

[QUOTE]

unlike the afghan taliban, the ttp are pretty ingrained in their power bases and have never been tested under a full scale assult.

What was Paks 2004 war in Waziristan and their loss of over 5000 Pak soldiers. It was more than "full scale" however you define that.

the paki military has never mounted an offensive to drive these people out of their power bases.

Not true.

the pakis exterminated the militants in swat, but that was a war they fought because they knew they could win it. until a couple of years ago, hakimullah was giving interviews without a care in the world, i suspect he has gone underground because he fears other ttp commanders more than the paki army.

unlike the afghans, the paki taliban are very divided among tribal lines and one faction can not travel as freely as one might think. drone attacks have done enough damage, a legitimate military assault by the pakis could do major damage if they are sincere about it and its not merely for show. time will tell.

Drone attacks have only "exterminated" mostly Pashtun civilians.

The Pakistan Army only "exterminated" Pashtun civilians in Swat, and they were defeated there as they were in Waziristan before.

Loss of 5000 Pak soldiers is more than NATOs stated losses.

"It in effect counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants, according to several administration officials, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent," is how the Times report it.

https://rt.com/usa/news/drone-strike-obama-casualties-604/

http://www.alternet.org/story/156264/glenn_greenwald%3A_there_is_nothing_brave_about_murdering_innocents_by_remote_control

In fact, not that many high value targets/militants have ever been killed by drone attacks.
For example, it has been mentioned that Hakimullah was killed several times in the last 4-5 years, and it never turned out to be the case. Unless they are zombies, the drone attacks are only killing civilians, and very blatantly, and like the NATO war itself, is a failure substitute for the the lack of a North Waziristan operation (whether by NATO or Pak) which itself would not achieve anything. 11 years and people are supposed to believe North Waziristan is the reason for NATO failure. How about all of Afghanistan is the reason for NATO failure?

http://www.opednews.com/articles/US-drone-strikes-target-re-by-Glenn-Greenwald-120821-631.html

[faye]

i read, 10 civilians to 1 militant are killed by drones in pakistan.
wars are disgusting but this is even a more inhumane way to fight a war. this is how america is planning to do the majority of their fighting in the furure.

[khushal]

You cant fight wars with drones alone. you need boots on the ground.

[faye]

i said, 'majority of their fighting' that means 'mostly, not all of their fighting. i assume the minor fraction would be boots on the ground.