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  • US marine gets 3 months confinement for killing 24 iraqi civilians.

    american justice

    Marine accepts plea deal in Iraqi civilian deaths - Yahoo! News

    CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. (AP) — A Marine accused of killing unarmed Iraqi women and children pleaded guilty Monday to negligent dereliction of duty in a deal that will bring a maximum of three months confinement and end the largest and longest-running criminal case against U.S. troops to emerge from the Iraq War.
    Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich, 31, of Meriden, Conn., led the Marine squad in 2005 that killed 24 Iraqis in the town of Haditha in a series of raids on homes after a roadside bomb exploded near a Marine convoy, killing one Marine and wounding two others.
    It was a stunning and muted end to the case once described as the Iraq War's version of the My Lai massacre in Vietnam. The government failed to get one manslaughter conviction in the case that involved eight Marines.
    The Haditha incident is considered among the war's defining moments, further tainting America's reputation when it was already at a low point after the release of photos of prisoner abuse by U.S. soldiers at Abu Ghraib prison.
    "The case doesn't end with a bang, it ends with a whimper and a pretty weak whimper at that," said Gary Solis, a former Marine Corps prosecutor and judge. "When you have 24 dead bodies and you get dereliction of duty, that's pretty good defense work."
    Wuterich, his family and his attorneys declined to comment after he entered the plea that interrupted his trial at Camp Pendleton before a jury of combat Marines who served in Iraq.
    Prosecutors also declined to comment on the plea deal.
    The father of three children had faced the possibility of life behind bars. After pleading guilty to the minor charge, Wuterich now faces a maximum of three months in confinement, two-thirds forfeiture of pay and a rank demotion to private when he's sentenced, which will happen Tuesday morning. The plea agreement calls for manslaughter charges to be dropped.
    Seven other Marines in his squad were acquitted or had charges dismissed.
    The killings still fuel anger in Iraq after becoming the primary reason behind demands that U.S. troops not be given immunity from their court system.
    Kamil al-Dulaimi, a Sunni lawmaker from the Anbar provincial capital of Ramadi, called the plea deal a travesty of justice for the victims and their families.
    "It's just another barbaric act of Americans against Iraqis," al-Dulaimi told The Associated Press. "They spill the blood of Iraqis and get this worthless sentence for the savage crime against innocent civilians."
    News of the plea agreement came late in the evening in Iraq just hours before curfew most cities still impose, producing no noticeable public reaction. Government officials didn't immediately respond to requests for comment.
    The issue at the court martial was whether Wuterich reacted appropriately as a Marine squad leader in protecting his troops in the midst of a chaotic war or disregarded combat rules and ordered his men to shoot and blast indiscriminately at Iraqi civilians.
    Wuterich was initially charged with nine counts of manslaughter, among other charges.
    Prosecutors said he lost control after seeing the body of his friend blown apart by the bomb and led his men on a rampage in which they stormed two nearby homes, blasting their way in with gunfire and grenades. Among the dead was a man in a wheelchair.
    Wuterich acknowledged Monday he was negligent in his duties because he told his squad to shoot first and ask questions later, or words to that effect, before the squad stormed the first home.
    "Honestly, I probably should have said nothing," Wuterich told the judge, Lt. Col. David Jones. "I think we all understood what we were doing so I probably just should have said nothing."
    Later he added: "I shouldn't have done that and it resulted in tragic events, sir."
    Wuterich agreed with the judge that those words caused the deaths of unarmed men, women and children.
    During Monday's hearing, Wuterich acknowledged he had been trained in rules of engagement before going to Iraq and again when he was deployed, but his words led his squad to believe they could ignore those rules.
    He admitted he did not positively identify his targets, as he had learned to do in training. He said he ordered his troops to assault the homes based on the guidance of his platoon commander at the time.
    "No one denies that the events ... were tragic, most of all Frank Wuterich," defense attorney Neal Puckett told the North County Times. "But the fact of the matter is that he has now been totally exonerated of the homicide charges brought against him by the government and the media. For the last six years, he has had his name dragged through the mud. Today, we hope, is the beginning of his redemption."
    Solis said the government made a critical mistake by failing to push for an earlier trial, and that prosecutors were almost timid, standing by while the defense held up the case for years with motions. Witnesses may have had second thoughts about testifying and memories fade, he said.
    Defense attorneys spoke to reporters while prosecutors were silent, potentially allowing jurors to be influenced by public opinion.
    "Six years for a trial is unacceptable," said Solis, who teaches law of war at Georgetown University Law Center. "Delay is always to the benefit of the accused."
    He said prosecutors may have been cowed by the Army's missteps in its handling of the death of former NFL star and Ranger Pat Tillman from friendly fire in Afghanistan in 2004.
    Marine Corps spokesman Lt. Col. Joseph Kloppel said the plea deal was not a reflection or in any way connected to how the prosecution felt their case was going in the trial.
    Wuterich also acknowledged in his plea that the squad did not take any gunfire during the 45-minute raid on the homes or find any weapons. Still, several squad members testified they do not believe they did anything wrong because they feared insurgents were inside hiding.
    The prosecution was further hurt by the testimony of former Lt. William T. Kallop, Wuterich's former platoon commander, who said the squad was justified in its actions because the house was declared hostile. From what was understood of the rules of combat at the time, that meant Marines did not need to positively identify their targets, Kallop said.
    Wuterich has said he regretted the loss of civilian lives but believed he was operating within military combat rules.
    After Haditha, Marines commanders ordered troops to try and distinguish between civilians and combatants.
    The trial was delayed for years by pre-trial wrangling between the defense and prosecution, including over whether the military could use unaired outtakes from an interview Wuterich gave in 2007 to CBS "60 Minutes." Prosecutors eventually won the right to view the footage.
    ___
    Associated Press writers Barbara Surk and Mazin Yahya in Baghdad, and Elliot Spagat in San Diego contributed to this report.
    There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

    Sayyid Qutb

  • #2
    People should protest about this in USA
    ----------

    *You cannot climb the ladder of success with your hands in your pockets*

    Originally posted by Karachi
    like I said, there was only one reason I pretended to be pathan, for a girl, who was from Afghan forums and also registered here

    Comment


    • #3
      read the comments on the page. americans dont care.
      There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

      Sayyid Qutb

      Comment


      • #4
        is the international criminal law the same as the geneva conventions? i heard that the reason these soldiers were brought back to their own countries for conviction has to do with the fact that countries such as afghanistan iraq and vietnam are not participants of the international law and that otherwise, they would be sent back to face the judicial system of the country where they committed the crime. is this true?

        I am no bird, and no nest ensnares me.

        non commercial would cost less if he was in charge himself which he plans on doing. right now it's n herat but soon it will be in qanadahar.

        Comment


        • #5
          ^ no, american soldiers are not subject to laws outside america, i am pretty sure thats true regarding every country they are in.

          there are harsher penalties against drunk driving than there are for an american soldier killing a non american civilian.
          There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

          Sayyid Qutb

          Comment


          • #6
            just before leaving iraq, i read that paul bremer got the iraq government to sign something so no americans could be tried there for crimes during the war.

            Comment


            • #7
              Its the same in Afghanistan,you can kill and slaughter and rape and whatever else comes to your mind...no prosecution.
              This called Human rights,Freedom,Democracy.
              High achievement always takes place in the framework of high expectation.

              Comment


              • #8
                These a humans who have Families but for Americans its just Iraqis or Afghans.

                Comment


                • #9
                  also they don't want to deter other mass murderers from joining the military. especially now whilst they are having an economic downturn and looking to attack iran. the perfect time for gathering new recruits, whilst everyone is getting poorer.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    When did Geneva convention's ever... matter.

                    They wrote the Geneva conventions...for the 3rd world.

                    Not for them...selves.

                    Why would anyone write?...restrictions...and rules for them selves.

                    Its always...written for...others.

                    To restrict others...to punish others.

                    When it comes to themselves .... oh they are exempt.

                    It just doesn't count...
                    I believe the sun should never set upon an argument.
                    I believe forgiveness is the key to your unhappiness.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Wawrina View Post
                      When did Geneva convention's ever... matter.

                      They wrote the Geneva conventions...for the 3rd world.

                      Not for them...selves.

                      Why would anyone write?...restrictions...and rules for them selves.

                      Its always...written for...others.

                      To restrict others...to punish others.

                      When it comes to themselves .... oh they are exempt.

                      It just doesn't count...
                      you will never be cheated out of your rights if you know them well, respect them and apply them to those around you. all three of those. you can't wake up one day and point out to the set of rules at someone else's house and ask why you are deprived of the benefits of it. if we had a part in writing it, no one would have cheated us. why don't we?? because we are too busy focusing on killing each other and going back to stone age. every one else personalizes democracy, we don't want to hear of it because it associates us with the kufaar.

                      I am no bird, and no nest ensnares me.

                      non commercial would cost less if he was in charge himself which he plans on doing. right now it's n herat but soon it will be in qanadahar.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DaZahroJaam. View Post
                        you will never be cheated out of your rights if you know them well, respect them and apply them to those around you. all three of those. you can't wake up one day and point out to the set of rules at someone else's house and ask why you are deprived of the benefits of it. if we had a part in writing it, no one would have cheated us. why don't we?? because we are too busy focusing on killing each other and going back to stone age. every one else personalizes democracy, we don't want to hear of it because it associates us with the kufaar.
                        So you are saying that because Iraqies are ignorant of their rights, the US soldiers can trample all over them?


                        That is the most absurd and nonsensical statement I have read all day.

                        In reality the reason why such injustice do get carried out against "under developed" nations by the more "developed" nations, is because a handful of people from the "under developed world" keep telling their own lot that they deserve the treatment they get. It's called an inferiority complex...get over it sister. It's embarrassing.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          can and do not should. how do you plan on fixing a problem if you don't want to acknowledge the fact that it exists? accepting your faults don't make you worthless.

                          I am no bird, and no nest ensnares me.

                          non commercial would cost less if he was in charge himself which he plans on doing. right now it's n herat but soon it will be in qanadahar.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by randolph85 View Post
                            american justice

                            Marine accepts plea deal in Iraqi civilian deaths - Yahoo! News

                            CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. (AP) — A Marine accused of killing unarmed Iraqi women and children pleaded guilty Monday to negligent dereliction of duty in a deal that will bring a maximum of three months confinement and end the largest and longest-running criminal case against U.S. troops to emerge from the Iraq War.
                            Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich, 31, of Meriden, Conn., led the Marine squad in 2005 that killed 24 Iraqis in the town of Haditha in a series of raids on homes after a roadside bomb exploded near a Marine convoy, killing one Marine and wounding two others.
                            It was a stunning and muted end to the case once described as the Iraq War's version of the My Lai massacre in Vietnam. The government failed to get one manslaughter conviction in the case that involved eight Marines.
                            The Haditha incident is considered among the war's defining moments, further tainting America's reputation when it was already at a low point after the release of photos of prisoner abuse by U.S. soldiers at Abu Ghraib prison.
                            "The case doesn't end with a bang, it ends with a whimper and a pretty weak whimper at that," said Gary Solis, a former Marine Corps prosecutor and judge. "When you have 24 dead bodies and you get dereliction of duty, that's pretty good defense work."
                            Wuterich, his family and his attorneys declined to comment after he entered the plea that interrupted his trial at Camp Pendleton before a jury of combat Marines who served in Iraq.
                            Prosecutors also declined to comment on the plea deal.
                            The father of three children had faced the possibility of life behind bars. After pleading guilty to the minor charge, Wuterich now faces a maximum of three months in confinement, two-thirds forfeiture of pay and a rank demotion to private when he's sentenced, which will happen Tuesday morning. The plea agreement calls for manslaughter charges to be dropped.
                            Seven other Marines in his squad were acquitted or had charges dismissed.
                            The killings still fuel anger in Iraq after becoming the primary reason behind demands that U.S. troops not be given immunity from their court system.
                            Kamil al-Dulaimi, a Sunni lawmaker from the Anbar provincial capital of Ramadi, called the plea deal a travesty of justice for the victims and their families.
                            "It's just another barbaric act of Americans against Iraqis," al-Dulaimi told The Associated Press. "They spill the blood of Iraqis and get this worthless sentence for the savage crime against innocent civilians."
                            News of the plea agreement came late in the evening in Iraq just hours before curfew most cities still impose, producing no noticeable public reaction. Government officials didn't immediately respond to requests for comment.
                            The issue at the court martial was whether Wuterich reacted appropriately as a Marine squad leader in protecting his troops in the midst of a chaotic war or disregarded combat rules and ordered his men to shoot and blast indiscriminately at Iraqi civilians.
                            Wuterich was initially charged with nine counts of manslaughter, among other charges.
                            Prosecutors said he lost control after seeing the body of his friend blown apart by the bomb and led his men on a rampage in which they stormed two nearby homes, blasting their way in with gunfire and grenades. Among the dead was a man in a wheelchair.
                            Wuterich acknowledged Monday he was negligent in his duties because he told his squad to shoot first and ask questions later, or words to that effect, before the squad stormed the first home.
                            "Honestly, I probably should have said nothing," Wuterich told the judge, Lt. Col. David Jones. "I think we all understood what we were doing so I probably just should have said nothing."
                            Later he added: "I shouldn't have done that and it resulted in tragic events, sir."
                            Wuterich agreed with the judge that those words caused the deaths of unarmed men, women and children.
                            During Monday's hearing, Wuterich acknowledged he had been trained in rules of engagement before going to Iraq and again when he was deployed, but his words led his squad to believe they could ignore those rules.
                            He admitted he did not positively identify his targets, as he had learned to do in training. He said he ordered his troops to assault the homes based on the guidance of his platoon commander at the time.
                            "No one denies that the events ... were tragic, most of all Frank Wuterich," defense attorney Neal Puckett told the North County Times. "But the fact of the matter is that he has now been totally exonerated of the homicide charges brought against him by the government and the media. For the last six years, he has had his name dragged through the mud. Today, we hope, is the beginning of his redemption."
                            Solis said the government made a critical mistake by failing to push for an earlier trial, and that prosecutors were almost timid, standing by while the defense held up the case for years with motions. Witnesses may have had second thoughts about testifying and memories fade, he said.
                            Defense attorneys spoke to reporters while prosecutors were silent, potentially allowing jurors to be influenced by public opinion.
                            "Six years for a trial is unacceptable," said Solis, who teaches law of war at Georgetown University Law Center. "Delay is always to the benefit of the accused."
                            He said prosecutors may have been cowed by the Army's missteps in its handling of the death of former NFL star and Ranger Pat Tillman from friendly fire in Afghanistan in 2004.
                            Marine Corps spokesman Lt. Col. Joseph Kloppel said the plea deal was not a reflection or in any way connected to how the prosecution felt their case was going in the trial.
                            Wuterich also acknowledged in his plea that the squad did not take any gunfire during the 45-minute raid on the homes or find any weapons. Still, several squad members testified they do not believe they did anything wrong because they feared insurgents were inside hiding.
                            The prosecution was further hurt by the testimony of former Lt. William T. Kallop, Wuterich's former platoon commander, who said the squad was justified in its actions because the house was declared hostile. From what was understood of the rules of combat at the time, that meant Marines did not need to positively identify their targets, Kallop said.
                            Wuterich has said he regretted the loss of civilian lives but believed he was operating within military combat rules.
                            After Haditha, Marines commanders ordered troops to try and distinguish between civilians and combatants.
                            The trial was delayed for years by pre-trial wrangling between the defense and prosecution, including over whether the military could use unaired outtakes from an interview Wuterich gave in 2007 to CBS "60 Minutes." Prosecutors eventually won the right to view the footage.
                            ___
                            Associated Press writers Barbara Surk and Mazin Yahya in Baghdad, and Elliot Spagat in San Diego contributed to this report.
                            Salamoona Randolph,

                            One thing I've noted about us pesky humans is that we all, probably for biological and kinship reasons, focus on plights of those nearest us.

                            Take for example the struggles of the IRA against Britain, Che Geuvara against Batista (the Najib of Cuba), or the massacre of the Vietnemese. Most Muslims, let alone Afghans have little knowledge of the gripes these groups have.

                            You are well read, so I am sure you know about the terrible Mai Lai massacre. Haditha actually pales in comparison to Mai Lai, which Sy Hersh ended up exposing.

                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

                            The main commander Ernest Medina got off scot free and this even led to the coining of a legal term:

                            the Medina standard.

                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medina_standard

                            The only convicted office was pardoned by Nixon:

                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley

                            The strong always oppress the weak and ensure that the door to further violence remains wide open. If they decided to punish any of these people, their concern is that their all volunteer participatation would evaporate because everyone doing the killing would be worried about court martials.

                            Look also at the murder, rape, and body burning of Abeer Hamza. Her killer got life in a state known for doling out the death penalty.

                            My point here is that we need to always remember that when we hear anyone else talking of a freedom from oppression struggle, that we should listen and research their claims because I am sure that folks around the world feel like hadithas happen regularly without anyone lending an ear. Thats why whenever I hear a greater power label some group as insurgent, troublesom, or worse, I always read up as much as I can on the conflict so that I understand the situation.

                            And remember there will be many more hadithas in the Muslim world... with no apologies from the super powers... after all, have the Vietnamese gotten any apologies? Have the civilians of Vietnam from those villages tasted justice? And remember Vietnam won.
                            Last edited by BarakzaiAbdali; 01-25-2012, 01:41 AM.
                            "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DaZahroJaam. View Post
                              you will never be cheated out of your rights if you know them well, respect them and apply them to those around you. all three of those. you can't wake up one day and point out to the set of rules at someone else's house and ask why you are deprived of the benefits of it. if we had a part in writing it, no one would have cheated us. why don't we?? because we are too busy focusing on killing each other and going back to stone age. every one else personalizes democracy, we don't want to hear of it because it associates us with the kufaar.
                              My question...

                              How come they don't follow their...own rules?.

                              Whats the point of Geneva Conventions?

                              When they hardly follow it.

                              Every crime they...commit has a severe punishment...in Geneva

                              Convention.

                              Yet everything is being swept...under the rug.
                              I believe the sun should never set upon an argument.
                              I believe forgiveness is the key to your unhappiness.

                              Comment

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