Old and new mingle in Afghan Jirga

[Afghan_Soldier]

Who are you to insult people saying khostwal have tails? Who are you to make fun of a man who lost his eye defending our country from Russians?

Have you ever sacrificed a hair or a nail for anything? Have you ever taken a bullet for anything in your life?

Where is your decency and self respect?

Esy tiger, stop making things up on my behalf. I never insulted any people. I don't know what you are on about man. That Haqani guy, I didn't even know him till I have come to known him in Afghan gatherings and my friends from Khost despise him. They say he has a tail, I don't know why they say that - Afghans say funny things. It is may be beacause they think he is stupid or something and has sold us out to Pakistan. I don't know.

That guy who has lost his eye, well Allah de par rah wokrree.. he is also responsible for many atrocities. We don't even know if he exists or not. May be he is some kind or puported and imaginary character orchestrated and executed through ISI headquarters. I would assume so. God knows where he is.

[Afghan_Soldier]

I see you are still a child. You want to talk about politics of Afghanistan and yet you don't know who Maulavi Yunus Khalis was? He was the father of your Gulbudin Hekmatyar. In fact he was the father of Jihad against Russians.

Ok brother, take it easy. I never said I was an expert. I am quite ignorant, I didn't even grow up in Afghanistan. I am making efforts to learn. Thanks for educating me.

[Afghan_Soldier]

Really? Can you post the article here please?

It is every where, haven't you been keeping up with the events. I read an article on the exact matter some days ago. I'll keep you posted when I find it.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Ok brother, take it easy. I never said I was an expert. I am quite ignorant, I didn't even grow up in Afghanistan. I am making efforts to learn. Thanks for educating me.

Then stop insulting people you only know of from hear-say.

I know two people personally who met Mullah Omar and talked to him in person. One is Daud Junbish, journalist from BBC. I met him in Germany. He held an extensive interview with Mullah Omar somewhere in 1997.

And second one is a relative of mine who was the bodyguard of Mullah Khaksar and met Mullah Omar on several occasions.

And plus, there is even video image of him of the Jirga held where he was elected as Amirul Momineen by a gathering of 1500 ulema of Afghanistan. At the final of the Jirga he climbed up on the roof of a building carrying a shawl that is said to belong to rasul allah sal allahu alayhi wasallam.

And Jalaludin Haqqani is hated by some of the rival tribes in Khost & Paktia because he belongs to the Zadran tribe, and specifically the Tor Khel. Tor Khel are the most prominent Mujahedeen in history of Afghanistan. And some Mangal and Tanai communists hate him because they suffered severe losses in Khost at the end of the 80's by the hands of Haqqani.

Unlike other Jihadi leaders, Haqqani has always faught in the front line. There are people in UK who use to be his footsoldiers in the 80's. They say that he would walk for miles in the mountains by foot while he was an important commander. He still leads his men to battle.

If you don't like them, fine. It is a matter of opinion. But don't go around insulting people and calling them wrond mullah or donkey or saying they have tails.

We are not even a quarter of men they are. We have not even lost a nail for the honor of our families. Yet, they have taken bullets to the chest and have lived bare footed in deserts and mountains for years.

So who are we to insult them and judge them while we are here safe behind our computers discussing who they are and what they are about?


Would we be just like them, would we have spent at leat 1 year enduring what they have endured for over 20 years and would we have risked our lives for the cause we believe in, we might have been entitled to pass judgements about them.

But since we live in safe cozy homes with electricty and wide screen computers and air-conditioning, we should think twice passing judgements on those who's feet are filled with thorns and whos chest are marked wiht bulletholes.

[Afghan_Soldier]

kutsa-dab!

What?

[شمله ور خراساني]

What?

street people. People who are being vulgar and obscene.

[Afghan_Soldier]

Then stop insulting people you only know of from hear-say.

I know two people personally who met Mullah Omar and talked to him in person. One is Daud Junbish, journalist from BBC. I met him in Germany. He held an extensive interview with Mullah Omar somewhere in 1997.

And second one is a relative of mine who was the bodyguard of Mullah Khaksar and met Mullah Omar on several occasions.

And plus, there is even video image of him of the Jirga held where he was elected as Amirul Momineen by a gathering of 1500 ulema of Afghanistan. At the final of the Jirga he climbed up on the roof of a building carrying a shawl that is said to belong to rasul allah sal allahu alayhi wasallam.

And Jalaludin Haqqani is hated by some of the rival tribes in Khost & Paktia because he belongs to the Zadran tribe, and specifically the Tor Khel. Tor Khel are the most prominent Mujahedeen in history of Afghanistan. And some Mangal and Tanai communists hate him because they suffered severe losses in Khost at the end of the 80's by the hands of Haqqani.

Unlike other Jihadi leaders, Haqqani has always faught in the front line. There are people in UK who use to be his footsoldiers in the 80's. They say that he would walk for miles in the mountains by foot while he was an important commander. He still leads his men to battle.

If you don't like them, fine. It is a matter of opinion. But don't go around insulting people and calling them wrond mullah or donkey or saying they have tails.

We are not even a quarter of men they are. We have not even lost a nail for the honor of our families. Yet, they have taken bullets to the chest and have lived bare footed in deserts and mountains for years.

So who are we to insult them and judge them while we are here safe behind our computers discussing who they are and what they are about?


Would we be just like them, would we have spent at leat 1 year enduring what they have endured for over 20 years and would we have risked our lives for the cause we believe in, we might have been entitled to pass judgements about them.

But since we live in safe cozy homes with electricty and wide screen computers and air-conditioning, we should think twice passing judgements on those who's feet are filled with thorns and whos chest are marked wiht bulletholes.

Ok cool man. That softened my heart, I kind of knwo what you mean. In that sense I have respect for these men. I don't agree with some of their idealogies and I don't think they are the right people to be rulers. They are also easily manipulated by Pak-ies under the guise of Islam.

[Afghan_Soldier]

street people. People who are being vulgar and obscene.

Ah, ok chill.

[شمله ور خراساني]

we're cool now

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

After the Soviets withdrew whoever continued to fight did so for political reasons. In a sense they washed away the good deeds they did by fighting the Russians. It is like building a sand castle by the shore.

These people endured a lot because at the end of the day they wanted to have power or be part of the those who have power. The only real freedom fighters were those who fought the Russians and dropped their arms afterwards.

[Afghan_Soldier]

After the Soviets withdrew whoever continued to fight did so for political reasons. In a sense they washed away the good deeds they did by fighting the Russians. It is like building a sand castle by the shore.

These people endured a lot because at the end of the day they wanted to have power or be part of the those who have power. The only real freedom fighters were those who fought the Russians and dropped their arms afterwards.

You are right, sir.

[Afghan_Soldier]

Afghan Jirga is nonsense. When we have these other ethnic groups not recognizing us, how can settle our differences in a Jirga?

Why do you say that?

Jirga is Pashtun.

Your president is Pashtun.

More than half of his cabinet is Pashtun, inc. defence, interior, economy, finance.. so what do you want?

[Afghan_Soldier]

Really? Can you post the article here please?

Sangar, here is the article!


Afghanistan warlord Hekmatyar shuns peace jirga but offers own deal

Afghanistan warlord Gulbuddin Hekmatyar and other insurgent leaders have dismissed a three-day peace jirga, or council, in Kabul, which opened Wednesday to rocket attacks and an attempted suicide bombing.

By Anand Gopal, Correspondent / June 2, 2010
Kabul, Afghanistan



A leading Afghan insurgent says his group is ready for a peace deal, as more than a thousand delegates gathered in Kabul Wednesday to discuss ways to quell the violence in this war-ravaged country.

Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, the leader of Hizb-i-Islami, one of Afghanistan’s three main insurgent factions, told the Monitor in an e-mailinterview that his group decided to open talks with the Afghan government after US President Barack Obama and other Western leaders mentioned the possibility of starting to withdraw troops as early as July 2011.
“They said that the chaos in Afghanistan does not have a military solution. They said they could not defeat the opposition to this regime by fighting,” Mr. Hekmatyar wrote from an undisclosed location. “Because of that, we gave a complete and logical proposal” for peace to the government.
High-ranking officials with Hizb-i-Islami, including the group’s spokesman, verified that the responses were Hekmatyar’s.
The prospects of a deal with Hekmatyar are still far off, given that some of his demands – such as foreign troop withdrawal this year and early elections – are unlikely to be accepted by the US and the Afghan government. And any deal is unlikely to sway the Taliban, the strongest of the insurgent groups, to themselves come to the table.
Still, though smaller than the Taliban, Hizb-i-Islami has an active presence in large parts of the country’s north and east. It has carried out many attacks against Afghan and Western forces, including a 2008 assault near Kabul that killed 10 French soldiers.
Peace jirga attacked

This week’s peace jirga, where nearly 1,600 notable Afghans have assembled to debate strategies for reaching out to insurgents, did not extend invitations to any militant group. In turn, Hizb-i-Islami issued a statement dismissing the meeting because “the participants consist of persons who are state favorites.” A Taliban spokesman also condemned the jirga, calling it a "show" and not a serious initiative.
Indeed, the jirga’s opening was met with attacks– three rockets landed near the area of the meetings, and a gun battle erupted with a suspected suicide bomber as the jirga started.
High-level talks

Contacts between the Hizb-i-Islami and the Afghan government picked up early this year, Afghan officials say. A high-ranking delegation visited Kabul in March – and met with several senior politicians, including President Hamid Karzai. They delivered a 15-point peace plan that included several controversial demands.

The proposal said thatforeign troops must begin withdrawing by July and early elections held, according to a copy seen by the Monitor. Some analysts believe that leaders of Hizb-i-Islami, which remains popular among segments of Pashtun society, think they can win such an election.
According to the proposal, the government would continue in its current form after the troops left and the newly elected parliament would review the Constitution.

The group also hintsthat it would prevent Al Qaeda from operating in the country. “In our proposal, we said that after the foreign troops leave, there will be no foreign fighters in Afghanistan,” Hekmatyar wrote, referring to Al Qaeda, although analysts doubt if he could deliver on such a promise.

Members of the group blame Washington for hamstringing negotiations by demurring on troop withdrawal. “The Americans are not ready for talks. That’s why we continue to fight,” says Haroun Zarghun, a close associate of Hekmatyar’s, speaking on the phone from an undisclosed location.

Prospects for a deal

US officials counterthat Hizb-i-Islami has not effectively demonstrated its intent to cut links with Al Qaeda, and that withdrawing forces beginning this summer is premature. Hekmatyar and his group have also been accused of a long list of human rights violations.

Some of the terms may also be unacceptable to the Afghan government. “We do not accept any condition that is against the Afghan constitution,” says Siamak Herawi, a spokesman for the President Karzai. “Elections can only be held every five years, so their proposal [for new elections] is against the constitution and not acceptable.”

Some Western and Afghan officials say they welcome reconciliation with Hizb-i-Islami but are wary of any government role for Hekmatyar, whose forces notoriously shelled Kabul in the 1990s, killing thousands, despite his being prime minister at the time.
Hekmatyar denies any personal aspirations in extending the olive branch. “I just want freedom for my country,” he says. “I don’t want anything for myself, nor have we asked for anything for me or Hizb-i-Islami in our proposal.”

Observers say that Hekmatyar and fellow leaders of the groupmight be tired of fighting – as one of Afghanistan’s oldest insurgent groups, they have been on the battlefield first against the Russians, then against other Afghan warlords, and now against the Americans, for nearly 30 years.
Some Afghan officials say that the group has hit the extent of its reach – in recent months, it’s fought several turf battles with the Taliban. In the latest blow, in May a prominent Hizb-i-Islami religious cleric was gunned down in eastern Kunar Province, most likely by the Taliban.
Ripple effect?

Even if a peace deal eventually materializes, a major concern is that it would not significantly dampen violence, since the Taliban is the dominant force in most of the country. It is unlikely that Hizb-i-Islami would have the ability to influence the Taliban. “There will be no effect on us if Hizb-i-Islami talks with the government,” says Qari Ziaur Rahman, a prominent Taliban commander who is active in Afghanistan and Pakistan, speaking by phone from Kunar.

“Hizb has not been effective in the last eight years, they haven’t had any major successes in these years,” he adds, hinting at the growing tensions between the two groups.

But others insist that getting the group to lay down its weapons will marka significant step toward peace. “They are weaker than the Taliban, but they are still quite popular in many areas,” says Wahid Muzjda, a Kabul-based policy analyst. “They can still cause problems. That’s why everyone is taking them seriously.”

[شمله ور خراساني]

I've read the original Pashto article mentioning the 15 point suggestion Hizb made. And there it clearly states that Hizb respects the current secular constitution.

[شمله ور خراساني]

After the Soviets withdrew whoever continued to fight did so for political reasons. In a sense they washed away the good deeds they did by fighting the Russians. It is like building a sand castle by the shore.

These people endured a lot because at the end of the day they wanted to have power or be part of the those who have power. The only real freedom fighters were those who fought the Russians and dropped their arms afterwards.

Yes, Nabi MUhammadi & Hizb Islami of Yunus Khalis did stop fighting long time ago. Actually Jalaludin Haqqani was sent to Kabul on many occasions to broker a peace among the fighting factions.

But nobody listened to him. Only when Nabi Muhammadi's legacy started an uprising against the Pir Gilani and Hizb Islami's warlords in Kandahar, did the commanders of Hizb Islami Yunus Khalis pick up their arms to fight the warlords and drive out the warring factions from Afghanistan to bring peace.

People seem to forget who Nabi Muhammadi and Yunus Khalis men were and how they tried to prevent a civil war after the withdrawal of Russian troops. They only remember when Hizb and Jamyat were driven out and Mullah Omar entered Kabul.