Imran Khan demands apology from Pakistan to Bangladesh

[Baygham]

Punjab and its culture of Rape.

Unheard: Atrocities On Sikh Women in Punjab | NeverForget84.com
“If any action occurs in this village, every single male is going to be taken out and shot. Then we’re going to take all the women to our camp and there we’re going to create a new breed for Punjab.”
Brig. RP Sinha addressing assembled Sikh villagers on March 8, 1991, International Women’s Day
And this was the way International Women’s Day was celebrated in Punjab

Heres a book that details Panjabs rape culture "The Culture struggle" by Michael Parenti
The culture struggle - Google Books
In Panjab provence, Pakistan, rapes are a common occurrence, but only a small percentage are ever reported or prosecuted. Half the time the woman who do report being raped find that their accusations are treated as an admission of guilt.

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Pakistan girl recalls rape ordeal
They accused police of not taking action against all the accused because they have the support of local influential people.
Women are often used as a means of settling tribal vendettas and honour that is perceived to have been slighted in rural Pakistan.
In 2002, a village council in Punjab province ordered the rape of a woman by men from another clan because of her brother's alleged affair with a woman from their family.
The case ignited international interest after the woman, Mukhtar Mai, chose to fight her case publicly.
Her fight helped rights groups and legislators galvanise support for changes in the country's laws which were recently amended.

Khushal wrora, khapakeega ma, kho this is happening in pashtoon land as well.
I remember this lady in hayatshaheed undergoing an emergency laparotomy for a ruptured uterus, well she stuck a stick in her self to induce an abortion for she did not want the family to know that she had a child (from rape)
this is our culture and our laws (islamic) are as much at fault as ignorance to follow them are.

[khushal]

Baygham wrora,
While I dont doubt your story about this lady. This is different from a village council approving rape as a punishment or as a compensation which gives us evidence that it is cultural in panjabi society. Rapists exist everywhere in all societies. Even here in the US, one of the main argument in ROE vs Wade(the law that made abortion legal in the US) was that women were sticking coat hangers and what not in to themselves to perform abortion anyways many times killing the woman as well as the child inside.

[roadrunner]

I will entertain you for a bit.

Here's some references, but it's not too difficult to find. They're a lot more solid than some student group of Bangladeshis. At least they're neutral, not Bangladeshi or/amd not trying to sell something.

Road,
I asked you to give us sources to back up what your saying and you talking out of your arse and said we must find the source ourself to back up what your saying. Well all I can find is the opposite of what your saying. Now debate like a man otherwise shut the hell up.

The source I linked in the early post are studies done at university in US.
here is another excerpt and the references

References:

1.Death by Government by R J Rummel

Foolish source that Bangladeshi Nationalists and Indians cling to. Thoroughly disproven.

Analysis was scientific, but used bias in the newspaper sources with a predominance of Indian and Bangladeshi newspaper reports in his analysis.

Amazed this dumbo never heard of propaganda.

2. Against Our Will: Men,Women and Rape by Susan Brownmiller

Not scientific research. Some obese feminist trying to sell her book to the Bangladeshi public.

3.The Rape of Bangla Desh by Anthony Mascarenhas.

This guy is the best of the four sources, but has proved to have made up extravagant stories. Possible motivation, money for selling his book to docile, lazy possibly shorter Bangladeshis.

But note even he records that the Bengali traitors did the following:

"Thousands of families of unfortunate Muslims, many of them refugees from Bihar who chose Pakistan at the time of the partition riots in 1947, were mercilessly wiped out. Women were raped, or had their breasts torn out with specially fashioned knives. Children did not escape the horror: the lucky ones were killed with their parents; but many thousands of others must go through what life remains for them with eyes gouged out and limbs amputated. More than 20,000 bodies of non-Bengalis have been found in the main towns, such as Chittagong, Khulna and Jessore. The real toll, I was told everywhere in East Bengal, may have been as high as 100,000, for

thousands of non-Bengalis have vanished without a trace.11"
http://www.law.utoronto.ca/documents...k09_Kelley.pdf

4. Tormenting Seventy One by Shahriar Kabir

Not scientific. Some author trying to sell his book.

http://www.kean.edu/~bgsg/Conference...earchlight.pdf

This group is a collection of Bangladeshi students who, by their own admission, are trying to perpetuate the lie that the Pakistani State and the Pakistani Army were brutal to them, therefore justifying their mass treachery and slaughter of Biharis.

They have ONLY rehashed old sources such as Rummel and not presented anything new. If Rummel is their main source, then that makes it a very weak case.

The reason for the formation of the Bangladesh Study Group in this low rated university, is to counter the growing realization, brought on by Professor Sarmilla Bose (a Bengali herself), that the War of 1971 was built on lies and fabrication starting with the leaders of Bangladesh. Any university will entertain discussion, even if they bring no new information.

This gendercide had another consequence. While men were being kidnapped and killed, women were raped..
Bengali women were targeted for gender-selective atrocities and abuses, notably gang sexual assault and rape
Indeed despite , and perhaps because of, overwhelming targeting of males for mass murder, it is for the systematic
brutalization of women that the Rape of Bangladesh is best known western observers. Susan Brownmiller in her
book , Against Our Will: Men Women and Rape writes," 200,000, 300,000 or possibly 400,000 women were raped.
Eighty percent of the raped women were Moslems, reflecting the population of Bangladesh, but Hindu and Christian
women were not exempt ....... Hit and run rape of large numbers of Bengali women was brutally simple in terms of
logistics. I must add here that the raping of Hindu and Christian women had the clear sight of forced pregnancy

which was aimed at communal cleansing operation.

Weak source, old source. Read above.

The available material shows that the victims of rape were Hindu and Muslim, Bengali, Bihari and West Pakistani. The perpetrators were civilian and military, and also Bengali, Bihari and West Pakistani. Pakistan army officers admit to the occasional opportunistic rape or attempted rape of women, Bengali and West Pakistani, by army personnel. Many of the non-Bengali victims appear to have been killed after sexual brutalisation by Bengali mobs as part of the “ethnic cleansing” set off by the militant Bengali nationalist movement – as evidenced by the state of their corpses, while those who survived had no place in the “heroine” category in independent Bangladesh.

The allegation that the army maintained “comfort women” – even if the numbers were nowhere close to Bangladeshi claims – is a serious charge and merits further inquiry. However, Ibrahim’s book reveals that in most cases the abductors and rapists of Bengali women were Bengali men, who later passed them on to the military. For the majority of these women, therefore, even if the Pakistan army had done nothing, they would still be rape victims.

Sarmila Bose exposes ‘fictionalized’ exaggeration*|*Dacca Times

Your fictional Indian genocide world is crumbling all around you. You're going to need to come up with a lot better now that there's serious attempts to analyze that war.

[khushal]

Road,
Nobody is buying your BS. Feed it to yourself. The atrocities committed by the pakistani army are real. They are doing the exact same thing in Pakhtunkwa.
Heres a Time's Magizine article

Bangladesh Opens War-Crimes Trial for Genocide Suspects - TIME

Two years ago, TIME met Ali Ahsan Mojaheed at the headquarters of his far-right Islamist party, nestled amid a warren of religious bookshops and seminaries in Dhaka. He welcomed this reporter by peeling a clutch of ripe lychees. "Our fruit is the sweetest," said the secretary general of Bangladesh's Jamaat-e-Islami, proffering a sticky hand. But the conversation soon soured. Asked about the traumatic legacy of Bangladesh's 1971 independence — when the territory then known as East Pakistan split from West Pakistan in an orgy of bloodshed — Mojaheed dismissed the need for a proper reckoning with the past. "This is a dead issue," he almost growled. "It cannot be raised."


But this month it finally has. Far from the protective, lackey-patrolled confines of his offices, Mojaheed and three other prominent Jamaat leaders (including the party's leader Maulana Motiur Rahman Nizami) are under arrest, appearing for the first time in a war-crimes court to face charges of genocide, crimes against humanity and against peace — the last of which has not been invoked since the trials at Nuremberg. They rank among the topmost figures implicated in the systematic murder of as many as 3 million people in 1971 as the Pakistani army and ethnic Bengali collaborators attempted to quash a Bengali-nationalist rebellion. Their prosecution presents a watershed moment for this beleaguered nation of 160 million. A July 30 op-ed in the Daily Star, a leading Dhaka-based newspaper, says, "the trials will allow us to close the door, once and for all ... so that we are not forever fighting the battles of the past." (See the museum that preserved the memory of Bangladesh's atrocities.)


That past — Bangladesh's tangled history of violence and discord — goes a long way to explain how one of the 20th century's worst massacres is now largely forgotten in the rest of the world. Bangladesh's origins lie in two bloody partitions: first, in 1947, when British India was carved into two separate independent states, Muslim-majority Pakistan emerged more as a conceit of ideology than one of geography — its two wings separated by a thousand miles of India in between. The artificial union didn't last a quarter-century and Bengali separatism led eventually to a brutal crackdown by the West Pakistani–dominated army, aided by Islamists like Mojaheed and his colleagues, who were loyal to the greater Pakistani cause and who allegedly led or helped organize death squads that targeted Hindus, students and other dissidents. The intervention of Indian troops turned the tide and Bangladesh, as East Pakistan renamed itself, won its freedom in December 1971, its cities hollowed out, the economy in tatters and its population ravaged. (From TIME's Archives: India and Pakistan poised for war in 1971 over Bangladeshi independence.)


But the U.S.'s Cold War alliance with Pakistan's military dictatorship and the opposition of influential Muslim states like Saudi Arabia to Pakistan's partitioning meant there was little international pressure for a proper inquiry into the atrocities of the war. Within Bangladesh, coups, assassinations and vendettas came to define the political landscape. Successive governments became peopled by those with pro-Pakistani or Islamist backgrounds and connections. Mojaheed's Jamaat even found itself in power for a spell within a coalition government. "The primary issue for politicians was to survive," says Ali Riaz, a Bangladesh scholar and professor of political science at Illinois State University. "Thinking about the issue of murders and genocide became secondary." (From TIME's Archives: The bloody birth of Bangladesh.)


Observers say not grappling with what happened has had a profound cost for Bangladesh. "It's incredibly damaging for society," says Caitlin Reiger, director of international policy relations at the International Center for Transitional Justice in New York City. "Imagine the trauma of people who have suffered the loss of family members, rape and other violence and still have to live down the street from the likely perpetrators." Reiger and others claim this has led to Bangladesh's notorious culture of impunity, where corruption is widespread, extrajudicial killings by security personnel is still common and justice is known to come, if ever, oft-delayed and deferred. A tribunal, in theory, would lance the boil at the source of the rot.
In practice, though, these proceedings are far more fraught, especially four decades after the fact. Doubts still swirl around a U.N.-backed tribunal in nearby Cambodia that delivered its first verdict last week, sentencing the chief prison master of the Khmer Rouge — the radical, collectivist regime that oversaw the killings of nearly 2 million people in the mid-1970s — to 35 years in jail. The sentence could possibly be shortened to 19 years and has raised howls of protest from many survivors of the Cambodian genocide. Still, most observers have cautiously applauded this belated, imperfect justice — delivered despite years of foot-dragging by the ruling government, which has ex–Khmer Rouge cadres in its ranks.


In Bangladesh, there's little question about the political will of the present government, run by the secularist Awami League, a party born during the fight for Bangladeshi independence. But there are fears that it is using the trials to grind its proverbial ax and target political enemies. "The process has to be as transparent as possible," says Riaz. "If they fail to do this properly, it'll be a disaster for the nation." At the moment, the country's specially arranged International Crimes Tribunal is operating mostly on its own. As long as the country maintains the death penalty — executing just last year five men responsible for the 1975 murder of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, the country's founding father and also father of the current Prime Minister — assistance from the international community will be limited.


Experts imagine the trials in Bangladesh, like those in Cambodia, may take years. While the four now under arrest may be the most well-known participants in the genocide, countless others remain scattered across the country, abroad in Pakistan and elsewhere; extraditions look unlikely. Prosecutors will also be hampered by a woeful lack of documentary and forensic evidence. Low-lying Bangladesh sits atop an alluvial plain and some of the most common killing zones in 1971 were by water pumping stations and rivers, where bodies were literally flushed away into the sea.
Still, to this day, almost every single household in the country has a story to tell of a family member slain. Most counts of the genocide arrive between 1 million and 3 million people killed; 200,000 to half a million women were raped. In Bangladesh, perhaps more than in any other grim vetting of the past, raw personal testimonies may have to comprise the bulk of the proceedings. "This should never be about targeting one political group," says Reiger, "but about painstakingly following the evidence and seeing where it leads you." For a country seeking to put its ghosts to bed, the road ahead is still shrouded in shadow.


Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...#ixzz1I4PTKFff

[Bengal_Tiger]

I am quite busy now so I still do not have time to post a detailed post. Just ignore the colour-obsessed Punjabi traitor with an inferiority complex known as Trollrunner.

However whilst I eventually find sufficient time to give a response, a couple of points.

1. The Hamdoor Rahman Official Pakistani state report in to the 1971 war says that the NA-PAKistan army carried out atrocities including rape and murder.

The Report's findings accuse the Pakistani Army of carrying out senseless and wanton arson, killings in the countryside, killing of intellectuals and professionals and burying them in mass graves, killing of Bengali Officers and soldiers on the pretence of quelling their rebellion, killing East Pakistani civilian officers, businessmen and industrialists, raping a large number of East Pakistani women as a deliberate act of revenge, retaliation and torture, and deliberate killing of members of the Hindu minority...The report accused General Yahya Khan, of being a womanizer and an alcoholic.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamoodur_Rahman_Commission

So even the Punjabis admit their army killed and raped and were a bunch of perverts and drunkards, led by a pervert and drunkard.

Yahya Khan was a pervert and drunkard who commited the illegal act of blocking the democratically elected government of the united Pakistan which had the support of East Pakistan, Balochistan and NWFP (3 of the 5 provinces of Pakistan) from assuming office.

He will be remembered in history...as the loser...who lost half his country in 1971 (*ouch...must hurt...half of "his" country...*ouch*).

2. The army operation against Bengalis, the majority of the united Pakistan, was illegal and is akin to Gaddafi's massacre of his people.



Dictator Gaddafi who has launched a war against his own people.



Drunkard and pervert, commander of NA-PAKistan forces in 1971, Yahya Khan with actress Noor Jehan.



NA-Pakistan dictator who like Gaddafi launched a war against his own citizens, setting the army supposed to protect them to murder and kill them.

Anyway the war took place. NA-PAKistan was helped by:

- America including Zionist Jew, Henry Kissinger.

- China, a communist state.

- Iran which gave 74 planes in 1971

- Many Arab countries.

However Bengalis kicked ass, and Punjabis have been crying and squealing for the pat 40 years over this defeat.

I just don't have time to go into the history of the war, nor the injustice which preceded it for 20 years but all I can say is even the whole of the Punjabi intelligentsia regard 1971 as a shame:

- Yassir Latif Hamdani, a writer and lawyer from Lahore, who is a Punjabi nationalist (and anti-Bacha Khan).

- Hamid Mir, a well-known journalist.

- Nawaz Sharif, the man who runs the party which rules Punjab who has said Pakistan should apologize.

The Pakistani intelligentsia are in virtual complete agreement that 1971 was a tragedy and a crime. Those who don't include right-wing nationalists in the military and their supporters (e.g. Trollrunner) and fascistic pseudo-religious groups such as "Jamat i Islami" (sic).

Trolls on the internet such as Trollrunner, Platinum786, Shmuck/Rungroot (the Punjabi Sardar jee who recently described the Pakistani flag as "sh*t" after the release of CIA operative Raymond Davis) count for very little.

On a personal note as a Muslim Bengali, I am very happy about 1971 because it was a time when we gave those stupid gorillas from Punjab, a good deserved beating which they are still crying about now.

We defeated them, humiliated them, our Mukhti Bahini forced them to say "Joy Bangla"....and then kicked them out of our motherland.

Lolzz....sucks to be a Punjabi.

Bengalis are the vanquishers of Punjabis, the race who aided the British to kill Muslims, worked with the Sikhs to conquer Muslim Peshawar.

It feels great to be a winner...great to be a defeater of Punjabis..40 years of Bangladeshi freedom...feels good.

Good luck to Sri Lanka in the cricket world cup final...where they will face India, who defeated (yes that nasty word which you are all too familiar with my Punjabi friends) a certain "Pakistan" today.

lolzzz

In my next post, I will focus on Wali Khan and his heroic role in the 1971 war.

[Michin Khel]

During my stay in Qatar i noted that punjabis boys in our school used to insult each other by calling each other bengali. I consulted one of them and asked his opinion about bengalis, he started making fun of skin colour of bengalis and of their height. The punjabi guy himself was chocolate-coloured. We can guess how punjabis looked down upon bengalis. It can be guess what would have been the attitude of punjabi officers appointed in east pakistan towards bengalis. Bengalis had complain that the governament officers in west pakistan treat them worse than british and i am sure it must be true.
Shame on pakistan army for killing and raping bengali civilians, pakistan is so embarrassed that topic of 1971 war is absent in mutala pakistan while detail description of 1965 war is given

[Pakhtunzai]

My grandads brother was one of the prisoners of war when they got captured in Bangladesh as a rebellion against the crimes of Pakistan army. He told us when he was released he mentioned how the Bengali crushed glass and made the prisoners drink it. Then 1 of my Bengali friends told me the exact same story too except that the Pakistani army did it! I know which one to believe regarding what the Pakistani army were like.. Bengalis

[Michin Khel]

^Both commited crimes , before 1971 people of karachi and east pakistan were continously demonstrating violent and bloody protests...violence is in their nature. After defeat of pakistan, bengalis commited horrible crimes against entrapped pakistanis. Punjabis, pashtuns, biharis all were targeted by angry bengalis. In jaisor 150 families were trapped, their males were killed and their women were raped and then killed. Similar incidents to pashtuns and other pakistanis happened in all districts of bangladesh. Actually indian army took care of mukti bahni otherwise even more bloodshed would have occur.

[Michin Khel]

Then 1 of my Bengali friends told me the exact same story too except that the Pakistani army did it! I know which one to believe regarding what the Pakistani army were like.. Bengalis

you mean you believe that your grand dad brother was a liar? Dear hating pakistani doesnt mean you should be blind to facts.

[Pakhtunzai]

^ I don't hate Pakistan I hate the government that rule it. The government control the army and what they teach in their schools. Some of my cousins and uncles are in the Pakistan army too, they are only told what to do by the highers ups and I don't blame them they are just poor people who need an income. My cousin and his fellow troops are made to go literally black and a bag of bones only to go and attack Waziristan and the areas surrounding. My cousin opted himself out to go there because of hurting his fellow brothers, instead hes a "spy" in Kashmir right on the border.

Please don't ever think I hate Pakistan, my family live there and thats where my forefathers settled, again I repeat its the politics and the actions I hate and when Pakistan was made it was for muslims, it just seems really hypocrital now since they are attacking their own muslim brothers and sisters.

[salahuddin]

You know, I smell a Rat when I see this tiger of bengal come on Pashtun forums. Everything he says is a big contradiction. One side, this guys speaks about Pakistan's Jihad role, then on the other side, he speaks and associates Pakistani leaders with Qaddafi, the same Qaddafi who is being attacked by a Alqaeda Leader who was released from Pakistan in 2008 by the Americans.

I know he has a thing against Secularists but on the other hand, he still silently spreads this Jihadi-crap on here, Another contradiction of his, is his support for global Jihadis but on the other hand he speaks highly of a victim of Jihadis in Pakistan and his name is Bacha Khan.

Another contradiction of bengal tiger, is that he openly supports Islamic Jihad, but on the other he speaks highly of a Secular party called ANP.

Dude, you are confusing.

Secondly, Its a well known fact, that Bengalis contributed the most in the creation of Pakistan, so in essence, we Pashtuns should equally blame the Bengalis for not defending the rights of Pashtuns and taking a bigger part in both the rigging of the refendum plus the prevention of tribal pashtuns from participating their vote.

Bengladesh has zero to offer any pashtun struggle. Do not get your hopes so high. All this insulting of Pakistan has no power in our eyes especially from a person like you who has a hidden closet Jihadi Agenda.

[salahuddin]

During my stay in Qatar i noted that punjabis boys in our school used to insult each other by calling each other bengali. I consulted one of them and asked his opinion about bengalis, he started making fun of skin colour of bengalis and of their height. The punjabi guy himself was chocolate-coloured. We can guess how punjabis looked down upon bengalis. It can be guess what would have been the attitude of punjabi officers appointed in east pakistan towards bengalis. Bengalis had complain that the governament officers in west pakistan treat them worse than british and i am sure it must be true.
Shame on pakistan army for killing and raping bengali civilians, pakistan is so embarrassed that topic of 1971 war is absent in mutala pakistan while detail description of 1965 war is given

But its a well known fact, that Pashtuns were in large numbers in that army supporting Pakistan. Why does bengal tiger not report to us of their crimes on his people.

It doesnt work both ways.

[roadrunner]

a couple of impressive posts there salhuddin.

It's such a Bengali trait to be siding with Pashtuns and claiming they put one over on the Punjabis for them. The truth is if Pashtuns are Nationalists (and most arent imo) then the last people they'd need help from are Banglis.

[roadrunner]

1. The Hamdoor Rahman Official Pakistani state report in to the 1971 war says that the NA-PAKistan army carried out atrocities including rape and murder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamoodur_Rahman_Commission

So even the Punjabis admit their army killed and raped and were a bunch of perverts and drunkards, led by a pervert and drunkard.

Wiki is very weak.

In fact the Hamoodur Rahman Commision Report did not say that Punjabis did anything. It, like the subsequent independent investigations, showed that Bangladeshis were raping everyone (even some pro-Pakistani Bangladeshis raped Bangladeshi women).

There is reliable evidence to show that during this period the miscreants indulged in large scale massacres and rape against pro-Pakistan elements, in the towns of Dacca, Narayanganj, Chittagong, Chandraghona, Rangamati, Khulna, Dinajpur, Ghafargaoa, Kushtia, Ishurdi, Noakhali, Sylhet, Maulvi Bazaar, Rangpur, Saidpur, Jessore, Barisal, Mymensingh, Rajshahi, Pabna, Sirajgonj, Comilla, Brahman Baria, Bogra, Naugaon, Santahar, and several other smaller places.

31. In the circumstances that prevailed in East Pakistan from the 1st of March to the 16th of December 1971, it was hardly possible to obtain an accurate estimate of the toll of death and destruction caused by the Awami League militants and later by the Pakistan Army. It must also be remembered that even after the military action of the 25th of march 1971, Indian infiltrators and members of the Mukti Bahini sponsored by the Awami League continued to indulge in killings, rape and arson during their raids on peaceful villages in East Pakistan, not only in order to cause panic and disruption and carry out their plans of subversion, but also to punish those East Pakistanis who were not willing to go along with them. In any estimate of the extent of atrocities alleged to have been committed on the East Pakistani people, the death and destruction caused by the Awami League militants throughout this period and the atrocities committed by them on their own brothers and sisters must, therefore, be always be kept in view.

34. The falsity of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman's repeated allegation that Pakistani troops had raped 200,000 Bengali girls in 1971 was borne out when the abortion team he had commissioned from Britain in early 1972 found that its workload involved the termination of only a hundred or more pregnancies.
http://www.bangla2000.com/bangladesh.../chapter2.shtm

[roadrunner]

Bangladesh Opens War-Crimes Trial for Genocide Suspects - TIME

Two years ago, TIME met Ali Ahsan Mojaheed at the headquarters of his far-right Islamist party, nestled amid a warren of religious bookshops and seminaries in Dhaka. He welcomed this reporter by peeling a clutch of ripe lychees. "Our fruit is the sweetest," said the secretary general of Bangladesh's Jamaat-e-Islami, proffering a sticky hand. But the conversation soon soured. Asked about the traumatic legacy of Bangladesh's 1971 independence — when the territory then known as East Pakistan split from West Pakistan in an orgy of bloodshed — Mojaheed dismissed the need for a proper reckoning with the past. "This is a dead issue," he almost growled. "It cannot be raised."

So they arrested a BANGALDESHI on charges of rape and violence.

I'm not denying that they were raping everyone like crazy in 1971 am I? dohh