Freedom Of Speech Is Not Negotiable! - Bill Maher

[imb706]

Not the biggest fan of Maher, but heś spot on here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmpM-b-IsYY

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Except freedom of speech is limited in Europe as far as accepting the given history of the Holocaust is concerned. Again, I'm not a Holocaust-denier but I am concerned that this victim-card is played way too often and way too aggressively.

Maher is right, by the way. Muslims are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy toooooooo sensitive when it comes to their religious beliefs. They become irrational when their faith is challenged and when that happens, expect the kitchen sink.

Moreover, Maher hits the nail on the head when he talks about how Christianity, in the Dark Ages, was how exactly Islam is right now. Islam DESPERATELY needs its own reformation. Unfortunately, that's impossible given how any deviation from the Quran and Sunnah, as dictated and explained by the Medieval scholars, is Bid'ah.

[imb706]

Reformation? But the Protestant Reformation made Christianity more violent and backwards. Maybe you mean it needs some liberalization and secularization.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Reformation? But the Protestant Reformation made Christianity more violent and backwards. Maybe you mean it needs some liberalization and secularization.

The entire eras of the Reformation (16th century), Renaissance (14th-16th centuries), Enlightenment (17th century), Age of Reason, etc helped shape the modern 'West' economically, politically, religiously, culturally, militarily, etc..

The Eastern civilizations, particularly the Islamic civilizations, never had anything equal to these movements and hence their present condition and their 'Medieval' state of mind. That's why most Muslims cannot even begin to understand European liberal democratic values (which includes the concept of freedom of speech). There's a huge black intellectual hole as far as Muslim academia is concerned. The fact that Muslim contribution to science has been next to nothing since the 15th century speaks volumes in itself. Nothing more needs to be said.

What strikes me most about the Reformation was that set values and what was said to be God-given authority were openly challenged and protested against. The Reformation, by and large, liberated millions of people in the end.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Lewanai, if you are going to worship Europeans, at have the decency to study their history properly. So you can avoid making a fool of yourself

The reformation created a more volatile situation. And more violence and more war was the outcome of reformation.

Enlightenment was an alternative of the same kind of resistence against catholicism. Some reformed christianity, others became disbelievers.

Both reformation and enlightenment were manifestation of rebellion against repressive state religion.

[imb706]

The entire eras of the Reformation (16th century), Renaissance (14th-16th centuries), Enlightenment (17th century), Age of Reason, etc helped shape the modern 'West' economically, politically, religiously, culturally, militarily, etc..

The Eastern civilizations, particularly the Islamic civilizations, never had anything equal to these movements and hence their present condition and their 'Medieval' state of mind. That's why most Muslims cannot even begin to understand European liberal democratic values (which includes the concept of freedom of speech). There's a huge black intellectual hole as far as Muslim academia is concerned. The fact that Muslim contribution to science has been next to nothing since the 15th century speaks volumes in itself. Nothing more needs to be said.

What strikes me most about the Reformation was that set values and what was said to be God-given authority were openly challenged and protested against. The Reformation, by and large, liberated millions of people in the end.

Um...no.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Reformation

¨The Protestant Reformation was the European Christian reform movement that established Protestantism as a constituent branch of contemporary Christianity. It began in 1517 when Martin Luther published The Ninety-Five Theses, and concluded in 1648 with the Treaty of Westphalia that ended one hundred and thirty-one years of consecutive European religious wars.[1]¨

¨The Reformation led to a series of religious wars that culminated in the Thirty Years' War, which devastated much of Germany, killing between 25 and 40% of its population.[14] From 1618 to 1648 the Catholic House of Habsburg and its allies fought against the Protestant princes of Germany, supported at various times by Denmark, Sweden and France. The Habsburgs, who ruled Spain, Austria, the Spanish Netherlands and much of Germany and Italy, were staunch defenders of the Catholic Church. Some historians believe that the era of the Reformation came to a close when Catholic France allied itself, first in secret and later on the battlefields, with Protestant states against the Habsburg dynasty.[1] For the first time since the days of Luther, political and national convictions again outweighed religious convictions in Europe.¨

The enlightenment was a reaction to the reformation.

The reformation was many times, but largely a fundamentalist Christian reaction to the ¨unchristian¨ Catholic church, and ironically, an uprising against the economic rules of the Catholic church, which are based on the Bible in the first place.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Ah yeah, Sangar. Polite as always. The Reformation only caused more violence because the Temple of Hate (the Catholic Church) was openly challenged. Millions were oppressed under the Catholic Church's system for over a thousand years and when they rose up, the natural outcome became war. No surprises there - the Catholic dukes and monarchs tried to crush the new movement with everything they had. Perhaps imb or yourself can enlighten me as to how it was the fault of the Lutherans or the Anglicans...

Moreover, why was not the overthrow of a corrupt and oppressive clergy a liberation? Those priests are still out there raping kids.

The Enlightenment was not a movement in the same sense of the word. It was, as the name suggests, an awakening - the dawning of the modern era, the birth of varied values, ideals and ideas.... That's where liberalism and secularism (and even nationalism) were born. I have never come across anything resembling the statement that the Enlightenment started because of the horrors of the 30 Years War. Perhaps you can shed some more light on that....

[Dinosaur Khan]

Islam does'nt need reformations, muslims are needed to be reformed back to proper pathaway of islam.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Islam does'nt need reformations, muslims are needed to be reformed back to proper pathaway of islam.

May I ask, what is the proper pathway of Islam, there are so many pathways explained by 100's of hadiths with their own unique explanation.

[Dinosaur Khan]

= Quran

= sahih hadith

i have yet to see contradictions in basic islamic teachings.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

= Quran

= sahih hadith

i have yet to see contradictions in basic islamic teachings.

But as with every relgion, you will always get a opposed view. So how can we make every single Muslim to follow one straight path guided by one scholar or mullah? its impossible!

[شمله ور خراساني]

You tell me smartypants, what school of Protestantism did Copernicus belong to? And what school of Protestantism did Galileo belong to?

And what role did trade and contact with different continents atribute to reformation?

[Dinosaur Khan]

^Actually Leavanay zalmay, an athiest, thinks that islam is lagging behind because there are no modifications in it. But according to me, if we start modifying Quran & hadith then whole concept of religion of islam become invalid for us.
We have to correct ourselves rather than correcting divine teachings of islam.
and ofcourse i am against mullahism.

[imb706]

Ah yeah, Sangar. Polite as always. The Reformation only caused more violence because the Temple of Hate (the Catholic Church) was openly challenged.

Yeah, I guess John Calvin and Martin Luther had nothing to do with that, lol.

[imb706]

Uh...no. It hasn´t on the behalf of islamic crybabies.