Extreme Humuliation of Women in Sudan and other Arab Countries

[Toramana]

Below is a video of how women are publically punished in some Arab countries. The same the Taleban did in Swat. All Pashtuns should stand up to such kind of barbaric ways and other forms of inhuman treatement to the weak and the vulnerable; otherwise they stand the chance of losing whatever humanity is left in them. No to AL-Qaueda...No to Taleban...No to Arab traditions....

YouTube - Sudan (An Other Arabic State) ,Whipping woman in front of all! Arabic Culture 2011[/URL]

[ScimitarXEdge]

Weak and Vulnerable?

I would agree if she did something very minor like show her hair or maybe wasn't dressed appropriately.


If she did a more serious crime like fornication or adultery; then well she did it to herself.

We need to know the context before we can protest this act. If she did no wrong then I will be the first to protest this.

Being a woman and doing immoral things does not give you a free license; not saying that's the case here. But you can't cry "Weak and Vulnerable"; just because she's a female if she is the one who did wrong first.


If you want to see Weak and Vulnerable

watch this, the product of your NATO/Coalition Heroes.

[ScimitarXEdge]

By the way, STOP ETHNICIZING things, Thanks


remember in Pashtunwali; we have Tormakh, where adulterers are executed;

And I know it's not an "Arab Tradition" since there's no such Arab word called "Tor"

Pashtunwali :: Khyber.ORG


"Tor

As has been suggested earlier that Pukhtoons are sensitive about the honour of their women folk and slight molestation of the women is considered a serious and an intolerable offence. The cases of adultery and illicit relations are put down with iron hand in and no quarter is given to culprits either male or female. Casting of an evil eye on woman is tantamount to imperil one's life. Both sexes, therefore, scrupulously avoid indulgence in immoral practices.

If a Pukhtoon discovers that a particular person is carrying a liaison with any female of his house, then he neither spares the life of the female nor that of her seducer. This is called Tor in Pashto (literally meaning black but used for public disgrace and defamation) or stigmatization of both male and female who are found guilty of illicit amour on sufficient evidence. Both the man and woman are put to death according to the customary law and this type of notoriety, abuse and slander is wiped out with the blood of the culprit. Besides adultery, death penalty is also prescribed for elopement which also falls under the purview of Tor. In cases of Tor murder is not accounted for and the woman relatives are justified by the tribal law to kill their female relation as well as her paramour. In case any of the persons guilty of adultery succeeds in absconding, the heirs of the female have every right to kill him/her whenever and wherever an opportunity presents itself. Otherwise the matter remains Paighor (reproach).

[randolph85]

you secularists make no sense. first you tell us men and women are equal, then post something about women in order to appeal to our sensibilities and use women for your own agenda.

its like video of the taliban executing a woman in kabul stadium. never mind the fact that she was convicted of murder....shes a woman omg! how evil! they cant do that to a woman! you should infact be cheering that she got the same punishment as a man would, equality yo.

[IamDZJ]

thamumtarag adultery is more likely to be committed between two people of the opposite gender. where is her partner in crime?? how come i have never come across a guy having that happen to him in public for committing adultery ???

[Toramana]

Weak and Vulnerable?

I would agree if she did something very minor like show her hair or maybe wasn't dressed appropriately.


If she did a more serious crime like fornication or adultery; then well she did it to herself.

We need to know the context before we can protest this act. If she did no wrong then I will be the first to protest this.

Being a woman and doing immoral things does not give you a free license; not saying that's the case here. But you can't cry "Weak and Vulnerable"; just because she's a female if she is the one who did wrong first.


If you want to see Weak and Vulnerable

watch this, the product of your NATO/Coalition Heroes.

I wonder how could one justify public humuliation of someone and that also a woman even if she has committed a sin. That indicates the moral-bankruptcy that an intellectually and civilizationally barren society engenders.

And don't even talk about the West. We know its imperialism but it was not the only imperialism in history. Compared to other imperialisms that sanctioned the enslavement of the dependents of the slain enemy and selling them like commodity goods for use as cancubines (sex objects), slaves, and raw money.

Although, my forefathers rendered immense sacrifices against British Imperialism and I am fundamentally against all kinds of imperialism but it would be ignoble not accepting that British Imperiualism also had some positive contribution to our society. Imagine if we were under Arab Imperialism disguised as Islam!

And world morality has far advanced beyond the crude moral sense of desert-dwellors for GOD's sake.

[ScimitarXEdge]

DaZahroJam

That's exactly my point, we dont know the context

maybe her partner in crime is gonna get whipped afterwards?

and secondly, perhaps she was exposed of being a zania by getting pregnant where by her "partner in crime" wouldn't be known without a paternity test.

Poiint is let's not assume she's being flogged for no reason; at the same time if she is, then we need more information so we can legitimately protest.

[Toramana]

By the way, STOP ETHNICIZING things, Thanks


remember in Pashtunwali; we have Tormakh, where adulterers are executed;

And I know it's not an "Arab Tradition" since there's no such Arab word called "Tor"

Pashtunwali :: Khyber.ORG


"Tor

As has been suggested earlier that Pukhtoons are sensitive about the honour of their women folk and slight molestation of the women is considered a serious and an intolerable offence. The cases of adultery and illicit relations are put down with iron hand in and no quarter is given to culprits either male or female. Casting of an evil eye on woman is tantamount to imperil one's life. Both sexes, therefore, scrupulously avoid indulgence in immoral practices.

If a Pukhtoon discovers that a particular person is carrying a liaison with any female of his house, then he neither spares the life of the female nor that of her seducer. This is called Tor in Pashto (literally meaning black but used for public disgrace and defamation) or stigmatization of both male and female who are found guilty of illicit amour on sufficient evidence. Both the man and woman are put to death according to the customary law and this type of notoriety, abuse and slander is wiped out with the blood of the culprit. Besides adultery, death penalty is also prescribed for elopement which also falls under the purview of Tor. In cases of Tor murder is not accounted for and the woman relatives are justified by the tribal law to kill their female relation as well as her paramour. In case any of the persons guilty of adultery succeeds in absconding, the heirs of the female have every right to kill him/her whenever and wherever an opportunity presents itself. Otherwise the matter remains Paighor (reproach).

Every form of inhumanity is condemnable be that in religion or tradition. I don't care about Pashtunwali if it has some archaic traditions. But even then, Pashtun form of punishment has a bit of fairness whence the male paramour is also not pardened. Moreover, Pashtunwali is not some rigid code like a religion static and unchangeable.

But I wonder why you and Al-Chemist are so sensitive to any reference to Arabs and react to it so promptly!

[ScimitarXEdge]

Every form of inhumanity is condemnable be that in religion or tradition. I don't care about Pashtunwali. But even then, Pashtun form of punishment has a bit of fairness whence the male paramour is also not pardened. Moreover, Pashtunwali is not some rigid code like a religion static and unchangeable.

But I wonder why you and Al-Chemist are so sensitive to any reference to Arabs and react to it so promptly!

Actually it is; because in Islam, you're only punished with death for marital adultery in Islam; in Pashtunwali you're punished for Fornication and Adultery. So it's much much much harsher.

Clearly Pashtunwali is static as these values are considered the Definition of Pashtoon values; hence any compromise of them would be a deviation of what's Pashtoon and would be deemed disgrace. See it's arguments like this that demonstrate that you speak from the perspective of someone completely outside of Pashtoon culture. You speak Pashto, but there is serious doubt if you are one or just learned Pashto recently due to the high volume of Pashto training for Geopoltical purposes.

The reason I respond when you reference Arabs is because you always wanted to play Ethnic card to try and stimulate animosity between people of different ethnicities. There's NO REASON to even mention the Ethnicity of people involved if your goal is merely to condemn the act and NOT make a racial/ethnic statement. Especially when Sudanese are not Arabs, but Arabic speaking Africans.


I would do the same even if you were some Pashtoon hater and said "Pashtoons are killing humiliating women"

[Fatima]

Are you using the plight of a woman to push your own agenda?

That's disgusting.

[ScimitarXEdge]

what does this have to do with us secularists? We secularists have one goal which is to give our people the same luxuries that you enjoy in your western country. Osman don't be hating secularism when you probably live in a full blown secular government yourself

and that's why Secularists are morally bankrupt; they view things in terms of Luxury not whether it's actually beneficial.

[randolph85]

what does this have to do with us secularists? We secularists have one goal which is to give our people the same luxuries that you enjoy in your western country. Osman don't be hating secularism when you probably live in a full blown secular government yourself

good luck with that, chief.

[Catya Sher]

^ !!! - pic tells thousands of words here in reply.
Luxury to overeat to oblivion, to become addicts to all sort of nefarious things - food addiction is suffered by a shocking percentage in America, just by itself.

I hope Afghans NEVER NEVER experience this type of copycat American lifestyle

[Manzareh]

she is sexy..droool*

[ScimitarXEdge]

I wonder how could one justify public humuliation of someone and that also a woman even if she committed a sin. That indicates the moral-bankruptcy that an intellectually and civilizationally barren society engenders.

And don't even talk about the West. We know its imperialism but it was not the only imperialism in history. Compared other imperialisms that sanctioned the enslavement of the dependents of the slain enemy and selling them like commodity goods for use as cancubines, slaves, etc.

Although, my forefathers rendered immense sacrifices against British Imperialism and I am fundamentally against that imperialism but it would be ignoble not accepting that it had also had some positive contribution to our society. Imagine if we were under Arab Imperialism disguised as Islam!

And world morality has far advanced beyond the crude moral sense of desert-dwellors for GOD's sake.

You assume your moral standards are true; which there's no basis except an Appeal to Popularity. Appeal to Novelty, and other very generic Logic Fallacies Secularists usually peddle.

Here's a startling revelation for you; something isn't "Valid" JUST because it's "Newer"; I know when you say "advanced" you mean "Newer"; there's nothing "advanced" with tolerating corruption. What's crude here is your lack of standards; not the punishment for a crime. Maybe if you had morals you'd see that it's not the punishment that's the problem; but the person's choice to indulge in their corruption that illicit the punishment which is. Don't do anything wrong, no punishment. So much for your fraudulent claims of logic.

If you want to see Moral Bankruptcy; we only need to look at how you're exploiting Women and their vulnerability to protect the morally corrupt from facing justice. Or on one hand you'll disparage Islam's views on gender and claim males and females are identical and equal in every practical sense; but then play the Emotional card of portraying women as weak and vulnerable; that right there is the epitome of moral bankrupt.

As for your claims of imperialism; Imperialism IS ONLY A EUROPEAN PHENOMENA, that's just how it is; The definition of Imperialism was modeled precisely because of their actions. There have been no positive effects. Your people were forced to leave their homelands and live in Europe/North America or elsewhere BECAUSE of Imperialism, Your People are POOR and live off of scraps BECAUSE OF Imperialism, Your people are Now being Genetically Crippled forever, BECAUSE of Imperialism. What's ignoble is how you can render anything "positive" out of that. Your People are DIVIDED, because of Imperialism. Arabs never had any hand in that, so why should we make them our enemies? If you mean only a handful of deranged Al-Qaeda members who have created a comparatively smaller degree of Upheaval; then you have little to go by, since most Arabs oppose Al-Qaeda. Go Ask Iraqis what they think of Al-Qaeda and then tell me what Arabs are like.

For you to claim that you're Against Imperialism and then in the next breath make the most disgraceful Apologetics for them; just shows how fake you are and which side you're really on. If You somehow think Europeans Imperialism didn't go around raping and pillaging then you are MISTAKEN.

As someone raised in the West there's numerous history books which reveal how European males had went around literally stripping Native Indian women and VIOLENTLY forcing them into having sex. All one needs to do is look up General Custer and what he did with "squaws" to know reality. When Muslims took captives they had the right to say NO, and there marks the difference between the "Civilized" Europeans and the "Barbaric Bedouins" you speak of. Slaves in the Middle East also had a chance to NOT be Slaves and advance and progress in society; some of whom eventually became the Rulers!! I'm sure you'd be struggling to show one incident of that ever happening in Europe, while I can show dozens in Islamic Empires.


Prove to us that this woman committed a minor offense and not immoral acts; and we'll protest her punishment, until you can do that; it's much ado about nothing.