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  • Shia Pakistani beats his son arrested in UK

    Devout Muslim guilty of making boys beat themselves during Shia ceremony
    Steve Bird

    A Muslim was found guilty of child cruelty yesterday for forcing two boys to beat themselves with a bladed whip during a religious ceremony.

    Syed Mustafa Zaidi made the boys, aged 13 and 15, flog themselves on their backs with a five-bladed implement called a zanjeer zani.

    Both needed hospital treatment for cuts sustained during the Shia ceremony commemorating the death of a grandson of the Prophet Muhammad. Zaidi now faces up to ten years in jail.

    The boys, who cannot be named for legal reasons, admitted that they had wanted to beat themselves, but not under duress and not using blades.

    Throughout the trial at Manchester Crown Court, Zaidi, 44, insisted that the act was part of the boys’ religion and therefore not illegal. But the jury convicted him of two counts of child cruelty.

    The court was told that despite attending a meeting two days before the ashura ceremony at which elders made it clear that boys were not permitted to flog themselves, Zaidi was determined to make them participate.

    At the service at a community centre in Levenshulme, Manchester, Zaidi began flogging himself. The elders asked him to stop because they were concerned that he was harming himself. Instead, he washed his blood from the ceremonial whip and handed it to the 15-year-old boy.

    The 13-year-old told the court that Zaidi urged them both: “Start doing it, start doing it.” Despite their protests that it would hurt and saying, “We don’t want to do it”, Zaidi removed one boy’s shirt and forced him to flog himself.

    The younger boy said the other “swung it once or twice and said, ‘I don’t want to do it any more’.”

    He said that Zaidi pulled and pushed him as he tried to take his shirt off and said: “Keep doing it. This is a sad moment. Look, he’s not doing it.”

    Both boys said that they had flogged themselves with a zanjeer zani regarded as suitable for children from the age of 6 in Pakistan, but had never used the adult whip.

    The jury was shown a 20-minute film of the ceremony featuring Zaidi flagellating himself until his back was bloody and cut. The ritual marks the death of Husayn, grandson of Muhammad and a central figure in the Shia faith. He was killed at the Battle of Karbala alongside 72 members of his family about 1,400 years ago. Performing the matam — self-flagellation — is believed to bring out feelings of grief at their deaths.

    Zaidi, a warehouse supervisor from Eccles, Lancashire, denied that his actions had been wrong, saying: “This is a part of our religion.”

    He said the 15-year-old boy had performed a “perfect matam” and that it was not a “stitching matam” because he did not sustain heavy cuts. “It was an emotional time and the children were happy, they asked for it. No one forced anyone.”

    He said that if he had known it was illegal he would not have persuaded the children to take part.

    After the verdict, Carol Jackson, a lawyer with the Greater Manchester Crown Prosecution Service, said: “The CPS wishes to make it clear that this prosecution was not an attack upon the practices or ceremonies of Shia Muslims.

    “Indeed, the prosecution relied as part of its evidence upon the president of the local Shia community centre.”

    Sentencing was adjourned until next month.

    Devout Muslim guilty of making boys beat themselves during Shia ceremony - Times Online

  • #2
    Do fellow Members here think that such acts of self harm and cruelty are acceptable in this modern day and age?

    Do you think it is not backward of Shia's to be whipping themselves with sharp blades in public in a Modern developed western country?

    Who agrees with me that this should be banned and condem by Medical professionals as Self Harm and lunacy.

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree with you maseeda, this non-sense should be banned.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by MazloomYarMasud View Post
        Do fellow Members here think that such acts of self harm and cruelty are acceptable in this modern day and age?

        Do you think it is not backward of Shia's to be whipping themselves with sharp blades in public in a Modern developed western country?

        Who agrees with me that this should be banned and condem by Medical professionals as Self Harm and lunacy.

        YouTube - CRUCIFIXION, CEBU, PHILIPPINES

        YouTube - 'Sadhak' walk bare feet on burning fire in Jhalawar

        YouTube - Walking on Hot Coals in Estonia - Palin, Michael - New Europe - BBC

        i would want to know more of whatever faith one holds in whichever form of a greater power they believe in as long as it enables them to go through such crucial pain and not have a tad bit of fear in their hearts.
        you not having faith in anything else rather than your own flesh and bones obviously leaves you with no other choice but to fear for them. your lack of faith leaves you in fear. you don't even trust your own physical being that much.. tsk tsk tsk

        Last edited by IamDZJ; 01-01-2011, 11:55 PM.

        I am no bird, and no nest ensnares me.

        non commercial would cost less if he was in charge himself which he plans on doing. right now it's n herat but soon it will be in qanadahar.

        Comment


        • #5
          ZohraJaam, but people who are depressed tend to cutt their wrists, self harm is self harm, these people are not sane, and their self harm is not well documented because if it was then we would witness a long list of mental retardation, supersititious psychopathic tendancies etc and the list goes on.

          My arguement is, in a western civilised society, is the act of self harm by Shias acceptible and should be allowed or banned completely?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by MazloomYarMasud View Post
            ZohraJaam, but people who are depressed tend to cutt their wrists, self harm is self harm, these people are not sane, and their self harm is not well documented because if it was then we would witness a long list of mental retardation, supersititious psychopathic tendancies etc and the list goes on.

            My arguement is, in a western civilised society, is the act of self harm by Shias acceptible and should be allowed or banned completely?
            how many times have you cut your wrists?? how do you know that it is a form of self harm and that only??
            this is a religion. sure i don't believe in it, but i am not going to disregard every single believer as being insane just because i don't understand why they do what do. not to mention, you are an atheist. your arguments are nowhere near being 'acceptable'. the distance between acceptance and not acceptance is not that far away.

            I am no bird, and no nest ensnares me.

            non commercial would cost less if he was in charge himself which he plans on doing. right now it's n herat but soon it will be in qanadahar.

            Comment


            • #7
              Shia from any part of the world would love to do this.
              Can I ask you something Why you added Pakistani?
              When you want to discuss Shias?
              yao warokay ghwandi baagh ao pa khwa ye seen rawan!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Shehbaz Khan View Post
                Shia from any part of the world would love to do this.
                Can I ask you something Why you added Pakistani?
                When you want to discuss Shias?
                Because he gets paid by the intelligence community.

                Comment


                • #9
                  ^ ok =D
                  yao warokay ghwandi baagh ao pa khwa ye seen rawan!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Da ZahroJam, of course these things exist in all beliefs and are condemnable but what is regrettable is that when wider society accords it sanction and approval (and where it is irreversibly ingrained in the ideology) as Shias are doing in the case of self-immolation.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MazloomYarMasud View Post
                      Do fellow Members here think that such acts of self harm and cruelty are acceptable in this modern day and age?

                      Do you think it is not backward of Shia's to be whipping themselves with sharp blades in public in a Modern developed western country?

                      Who agrees with me that this should be banned and condem by Medical professionals as Self Harm and lunacy.
                      whats your obsession with "modern developed western countries"?

                      how many millions of people die there because of drugs, fatty foods, alcohol, and cigarettes? hows that for self harm?

                      i dont think anyone has ever died from whipping themselves.

                      does your stupidity have no limits?
                      There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

                      Sayyid Qutb

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        backwards matam has been declared haraam by the ayatollahs... anyone who engages in it is ignorent
                        Frater aliquis in fide nec fratrem humanitatis


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