Atheism and Racism

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

LZ getting thanked and me not getting thanked is argumentum ad populum..

faye..

just so you know

Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

^ Eh? How's the relevant to anything?

We're still waiting for you to start defending the claims made in the blog you posted. We're starting with claim #1:


Atheists are just terrible people, not on average, but as a whole.

^ Prove it by taking the godless philanthropist Bill Gates and Asa Philip Randolph, the atheist American civil-rights movement and the American labor movement member as examples. The article failed to prove it all atheists are horrible people despite claiming that. But you should now prove it with sufficient and satisfactory evidence.

If you can do that, we can move to the other claims in the article that need proving and clarification.

[JAMALUDEEN]

again, this fella LZ does not bother reading and understanding the whole article, and how the author reaches to the conclusion that

atheism breeds racism.

The author provides sane arguments, which this fella ignores and tries to troll away the discussion towards something that is irrelevant to the article.

[al-arab]

^ Eh? How's the relevant to anything?

We're still waiting for you to start defending the claims made in the blog you posted. We're starting with claim #1:


Atheists are just terrible people, not on average, but as a whole.

^ Prove it by taking the godless philanthropist Bill Gates and Asa Philip Randolph, the atheist American civil-rights movement and the American labor movement member as examples. The article failed to prove it all atheists are horrible people despite claiming that. But you should now prove it with sufficient and satisfactory evidence.

If you can do that, we can move to the other claims in the article that need proving and clarification.

Was the American civil rights movement atheist?

Where have you heard that? 97 percent of all Americans are Christians either by faith or by cultural background. And the civil rights movement was dominated by Blacks from the South who happens to be Christians.

Bill Gates is a cultural Christian whether he now claims he is an atheist or not. He has been influenced by Christianity all his life since he has lived in a country that is based on Christian morals to a large extent.

Whether all atheist are evil (this claim is of course outrageous) or not does not change the fact that the majority or large parts of atheists happen to be very egoistic and often undermine the fundaments of a society that in most cases is based on religion be it Christianity or Islam. Therefore religious people, rightly see them as a threat for the role of religion in society and I cannot blame them. And I cannot blame them because religion equals culture and nobody likes to be dictated from an little minority that for some reasons have chosen to denounce their herritage and ancestors reliigon based on myths that never will be proven scientifically (Whether God exist or not)

Therefore atheism will be doomed as long as religion and culture plays a important part for human beings. And I don't see the reason for that changing. After all it is 150 years ago that this Darwin claimed we were descendants from apes (what a hideous and untrue claim) and people did the only rightful think and renounced such nonsense.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

again, this fella LZ does not bother reading and understanding the whole article, and how the author reaches to the conclusion that

atheism breeds racism.

The author provides sane arguments, which this fella ignores and tries to troll away the discussion towards something that is irrelevant to the article.

Cite two examples of "sane arguments" from that blog please and then we can start discussing them.

@al-arab, I have some stuff to do right now (Juma prayers!) but we'll discuss this further when I'm back home..

[Soldat_Amir]

Jamal

You state Atheistism breeds racism but can you enlighten us on the conflict in darfur whereby Muslim Arabs are slaughtering Black Muslims, enslaving them and massacing their villages.

[abassinafghan]

soldat amir , in dafur negros killing other negros , has got nothing to do with islam , the so called arab militias are as black as their victims , its about fertile soil and water . nomads against settlers

there have been now unrest in southsudan , because of the same reason , tribes are killing each other over resources . not because of religion .

however it will protrayed in the media as arabs against poor black people , not mentioning that both are muslims .


so soldat amir , dont fall for the trap , be honest !!! because if you are not you are not better than the ones you call liars , because you end up a liar your self .

[Soldat_Amir]

soldat amir , in dafur negros killing other negros , has got nothing to do with islam , the so called arab militias are as black as their victims , its about fertile soil and water . nomads against settlers

there have been now unrest in southsudan , because of the same reason , tribes are killing each other over resources . not because of religion .

however it will protrayed in the media as arabs against poor black people , not mentioning that both are muslims .


so soldat amir , dont fall for the trap , be honest !!! because if you are not you are not better than the ones you call liars , because you end up a liar your self .

Sorry to break the ice Wrora, but please read upon this conflict in Darfur.

Those Arabs enslave Black people in the name of their religion and justify it with accordance to their "own" view of Sharia which they say permits Slavery.

The Arabs are killing these people because they are Black Africans.

Please do read upon this conflict for a better understanding.

Plus what about the "Mawalis" under the Khalifate, how did they treat them?

I am not saying its Islamic to be racist but I am giving examples of Jamals own followers who do acts of blatant racism.

Nothing to do with other Muslims who are peace loving people.

[al-arab]

Sorry to break the ice Wrora, but please read upon this conflict in Darfur.

Those Arabs enslave Black people in the name of their religion and justify it with accordance to their "own" view of Sharia which they say permits Slavery.

The Arabs are killing these people because they are Black Africans.

Please do read upon this conflict for a better understanding.

Plus what about the "Mawalis" under the Khalifate, how did they treat them?

I am not saying its Islamic to be racist but I am giving examples of Jamals own followers who do acts of blatant racism.

Nothing to do with other Muslims who are peace loving people.

What is happening in Darfur is a scandal and saddens me deeply but those Sudanese are not Arabs. They just happen to speak Arabic and are Muslims. They are just as black as the people from Darfur (although slightly) lighter.

A simple google search would confirm that or an visit to Khartoum.

But as always you have an Arabphobia so of course you will invent lies.

Levanaye;

Thank you, look forward to that. And will try to answer as best as I can. Also great to see that you have performed the salat al-gum'ah prayer. That must mean that you are finding the right patch.

[tor_khan]

soldat amir , in dafur negros killing other negros , has got nothing to do with islam , the so called arab militias are as black as their victims , its about fertile soil and water . nomads against settlers

there have been now unrest in southsudan , because of the same reason , tribes are killing each other over resources . not because of religion .

however it will protrayed in the media as arabs against poor black people , not mentioning that both are muslims .


so soldat amir , dont fall for the trap , be honest !!! because if you are not you are not better than the ones you call liars , because you end up a liar your self .

Read over bold type.

Agreed the media often simplifies things, but if you read it as Muslims are killing other Muslims over resources, does that make it a "lesser" crime than if it were Arabs killing blacks??

[tor_khan]

What is happening in Darfur is a scandal and saddens me deeply but those Sudanese are not Arabs.

If the Sudanese are descendants of Arabs intermarrying with Africans, do they stop being Arab because they are considered 'black'?

[Ghundal]

The Sudan issue is a conflict being waged by Arabs against non-Arabs. Maybe not a conflict since it was actually genocide.
It was predicated on race. It has nothing to do with Islam.

[al-arab]

If the Sudanese are descendants of Arabs intermarrying with Africans, do they stop being Arab because they are considered 'black'?

A lot of them are not Arabs in terms of ancestry. Those who are, are lighter just like Pashtuns are lighter than Punjabis to make an example. I was just proving Soldat-Communists propaganda and Arabphobia wrong.

One just need to visit Khartoum and Port Sudan to see that the Darfur population and large parts (90 percent) of the Sudanese population are as blacks as those in Darfur.

They speak Arabic yes, they are Muslims, yes, they have some Arab ancestry, yes, but would I categorize them as Arabs? Depends on the definition.

And the Janjaweed militias look like thise Sudanese people:





Would you, yourself categorize them as Arabs even though they could have Arab ancestry from the 12th century?

Culturally the Sudanese (excluding South Sudan) are Arabs because they speak the language but looking at the genetics they are more local Africans (Nubians) than Arabs which also is seen by their DNA.

A Janjaweed militia man:





Yes, Soldat-Communist you are right, they are Arabs, just look at them! (sarcasm)

[Ghundal]

If the Sudanese are descendants of Arabs intermarrying with Africans, do they stop being Arab because they are considered 'black'?

I have had debates with Arabs about Sudan, and they unfortunately were defending Sudanese Arab against the non-Arabs. Crimes have been widely documented.

Arabs think along tribal grounds I think. In Saudi Arabia, for example many Saudis are physically African due to marriage, and are patrilineally Arab.

The huge differences in appearances of Arabs is probably due to the fact that they absorbed people. I don't think it follows Western constructs of race,

In regards to Sudan, the OIL factor was major in splitting the country. Most of the oil is now in the Christian South, and ethnic differences have been exploited by oil companies on top of religious ones

[al-arab]

Al-Arab, I have seen Egyptian, Iraqi and Saudi Arabs who are physically African, or have curly hair. I have also seen many Syrians and Lebanese who have curly hair so I think there is no real definition for Arabs aside from tribal.

Race is a western construct

Yes, there are modern genetics today. And according to those the Sudanese Arabs have a lot more African blood than any other Arabs which is logical and also can be seen when you visit the country and see how they look. I posted some pictures already.

Curly hair is normal for Arabs so I don't know what you are trying to say by that. The fact is that you don't see Arabs that look like Sudanese Arabs in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Lebanon etc. unless they are of African origin.

We Arabs look very similar because we share similar genes. A man from Oman could live in Morocco (15.000 kilometers away) and still look like local Moroccons.

Sudanese Arabs would have a harder time with that virtually everywhere because they have a lot of black African origin.

And there is nothing wrong with having African origin, after all we all orginate from Africa (supposedly) I am just saying that those Janjaweed militas who kill civilians in Darfur are not Arabs by genetics. Only by language which can be seen by their appearance because they are just as much Black African as the Darfur population.

It would be like saying that Sri Lankan people are the same as Pashtuns.

Maybe the Arabs who have discussed Sudan with have the same opinion as me, that those who commit the attrocities are just as Black as those people they target from Darfur because of race. Which is the tragicomical thing.

I tell you this now. The only "real" Arabs from Sudan are those Beduins who came from Hijaz and Najd and have intermarried with each other. They share most genes with Arabs from Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Yemen etc.

But well, because the Northern Sudanese speak Arabic and because some of them have distant Arabic ancestry they will be categorized as Arabs in the Western world, DESPITE having much more Black African ancestry.

This is what makes this conflict in Darfur so absurd.

[al-arab]

"In the big context, it is “the African” that dominates. It’s very difficult finding many pure Arab tribes like the Rashaida in Sudan. They’re minorities. The majority are either African or Afro-Arab. Hence, ethnically speaking and in the big context we Sudanese are mainly African and not Arab. That’s also true for most Northern Sudanese. “The African” still dominates."

" The Rashaida are the most recent Arab tribe to make into Sudan. They crossed the Red Sea from the Arabian Peninsula about 150 years ago and made it to the north eastern side of the country. Since they arrived recently, they haven’t intermarried with locals. It’s a known fact that a Rashaida father will almost never allow his daughter (or son) to marry outside of the tribe (the same is quite true for other tribes). As such, the Rashaida have remained purely Arab."

This is an blog of an Northern Sudanese. He concludes that ethincally Sudanese are a lot more African but culturally they are more Arabic, those who are Muslim at least (excluding the south).

He prefers to call himself Afro-Arabic which makes sense.

He wrote an blog about the subject:

http://www.sudanesethinker.com/2007/...ab-or-african/

This also makes it even more sad, the Darfur conflict.

First of all it is Muslims fighting Muslims which never is good. But the most depresive and sad thing is that it is mostly an ethnic conflict despite the two parts being very similar (if not exact the same) in appearance. This just shows what denying what you are can make to you.

This reminds me of some Arabs I know in the West that want to appear Western and become racist towards Arabs and view our culture as inferior. This should never happen much like the fighting between Darfur Sudanese and Northern Sudanese because they are brothers.

But mostly it is an conflict about ressources and land. The propaganda machine from both parts try to make it to an ethnic conflict. And the Western media play along.

What is certain is that those attrocities must be stopped. The people suffer the most.