something to consider as you approach 25th dec

[torkham]

here in the UAE there are plenty of westerners and this time of the year they will say 'merry christmas' to you.

astonishingly some muslims, especially those raised in the west, will be greeting others similarly! even more astonishingly a few will decorate a tree with lights and place gifts under it, others will be going to related dinners.

here is a video that might help you in such predicament. it is in urdu but i am sure many of you will understand it. watch from 6min50

ChristMas Or KufarMas By Dr. Zakir Naik - YouTube

[graveyardofempires]

well from where i can see and my point of view i can tell that i havent encountered such behavior among Afghans here,and atleast not among pashtuns.

since i live here i do hear people saying merry christmis to me sometimes at work(for example),personally i dont think its that of a big deal if i say it back to them since this has nothing exactly to do with christianity and i dont find it to be religious holiday.

about having a tree etc is way too far,that means you take part in a pagan practice.

so who are those who you are talking about who do these things in UAE apart from the foreigners such as americans?

[torkham]

jordanians, egyptians, lebanese, iranian (and i am not refering to christian ones), some of these people stick a tree so their kids can join in the fun they see on tv. they see no harm, it is fun, a celebration, some argue it is about issa (a.s.) a mutual prophet, so it is ok!

i am refering to these people (a minority) who are so impressed with the western mores, are not seeing the wood from the tree, that is the idea behind this celebration, it is a celebration for the christians, and it is a celebration for those who dont believe in christianity yet follow easter and christmas socially. what place is there in this for a muslim? (i think same applies to our farsiwan brothers with their haft-seen stuff).

if i say merry christmas to my colleague, i am engaging his merriness. if my non-muslim colleague says 'salam' to me, he is of course being social, friendly, observing culture, but he is not acknowledging islam, he is only comitting to the greeting of peace, which is agreed amongst both of us, however, christmas, as a birth day of the christ (and the concept of naming issa (a.s.) 'the christ', a reference to crucifixion) is not shared by me. so why should i indulge in this greeting?

i am of the opinion, it is social pressure that obliges muslims to say merry christmas. personally, i respond by 'have a good holiday' followed by 'burn in hell for the trinity and na-auzobillah, son of god', although i leave that hushed

it might be an issue of semantics, linguisitcs or even politeness, but in my faith islam, even the slightest thought (niya) is greater than action, so i check my niya.

[IamDZJ]

happy holidays

[Karachi]

in the UAE hotel they the biggest christmas tree in the world

UAE is pretty much westernized in every sense, some of the highschools there feel like Canadian highschools, espeically with the amount of westerners, also if you walk in a mall in the dubai, especially malls like (Mall of the Emirates) you feel like you are some where in Europe or North America.

[tor_khan]

I don't do Christmas.

I hate the way commercialism tries to shove it down your throat.

[Janana]

I don't do Christmas.

I hate the way commercialism tries to shove it down your throat.

Me too, I absolutely loathe going into shopping malls at this time since they're so packed and over-the-top with decorations and bad music.

[faye]

i gave up all those superficial/commercial celebrations, in my teens but i just say, 'have a nice tree festival', to xmas.

[badmash_khel]

I agree about the commercialization of Christmas. But it makes sense because most westerners are atheists or at least agnostics at heart. The birth or death or the teachings of jesus have so significant meaning in their lives.

But I am afraid the same thing will happen to muslim festivals of Eid if we are not careful. Just like some people over eat in Ramaddan once they break their fast. Thats missing the whole point of fasting. Westerner are not the only one who have lost the sense of meaning behind festivals and rituals, its a common human trait. Many of us muslims don't pray the whole year but are the first in line for Eid prayers.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I don't do Christmas.

I hate the way commercialism tries to shove it down your throat.

Crazy thing is, if you read up on how these customs came into being, take for example Halloween, Valentines Day, or Christmas, or even the diamond engagement ring... Annivesary timed gifts

These were all commercial enterprises. Just examine the changes in Santa Clause and his function in the last 150 years and you'll see a very interesting story.

I dont know whether its impressive or not that various industrial groups have successfully manufactured a culture.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I don't do Christmas.

I hate the way commercialism tries to shove it down your throat.

http://www.pashtunforums.com/politic...al-past-23618/

Actually Tor Khan you should read this Afghan professor's well referenced essay where he directly quotes from Tarikh e Ahmad Shah to show that Elpinstone and other Westerners also were responsible for the current methodology and implementation style of the Afghan loya jirga as a custom as well.

We all as Pashtuns know that jirgas go on and anyone that has visited their ancestoral village has probably sat in on one. But at the local level in day to day affairs even as serious as working out blood feuds, they are not so dramatic as currently depicted. It was not even as it was in Karzai's last faux jirga. Everyone can have the chance to speak and its not merely the "King" talking down to everyone from a pulpit.

Amanullah Shah and other kings took Elpinstone's narrative of the original Kandahar jirga, where he incorporated elements that did not occur, and they stuck them in. For instance, the idea that Shiite Qizilbashis were sitting there for decision making alongside Pashtun tribal elders who had just fought them a decade or two before when Mir Wais was against them is sort of foolish.

That is not to say the Loya Jirga did not occur, its just to say that the way it is depicted in terms of it being the final say in all Afghan affairs is nonsensical and a contrived history.

So just as this Christmas holiday as it is celebrated today has a kernal of historicity in it.... we should alway search out the kernals of historicity as opposed to what it is enshrouded in.

Jon Stewart Mocks the War on Christmas Fox News Video Fox News - YouTube

^ Jon Stewart's discussion of the war on Christmas (scroll past the Bill O Riley parts).

So its interesting, because people get on the Taliban, but America's founding Pilgrims, as per the Jon Stewart reference banned Christmas:

"In 1659, the ban became official. The General Court banned the celebration of Christmas and other such holidays at the same time it banned gambling and other lawless behavior, grouping all such behaviors together. The court placed a fine of five shillings on anyone caught feasting or celebrating the holiday in another manner."

Actual quote from the Pilgrim "Mullah" that banned the celebration:

"The generality of Christmas-keepers observe that festival after such a manner as is highly dishonourable to the name of Christ. How few are there comparatively that spend those holidays (as they are called) after an holy manner. But they are consumed in Compotations, in Interludes, in playing at Cards, in Revellings, in excess of Wine, in mad Mirth ..."

-Mullah Mather 1687

See what happens when countries are left alone without successive invasions to develop their own center of balance?

[badmash_khel]

"The generality of Christmas-keepers observe that festival after such a manner as is highly dishonourable to the name of Christ. How few are there comparatively that spend those holidays (as they are called) after an holy manner. But they are consumed in Compotations, in Interludes, in playing at Cards, in Revellings, in excess of Wine, in mad Mirth ..."

-Mullah Mather 1687

What the h3ll? Even Americans had Mullahs back in the day?

[tor_khan]

Crazy thing is, if you read up on how these customs came into being, take for example Halloween, Valentines Day, or Christmas, or even the diamond engagement ring... Annivesary timed gifts

These were all commercial enterprises. Just examine the changes in Santa Clause and his function in the last 150 years and you'll see a very interesting story.

I dont know whether its impressive or not that various industrial groups have successfully manufactured a culture.

The last sentence so rings true.

In memory of her mother, Anna Jarvis successfully had Mother's Day recognised as an official US calendar celebration in 1914. By the 1920s, sensing the exploitation by the greetings card industry etc. she turned against the event and spent the rest of her life campaigning for the end Mother's Day. Such is the irony and watching the video on Christmas just reaffirms what I think.

I don't want to start taking apart piece by piece the inaccuracy of the way the Nativity has been relayed over the centuries (shepherds/lambs are more springtime for instance than winter), however, what niggles me is why those who are content with a version of seasonal event that includes flying reindeer and fat man in a red suit, are happy to call it 'Christ' mass.

[کیش]

Happy festivus.

[Manzareh]

Superficial or no superficial..Atleast there more united than Muslims are on Eid.