Atheists Vs Muslims

[faye]

yes, i did say 'classify' themselves. but i have no proof that it is just for political gain.
lol, the 'i am here to learn about you' and then his subsequent comments, is rather amusing. i like this one- from ozmosis.."the only believe i try to convince you about is the fact that i have the right to the belief i have"...definitely chuckle worthy, lol.

[Afghanistan2010]

wasn't the 'big bang' supernatural enough for you atheists? what other tricks would you like god to perform for you? lol

how can one believe that everything "just" happens....nothing just happens without a cause ...they have no sense in their life ...i again repeat what a philosopher said : isn't suicide not better than meaningless life.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

The third message they send is:
Osama attacked us because Britney Spears can dance on tables! He hates our way of life! The US did not to instigate him ever.... he's like the bad guy in a harry potter movie.

^ Lavanay Zalmay tends to use this last tactic rather often and it really is ahistorical nonsense. Mr Bin Ladin was to the Arab world what Che Geuvara's insurgency was to Latin America.

George Bush and the members of his neocon White House, and not Levanaye Zalmaye, want the world to believe that Osama bin Laden attacked America because he couldn't tolerate the American way of life and the American notion of liberty. And where have I ever mentioned that the US' foreign policy has been a force of good in the world? Why does everyone attack me with straw man arguments? I am a man of flesh, blood and hair, just like you.

Mr Bin Ladin was to the Arab world what Che Geuvara's insurgency was to Latin America

I don't think it's fair to make such statements and then blame me for "ahistorical nonsense".


In any case, the rationalist community here has generally never initiated any mud-slinging contest. It's actually the other way around.

What normally happens is that a certain user who posts here and also on other more religious forums ends up importing his buddies here. This recent phase wasn't the first time someone had been called from another message-board because he was told that there are secularists here on Pashtuns Forums. And then he'd come in with all guns blazing, "there are rumors on the internets that there are secularists on Pashtun Forums! Come out and face me but remember, I get offended easily so please go easy on me".

For the most part, I personally try not to offend anyone's religious or other sensitivities by using aggressive or abusive language or by making provocative comments. However, a lot of users here are very young and when their intellect and logic fail them in a debate, they respond with abusive language. And most of these people claim to be religious.

In any case, I've never believed in "atheists are dumb hehe" and "Muslims R teh terr0rist lulz" threads. Nothing comes out of such "discussions" anyway.

[ozymandias]

wasn't the 'big bang' supernatural enough for you atheists?

The big bang would not have been supernatural.

what other tricks would you like god to perform for you? lol

Anything supernatural. and observable, really.

[ozymandias]

We Muslims believe in big bang.

this guy ozymendis is here thinking he can somehow make us turn away from Islam.

Isn't lying considered sin? I have corrected you on this repeatedly.

i personally think he has abused our hospitality and is being a typical dishonest atheist.

Funny you accuse me of being dishonest, after you just lied about why I am here.

i mean how can atheists tell the truth when in their belief system truth is irrelevant and there is no such thing as being truthful.

More lies. I would consider it simple ignorance, from most people, but you and I have had enough discussions for you to realize how untrue that statement was.

[ozymandias]

i doubt it GOE. he doesn't care either way, most probably, whether you stay with islam or not.

True.

he is here to showoff what he believes is his superior, logic based intelligence,

False.

he probabably has signs up at uni and emailed all his buddies, to come on pf and watch him befuddle all the neandrrthals, that still believe in a god.

False. I was actually invited here.

i have a fantasy that in years to come, the theory of evolution will be in the books, entitled, 'myths', lol.

Quite the fantasy.

but GOE, painting all atheists with the same brush is not valid either. how many do you know?
the wars that are waged against the islamic countries are done by people who classify themselves as, mostly, christian. george bush, john howard, that english galah, forget it's name. not atheists. the designers of the 'surges' in fallujah and afghanistan, from what i have gleaned from research, are the kagans, frederick is jewish and his war obsessed wife is/was a christian. the powerful think tanks in america, tend to have mostly christians and jews as their members.

Thank you for noting that.

[ozymandias]

I agree with you ,i shouldnt put all atheists in the same basket as this guy.
ive spoken to a number of atheists and some of them have this typical arrogant attitude while others engage in friendly discussions.

I actually doubt this very much. Either this is a lie, or you are deliberately lying about what atheists believe. You consistently make ignorant, silly claims about what atheists believe -- so either you are lying about being exposed to them, or are lying about what you claim to think they believe.

i dont care either if he stays atheist or not but he is being dishonest because he said he was here to learn about us and our religion while in fact all he does is somehow preach and defend his own belief instead of hearing us out.

I get it now. The only way to be 'honest' in your eyes is to accept the claims of the religious with no refutation.

I don't see it as dishonest to listen to the claims many people make, and then inform them of why their claims are not convincing.

I think ozymedis shoudl start to be a little more honest so we can have a futile discussion.

And I think you should be a little more honest, and open minded, and understand that not everyone has to agree with your claims in order for them to be honest.

second part : i doubt those people are christians as ive spoken to many christians and they are such nice people and they respect muslim.
yes these individuals you mentioned do use the christian card to rally the support of some christians especially the one's who are ignorant about muslims and Islam.

You may wish to look up the No True Scotsman fallacy.

[ozymandias]

how can one believe that everything "just" happens....nothing just happens without a cause ...they have no sense in their life ...i again repeat what a philosopher said : isn't suicide not better than meaningless life.

But you believe exactly that -- you believe in a god without a cause. You believe your god always existed, and was not created by anything. Belief in the universe just existing is far less complicated than belief in a supernatural super-power that has the ability to create that universe.

[Afghanistan2010]

But you believe exactly that -- you believe in a god without a cause. You believe your god always existed, and was not created by anything. Belief in the universe just existing is far less complicated than belief in a supernatural super-power that has the ability to create that universe.

So you claim that a cell formed it self just,because it wanted to create itself...selfcreation lol

My son,your birth and my birth isn't this supernatural enough ?

Are the signs not clear enough,the atmosphere ( there is no planet in our universe that has a similar one) the magnatific fields which protects our ozones,the perfect standards aren't these enough signs ?

the change of day and night which is only such observable on earth and not at any other planet like on our earth,the destructions of one creation ( Dinosaurs) and the creation of another one ( human and animals and everything else you don't see but are there),the coming of metals and other needed things from universe ,did they come just for nothing ? or were they directed by some one `?

how can you claim to be knowledgeable or a thinker when you have blocked your brain with philosophies,why you follow a dogma and refuse other opinions ?

[R3SISTANC3]

But you believe exactly that -- you believe in a god without a cause. You believe your god always existed, and was not created by anything. Belief in the universe just existing is far less complicated than belief in a supernatural super-power that has the ability to create that universe.

Yet that is not true. The universe did not always exist. We know for a fact that it came into existence and can trace its birth to the very nano-second. The always existing universe don't make sense because of the limitations imposed by space and time. An always existing universe would mean an infinite universe nullifying the purpose of time but we do know time exist that is how we can measure the age of the universe.

[ozymandias]

So you claim that a cell formed it self just,because it wanted to create itself...selfcreation lol

Nope. Spontaneous generation was discounted as a valid scientific theory long ago.

My son,your birth and my birth isn't this supernatural enough ?

It has to first have a supernatural component to be 'supernatural enough'. There is nothing supernatural about birth.

Are the signs not clear enough,the atmosphere ( there is no planet in our universe that has a similar one) the magnatific fields which protects our ozones,the perfect standards aren't these enough signs ?

Of course not. Why would they be? They are all products of natural laws.

the change of day and night which is only such observable on earth and not at any other planet like on our earth,

Um.... Each and every planet in our solar system experiences day/night cycles.

the destructions of one creation ( Dinosaurs) and the creation of another one ( human and animals and everything else you don't see but are there),

Once again, fully explained with natural laws -- no need for magic.

the coming of metals and other needed things from universe ,did they come just for nothing ? or were they directed by some one `?

Once again, fully explained with natural laws -- no need for magic.

how can you claim to be knowledgeable or a thinker when you have blocked your brain with philosophies,

I have not 'blocked my brain' -- I am, as are all scientists, open to any new theory that fits the known evidence.

why you follow a dogma and refuse other opinions ?

dog·ma/ˈdôgmə/

Noun:A principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true: "the Christian dogma of the Trinity".
According to the definition of 'dogma', I follow no dogma. I accept nothing as incontrovertibly true. That's what science *is* -- the willingness to accept the explanation that fits all known evidence. I only refuse other opinions that are not based on facts, evidence, or reality. Any new theory has to explain all the evidence better than the current theories. Religion does not do that -- in fact, it requires belief in a dogma that goes contrary to the evidence.

[graveyardofempires]

Isn't lying considered sin? I have corrected you on this repeatedly.
how am i lying?
you are out to prove to us and have us agreed with your belief.

btw do you believe in something called sin?


Funny you accuse me of being dishonest, after you just lied about why I am here.
so tell us why you are here.
because you said you were here to know about pashtuns and islam.
than you act as if you are on a crusade to prove to us Pashtuns that atheism is the truth.


More lies. I would consider it simple ignorance, from most people, but you and I have had enough discussions for you to realize how untrue that statement was.

so you are telling me the notion of truth is relative in your belief system?

[faye]

The big bang would not have been supernatural

Anything supernatural. and observable, really.

isn't the big bang/expansion still occouring?
if something from nothing is not supernatural, then what is?
what would you consider to be 'supernatural'?

[Soldat_Amir]

Life is too short for fighting

watch the video below and relax

[ozymandias]

Originally Posted by ozymandias

how am i lying?
you are out to prove to us and have us agreed with your belief.

And I have corrected this claim from you repeatedly. You know full well why I am here, and insist on spreading false information. That is lying.

btw do you believe in something called sin?

I do not -- but I understand that sinning is against the religion that you claim to follow. How do you reconcile deliberately spreading false information with your religion?

so tell us why you are here.

I have, repeatedly. It would surprise me if you had not seen my answer already.

because you said you were here to know about pashtuns and islam.

Ah. You have seen it, and were just lying about it.

than you act as if you are on a crusade to prove to us Pashtuns that atheism is the truth.

Evidence, please? Just because I don't except your religion as true with no evidence does not mean I am on a crusade to prove atheism is the truth.

so you are telling me the notion of truth is relative in your belief system?

No, I am not. I am telling you that contrary to your claim "i mean how can atheists tell the truth when in their belief system truth is irrelevant and there is no such thing as being truthful", truth, in the atheist 'belief system' not only exists, but is very important -- and it is downright silly to claim there is no such thing as being truthful.

Truth, and finding the truth, about reality is why many atheists are atheists. There are many things that are true, and can be shown as such. Gravity exists. Water exists. These are true things.

How can you be so confused as to what atheists believe? I honestly don't think you are confused, but are rather making deliberate false claims about atheism in an attempt to attack it.