Atheists Vs Muslims

[کیش]

Whats the purpose of life for Atheists?


as a business CEO, I would love everyone to be an Atheist. So I could sell my materialistic goods for a premium. What would Atheist care? Their life has no meaning.

You search for Knowledge, you do that; but buy my products.

[faye]

Athiests most of the time are more moralistic than believers. They don't discriminate on the basis of religious affiliation, race, ethnicity, gender, etc. They value reason, knowledge, inquisitiveness, and all other higher values and ideals. Believers, e.g., extremist Muslims self-deludingly consider themselves to be God's chosen people that others should emulate and obey. This almost in all cases reduces to sectarian animosity and hatred.

sorry, but i find this statement about athiests this and atheists that, to be ridiculous. allgroups of people with all different beliefs,that i have observed and learned about, appear to have some who are well behaved and some who are bad behaved. personally, i have very rarely met people who call themselves atheist, in my 63 years of living. a true free person, would reject a tag.
so i am curious as to how you can make these "positive' statements about ALL atheists and others make 'negative' assessments of ALL atheists.
from what i have seen on this forum, the 'atheists' tend to be very arrogant/egotistical and convinced and trying to convince that only they know the truth, which is what they tend to be annoyed at others for doind/being.

[Alchemist]

ozymandias,
If you had read my post in it's entirety you would have noticed that it was addressed to those who, at least think they, have a stake in the situation of Pashtuns in Afghanistan and Pakistan. You were excluded and not even considered for the truce proposal so your objection is not even note worthy.

I am very disappointed in Soldat aka Mehsud aka mi6.
Initially you played the martyr, then you played the victim, and now you think you ought to feel disrespected because this half witted white atheist says so?

So what if you don't believe in the afterlife?
I do.
That is what having a truce means. That we agree to disagree. If you have a problem with my belief in the Afterlife and you want to challenge my belief and claim your own beliefs to be driven from correct rational then it is obvious you don't want a truce. You feel that you have the advantage in this argument?

I've debated with ozy before. He is a mental case. Even when he is disproved, cornered with his ignorance bared he still projects his faults, his irrationality back at his opponents. Which is why I think it is futile to debate with such mental cases. Even though they lack knowledge, they have pretence of it...of science. A subject he barely has a high school equivalent grasp of. Which is quite pathetic when even faye can challenge him on his own rationality.

I mean...in all honesty...I have read some of the most pathetic arguments on this thread in favour of atheism. And I didn't even ask for why you are an atheist. I couldn't even care less for it. Some muslims make some ridiculous arguments too...and I guess that is why the atheists feel they are fighting the "good fight"...winning. And this back and forth is just ridiculous all around. If I were to even engage with you on such philosophical questions, you wouldn't even go far enough to the deep ends where you can catch me struggling. And struggle we all do. I don't fiend omnipotence (like some do). If these are the pathetic and ridiculous excuses that you have for your constant nagging then you have my pity. I am not even amused or curious to debate you. Which is why I called a truce...If I were to get even a third of the intensity of suspense you felt from clicking on this thread to read what I have said then I wouldn't have called for this truce. Maybe that is why you are offended ozymandias. Perhaps you felt your self patronized by me...again. Sorry chap. I just don't find you interesting. Your four note tune has bored me. Unless you have something of significance to say, you can take your rutted diatribe downtown right next to the other loonies holding board signs.

So be it ..no truce.

Enjoy the winter solstice everyone...we'll have to end this nonsense after

[faye]

EVEN i, ozmosis

[Afghanistan2010]

There aren't mathematical proofs that God exists .

We have to believe that God exists, and I believe it.

Everything that you see is a proof of God,but these socalled rebelious ones thinking of themselves some kind of intelligent or knowledgeable are self-deluding.

Even yourself,you are a proof of the God you don't believe in.

But to your astonishmend , i do not care on you and because God does not care on you,

he said in the noblest of the books Quran al Kareem :



au revoir mes cheries


here you go by a friend ...

[ozymandias]

Whats the purpose of life for Atheists?


as a business CEO, I would love everyone to be an Atheist. So I could sell my materialistic goods for a premium. What would Atheist care? Their life has no meaning.

You search for Knowledge, you do that; but buy my products.

My life has the meaning I give it. I know of no atheist whose life lacks meaning. Once again, you are making a blanket statement about people you don't even care to try and understand.

[ozymandias]

ozymandias,
If you had read my post in it's entirety you would have noticed that it was addressed to those who, at least think they, have a stake in the situation of Pashtuns in Afghanistan and Pakistan. You were excluded and not even considered for the truce proposal so your objection is not even note worthy.

I am very disappointed in Soldat aka Mehsud aka mi6.
Initially you played the martyr, then you played the victim, and now you think you ought to feel disrespected because this half witted white atheist says so?

So what if you don't believe in the afterlife?
I do.
That is what having a truce means. That we agree to disagree. If you have a problem with my belief in the Afterlife and you want to challenge my belief and claim your own beliefs to be driven from correct rational then it is obvious you don't want a truce. You feel that you have the advantage in this argument?

Clearly.

I've debated with ozy before. He is a mental case. Even when he is disproved,

Pure speculation. You need to first disprove me before you can see how I will act once that has happened.

cornered with his ignorance bared he still projects his faults, his irrationality back at his opponents.

Funny how you write a description of your own behavior, and then lie, and state it was *me*....

Which is why I think it is futile to debate with such mental cases. Even though they lack knowledge, they have pretence of it...of science. A subject he barely has a high school equivalent grasp of. Which is quite pathetic when even faye can challenge him on his own rationality.

Once again, you are describing your own failed understanding. I have repeatedly shown that I have a much more firm grasp on many scientific topics than you do.

I mean...in all honesty...I have read some of the most pathetic arguments on this thread in favour of atheism. And I didn't even ask for why you are an atheist. I couldn't even care less for it. Some muslims make some ridiculous arguments too...and I guess that is why the atheists feel they are fighting the "good fight"...winning. And this back and forth is just ridiculous all around. If I were to even engage with you on such philosophical questions, you wouldn't even go far enough to the deep ends where you can catch me struggling.

No need to go to the 'deep ends', when your knowledge is too shallow even for the kiddie pool.

And struggle we all do. I don't fiend omnipotence (like some do). If these are the pathetic and ridiculous excuses that you have for your constant nagging then you have my pity. I am not even amused or curious to debate you. Which is why I called a truce...If I were to get even a third of the intensity of suspense you felt from clicking on this thread to read what I have said then I wouldn't have called for this truce. Maybe that is why you are offended ozymandias. Perhaps you felt your self patronized by me...again.

"Again" implies it has happened at least once. Don't worry, since you don't have the basic knowledge of science to even hold a discussion on the topic, I have never felt patronized by you. Quite the opposite - I try fairly hard not to patronize you, as you are still just learning, and I want to try and encourage that.

Sorry chap. I just don't find you interesting. Your four note tune has bored me. Unless you have something of significance to say, you can take your rutted diatribe downtown right next to the other loonies holding board signs.

So be it ..no truce.

Enjoy the winter solstice everyone...we'll have to end this nonsense after

Happy holidays!

[ozymandias]

Everything that you see is a proof of God,

Not at all. Nothing I see is proof of the supernatural, as everything that I can see is the result of natural laws.

but these socalled rebelious ones thinking of themselves some kind of intelligent or knowledgeable are self-deluding.

Who are the so called rebellious ones? What are they rebelling against? Ignorance?

Even yourself,you are a proof of the God you don't believe in.

How? How is that 'proof' of a god? It is in no way supernatural, nor needs anything supernatural to explain it.

au revoir mes cheries


here you go by a friend ...

Ah, I get it. You don't understand logic, so you decided to write laughable equations to prove your own lack of understanding?

Your premises are flawed. You presupposed that some being greater than infinity exists. If one does not exist, your entire equation is moot. You also presuppose god is greater than infinity, without defining what that means. Purely mathematically, that is nonsense, since 1 is not greater than infinity. In fact, in math, the only thing larger than infinity is a different category of infinity. So by your own premise, x IS less than infinity, because it is equally true to state infinity is less than infinity as it is to state infinity is greater than infinity. Furthermore, you make the mistake of assuming that to see a god would be to see the entirety of it. This does not even make sense. There are *many* things in our lives that we only see part of, either physically, or logically. I have only seen a fraction of this planet. I have only see a fraction of the building I am in now -- I have never seen the roof, the basement, or the spaces in between the studs of the walls. In fact, I have *never* seen more than a fraction of it at a single time -- but I have seen the building. To take it up a level, the universe is effectively infinite -- we cannot see the ends of it, and it is only getting larger by the minute, but we can still see it.

I'm not a religious person, but even I can see that seeing a facet of a god does not make it less than or equal to infinite.

So, once again, where is this mathematical proof you claimed to have? You have only a psuedomathematical proof, that does not take much to disprove.

[Afghanistan2010]

Not at all. Nothing I see is proof of the supernatural, as everything that I can see is the result of natural laws.

Hm, where does these natural laws came from /again you have no answer than just it were there,but let us go further,there are alot of habitable planets with some similar to the earth,scientists were asked if life could exists there or come up like on earth that a cell is formed and then multicellular organism is formed from it which was according to them not possible according to majority of scienctists,if life came on earth like you believe in Evolution why is it not possible on these planets that life will cometoo to existence while there is nothing.

Who are the so called rebellious ones? What are they rebelling against? Ignorance?

Atheists,i do agree that they use their brain to ask certain things,but they fail to recognize facts and reality.

How? How is that 'proof' of a god? It is in no way supernatural, nor needs anything supernatural to explain it.

Have you taught about at the symmetry of your body ?

Have you taught about the function of your body ?

Have you taught about that you can use your nose too smell and to breathe ?

Have you taught about that you can use your tongue to speak and to taste?
Have you taught about that you can use your eye to see ?
Have you taught about your ears which helps you to stand and walk straight and to listen with ?

Ah, I get it. You don't understand logic, so you decided to write laughable equations to prove your own lack of understanding?

Your premises are flawed. You presupposed that some being greater than infinity exists. If one does not exist, your entire equation is moot. You also presuppose god is greater than infinity, without defining what that means. Purely mathematically, that is nonsense, since 1 is not greater than infinity. In fact, in math, the only thing larger than infinity is a different category of infinity. So by your own premise, x IS less than infinity, because it is equally true to state infinity is less than infinity as it is to state infinity is greater than infinity. Furthermore, you make the mistake of assuming that to see a god would be to see the entirety of it. This does not even make sense. There are *many* things in our lives that we only see part of, either physically, or logically. I have only seen a fraction of this planet. I have only see a fraction of the building I am in now -- I have never seen the roof, the basement, or the spaces in between the studs of the walls. In fact, I have *never* seen more than a fraction of it at a single time -- but I have seen the building. To take it up a level, the universe is effectively infinite -- we cannot see the ends of it, and it is only getting larger by the minute, but we can still see it.

I'm not a religious person, but even I can see that seeing a facet of a god does not make it less than or equal to infinite.

So, once again, where is this mathematical proof you claimed to have? You have only a psuedomathematical proof, that does not take much to disprove

If you could see God you would not believe in him that he is God.

God is out of the space out of the time,time concerns us and the world,but nothing is above God and nothing below.

You would contradict his noble attributes,he does not resemble his creation,he has nothing in common with his creation.
Thus it means that God is unique in His personality and characteristics and there is no partner to Him. There is no parallel to Him nor is anybody or anything similar to Him.

[ozymandias]

Hm, where does these natural laws came from /again you have no answer than just it were there,but let us go further,there are alot of habitable planets with some similar to the earth,

Citation needed. Statistically they exist -- this does not mean we have found them -- let alone 'a lot'.

scientists were asked if life could exists there or come up like on earth that a cell is formed and then multicellular organism is formed from it which was according to them not possible according to majority of scienctists,

Again, citation needed. What scientists? Using what worlds to base this off of? Most scientists think that given time and an earth-like world life is inevitable.

if life came on earth like you believe in Evolution

Abiogenesis has nothing to do with evolution. You are confusing two very separate topics.

why is it not possible on these planets that life will cometoo to existence while there is nothing.

Because you made up this 'fact'.

Atheists,i do agree that they use their brain to ask certain things,but they fail to recognize facts and reality.

Like what?

Have you taught about at the symmetry of your body ?

Have you taught about the function of your body ?

Have you taught about that you can use your nose too smell and to breathe ?

Have you taught about that you can use your tongue to speak and to taste?
Have you taught about that you can use your eye to see ?
Have you taught about your ears which helps you to stand and walk straight and to listen with ?

I am not a teacher of biology, so most of these topics are not opportunities I often have to teach.

What about them, though? Evolution, and simple biology covers these topics very well. No need for the supernatural to explain them.

If you could see God you would not believe in him that he is God.

Admittedly, he would have to do something supernatural to convince me he is supernatural.

God is out of the space out of the time,time concerns us and the world,but nothing is above God and nothing below.

You would contradict his noble attributes,he does not resemble his creation,he has nothing in common with his creation.
Thus it means that God is unique in His personality and characteristics and there is no partner to Him. There is no parallel to Him nor is anybody or anything similar to Him.

I can say the same about unicorns -- does not make them real. You have yet to provide any evidence, other than your opinion of what a god would be like *if they existed*.

[faye]

wasn't the 'big bang' supernatural enough for you atheists? what other tricks would you like god to perform for you? lol

[graveyardofempires]

wasn't the 'big bang' supernatural enough for you atheists? what other tricks would you like god to perform for you? lol

We Muslims believe in big bang.

this guy ozymendis is here thinking he can somehow make us turn away from Islam.

i personally think he has abused our hospitality and is being a typical dishonest atheist.

i mean how can atheists tell the truth when in their belief system truth is irrelevant and there is no such thing as being truthful.

[al-arab]

We Muslims believe in big bang.

this guy ozymendis is here thinking he can somehow make us turn away from Islam.

i personally think he has abused our hospitality and is being a typical dishonest atheist.

i mean how can atheists tell the truth when in their belief system truth is irrelevant and there is no such thing as being truthful.

True words, brother.

Ozymandias has been disrespectful towards us Muslims since the beginning and he has praised the invadors of Iraq several times. People like him are only here to divide us and talk badly about us and give a bad picture of us. He is a lost case because of his atheism. He is too full of himself to be a servant of Almighty Allah. But on his death bed it will be too late and nothing will save him from his arrogance and ignorance.

[faye]

i doubt it GOE. he doesn't care either way, most probably, whether you stay with islam or not. he is here to showoff what he believes is his superior, logic based intelligence, he probabably has signs up at uni and emailed all his buddies, to come on pf and watch him befuddle all the neandrrthals, that still believe in a god. i have a fantasy that in years to come, the theory of evolution will be in the books, entitled, 'myths', lol.
but GOE, painting all atheists with the same brush is not valid either. how many do you know?
the wars that are waged against the islamic countries are done by people who classify themselves as, mostly, christian. george bush, john howard, that english galah, forget it's name. not atheists. the designers of the 'surges' in fallujah and afghanistan, from what i have gleaned from research, are the kagans, frederick is jewish and his war obsessed wife is/was a christian. the powerful think tanks in america, tend to have mostly christians and jews as their members.

[graveyardofempires]

i doubt it GOE. he doesn't care either way, most probably, whether you stay with islam or not. he is here to showoff what he believes is his superior, logic based intelligence, he probabably has signs up at uni and emailed all his buddies, to come on pf and watch him befuddle all the neandrrthals, that still believe in a god. i have a fantasy that in years to come, the theory of evolution will be in the books, entitled, 'myths', lol.
but GOE, painting all atheists with the same brush is not valid either. how many do you know?
the wars that are waged against the islamic countries are done by people who classify themselves as, mostly, christian. george bush, john howard, that english galah, forget it's name. not atheists. the designers of the 'surges' in fallujah and afghanistan, from what i have gleaned from research, are the kagans, frederick is jewish and his war obsessed wife is/was a christian. the powerful think tanks in america, tend to have mostly christians and jews as their members.

I agree with you ,i shouldnt put all atheists in the same basket as this guy.
ive spoken to a number of atheists and some of them have this typical arrogant attitude while others engage in friendly discussions.

i dont care either if he stays atheist or not but he is being dishonest because he said he was here to learn about us and our religion while in fact all he does is somehow preach and defend his own belief instead of hearing us out.I think ozymedis shoudl start to be a little more honest so we can have a futile discussion.

second part : i doubt those people are christians as ive spoken to many christians and they are such nice people and they respect muslim.
yes these individuals you mentioned do use the christian card to rally the support of some christians especially the one's who are ignorant about muslims and Islam.