Atheists Vs Muslims

[randolph85]

to have a truce would be to imply that muslims are on equal footing with atheists.

that is just false. where were these atheists during the 80s? where are they now? they sure as hell weren't around when mirwas took the fight to the persians, or when it was our religious duty to fight the british.

these people have no foundation in afghanistan and only have semblance of power there when they are backed up by foreigners that have hundreds of billions of dollars invested in them. as exemplified by the mustacio communists and now the run of the mill suits and ties.

[R3SISTANC3]

Take a look at this forum, though. There are people *here* that think being atheist (or non-Muslim) and not hiding that fact is an 'attack' on Islam. It's a slippery slope to have that in the definition. Why not just say that they have the right to do what they want in their lives, and leave it to your god to punish them, if he exists, and if he thinks they need to be punished?

Death for apostasy in a Muslim state makes perfect sense from a logical and rational POV. Let us put our subjective morality aside and realize this, an Islamic state is governed by sharia law, and those laws are there to protect the ideology (Islam) behind it. Open apostasy threatens that ideology therefore the state and its subjects. No nation whether secular or thestic would allow an open threat to be tolerated. Death for apostasy in Islam has nothing to do with the individual free will or choice but the security of the Muslim state.

[ozymandias]

I dont know who they are, but they need to get educated if they are saying that

Islam has absolutely no compulsion in religion. There were so many people during prophet's(pbuh) time that took a life time to become muslim or even died non muslim, did the prophet(pbuh) force them to become muslims? obviously no.

You can't force anyone to become anything.

I agree -- but there is a thread "Freedom of religion in Islam" or something similar, where multiple people defended murdering apostates.

[ozymandias]

to hell with these basterds
look how they are trashing our religion on a PASHTUNSforums,this speaks volumes and this gives us extremely bad reputation worlwide.
if people read these types of people's comments they will think bad about us as well.

brother alchemist is trying to bring the sfeer to normality but the atheists of PF just love their Islam bashing spree

I guess I am the exception to that claim? You know, because I am not Islam bashing....

so they just do that and continue to disrespect us collectively,its just disguting that their posts are still up and not deleted and they are not warned.

Here we go -- perfect example. Simply by being here I am 'disrespecting' you. Thanks for proving my point.

What have I said that was disgusting, and not deleted?

This shows that these guys are plain closed minded and ignorant and to them lying is not a problem but a solution to all their problems.

Funny. I am willing to discuss the evidence of things -- and *I* am the close minded one?

calling Islam some mix of jewish christian and greek mythology with Arab folklore is the worst insult and spitting in our faces.

shame on you

Personally, I have never called it that -- but I have pointed out that it is part of the Abrahamic category of religions. Who are you referring to with your comment?

[ozymandias]

you dont bring anything constructive to the forum rather want to cause friction and hate amongst people here.

Just because you don't see the value of me being here, and choose to lie about what I am doing does not make it true.

we have other things to discuss and have constructive discussion about our country,people,religion and social problems instead we are too busy to deal with insignificant people with their hateful irrelevant rants.

Then ignore whomever you think is ranting. In the mean time, I will join in ont he constructive conversations.

[ozymandias]

yeah take a look at this forum
this forum is for pashtuns who are over 99% muslims and yet you think it is illogical that people dotn appreciate your filthy rants

What filthy rants? When have I ever acted like I thought it was illogical that die-hard Muslims may have trouble understanding my points?

and disrespect to their religion or do you want us all to asimilate to you?

I don't want you to assimilate -- I want to learn about you, and try and understand you -- and get you to understand not everyone in the world has to assimilate to *you* for the world to get along just fine.

[ozymandias]

Death for apostasy in a Muslim state makes perfect sense from a logical and rational POV. Let us put our subjective morality aside and realize this, an Islamic state is governed by sharia law, and those laws are there to protect the ideology (Islam) behind it. Open apostasy threatens that ideology therefore the state and its subjects. No nation whether secular or thestic would allow an open threat to be tolerated. Death for apostasy in Islam has nothing to do with the individual free will or choice but the security of the Muslim state.

Oh, I fully understand that. Many, if not *most* religious laws, once separated from morality, actually make sense. Bans on eating certain foods protect the health of pre-technological peoples. Rules for the treatment of slaves, women, and foreigners help protect the members of a religious community.

Something being logical and rational in certain circumstances does not make it right, though.

[Karachi]

Death for apostasy in a Muslim state makes perfect sense from a logical and rational POV. Let us put our subjective morality aside and realize this, an Islamic state is governed by sharia law, and those laws are there to protect the ideology (Islam) behind it. Open apostasy threatens that ideology therefore the state and its subjects. No nation whether secular or thestic would allow an open threat to be tolerated. Death for apostasy in Islam has nothing to do with the individual free will or choice but the security of the Muslim state.

again there are differences of opinion on this subject, just leaving the faith will not result in death or shouldn't atleast

However attacking the faith and calling it names and other bad things might lead to death, yes. But again all these things would depend on the situation. Prophet(pbuh) use to judge every situation differently even if the person was committing the same crime.

No one has the right to kill any one out of the blue

[faye]

how is it that mohammad spoke about forgiveness and did it himself, but people can be killed for verbal offences against the religion? this doesn't make sense to me.

[Karachi]

how is it that mohammad spoke about forgiveness and did it himself, but people can be killed for verbal offences against the religion? this doesn't make sense to me.

Prophet(pbuh) forgave a lot of people for a lot of crimes they committed but disrespecting Islam and genuine hate of Islam is a big crime, especially if a person has no limits in his or her disrespect.

I think this applies when a person is living in muslim lands and is under the protection of an Islamic state, if he/she is disrespectful with no limits, than he/she would face punishment, not necessarily death, but some kind of punishment depending on the situation

[R3SISTANC3]

Oh, I fully understand that. Many, if not *most* religious laws, once separated from morality, actually make sense. Bans on eating certain foods protect the health of pre-technological peoples. Rules for the treatment of slaves, women, and foreigners help protect the members of a religious community.

Something being logical and rational in certain circumstances does not make it right, though.

According to modern philosophers right and wrong should be derived from rational, and logically sound deductions. Your claim to something being rational but at the same time not right is your opinion resulting from your subjective morality. It is no different than me saying that belief in God is good. The value of positive good and negative bad to beliefs and actions is given by us as a people. Science does not dictate what is good or bad, nor does nature. As an atheist your sense of right and wrong are merely your personal opinions, not objective moral truths. You should know this, and I'm sure you do, so please don't intentionaly make intellectualy dishonest statements.

Your reason to reject God can not be based on something being right or wrong, that sort of reasoning is intellectually flawed. You then argue material achievements which is the only logical reason to reject a God and His laws, that is the exact argument of most atheists against Islam is the material state of the Muslims.

[R3SISTANC3]

again there are differences of opinion on this subject, just leaving the faith will not result in death.

However attacking the faith and calling it names and other bad things might lead to death, yes. But again all these things would depend on the situation. Prophet(pbuh) use to judge every situation differently even if the person was committing the same crime.

No one has the right to kill any one out of the blue

Yes just mutating to a cancerous cell doesnt make you bad for the host body, but when you attack it that's when you become a mortal threat. And death for apostasy in Islam is not that easy. In fact it has been made hard by giving the accused 3 chances towards redemption. The penalty and declaration is also done by jurists versed in Islamic law not your internet or village shiekh.

[graveyardofempires]

I guess I am the exception to that claim? You know, because I am not Islam bashing....

im not talking about you here,unless you feel spoken to ,i was talking about so called pashtun atheists.



Here we go -- perfect example. Simply by being here I am 'disrespecting' you. Thanks for proving my point.

What have I said that was disgusting, and not deleted?
wasnt talking to you and neither do i find you being here as disrespecting.Nor do i think that you believing in whatever you do as disrespecting towards me.All im saying is to folks to not dosrespect our religion and people and culture or country.


Funny. I am willing to discuss the evidence of things -- and *I* am the close minded one?

what is the reason of discussing if you have your mind made up and your tactic is putting your fingers in your ears and than going blblahblah.

Personally, I have never called it that -- but I have pointed out that it is part of the Abrahamic category of religions. Who are you referring to with your comment?

calling Islam abrahimic religion is perfectly fine.
I wasnt refering to you an di dont think atheists should directly mean being abusive and disrespectful towards religious people.

i was talking about soldat amir,read his comment.

[graveyardofempires]

What filthy rants? When have I ever acted like I thought it was illogical that die-hard Muslims may have trouble understanding my points?


you know when you went to rant bout the prophet(pbuh) on the atheist pedophile thread.
Doesnt even have to be "die hard" to say that abusing the prophet is wrong.
I don't want you to assimilate -- I want to learn about you, and try and understand you -- and get you to understand not everyone in the world has to assimilate to *you* for the world to get along just fine.

you say you want to understand "us" ?than why are you pushing yourself on us as if you to understand "us" according to your view and than make us believe that your view of "us" is the right one?

[graveyardofempires]

Just because you don't see the value of me being here, and choose to lie about what I am doing does not make it true.
so tell me what is it that i lie about? and what is it that you are bringing?



Then ignore whomever you think is ranting. In the mean time, I will join in ont he constructive conversations.

yes join the constructive conversations which are yet to come and dont try to convince us about your belief.