The Immorality of Child Abuse

[faye]

running out of pre paid. try not to learn anything new, while i'm away;-)

[IamDZJ]

Stop talking about my imaginary daughter...you evil little girl. why? does it bring tears to your eyes?? of course it would...it's all business when you talk about someone else's child but then when it comes down to your own child, you don't want to hear it. What child? Your delusional! your imaginary daughter Come back to reality.

You seem to have a god complex so the picture of pharouh on your avatar is spon on. i don't worship nefertari. i find her character fascinating. You worship your self and that's the trait that you both have in common. to acknowledge a fork's existence or praise it's usefulness is not the same as worshiping it. to discard both those realities from the fear of confusing gratitude for worship is a clear indication of the peanut sizedness (yeah i know that is not an actual word..sue me) of the absurd mentality of an individual who considers himself to being someone who was born and raised inside a cave and has never had the pleasure of peeking at the world outside...i am sorry(not really) if you can't love yourself the way i love me. This proves that you are a narcissist with a god complex. "praise a fork" ftw
First of all, how do you know she would have been happier if she didn't marry at 13 but at 23? Did you ask her that yourself? Why don't you ask her ..and stop assuming so much. three months ago my flight was delayed in london so i did meet a lady who was married at 14 and i did ask her how she enjoyed being married at such a young age. she didn't seem to enjoy getting beaten up by her in laws for not being an impressive cook. not only that, she also said that she didn't understand what a marriage was let alone the idea of being in a happy one.in laws will beat you down even if you are 30 in afghanistan..]well that makes two things you have in common with your granma. by the age of 30 she would have developed better coping skills. also, one or two generations after people stop marrying children the chain of barbaric behavior among human beings who find hitting each other appropriate have long snapped in to pieces. (please don't cry) "Children"? Your dense as a sack of bricks. Like I keep telling you adulthood is defined by the onset of puberty in most cultures. Once you show signs of maturity you are an adult. It's obvious that you are so westernized that you can't get that at all! Your anecdotal evidences don't substantiate your claims that "All those married at a young age suffer from barbarism" (Dry your eyes, obviously you still haven't developed those coping skills and I doubt you will by age 40 even).
Secondly, I don't care if a girl is wed off at 13 or 33 or 54. Every individual's development is unique and there isn't a formula that works for all. thanks for clarifying that after 12 pages in to the argument. Can't help it you are that dense shut up Comparatively speaking, in western society men and women wed later in life, averaging around their early 30s...if what you are saying about age and happiness being a correlative then why do they have a higher fail rate? age is not the only factor that contributes to the failure of marriages in the west. Age is a small factor actually it's not. you don't leave a child in front a boiling pot of water. the burden of responsibility is less when you leave an adult to it. (unless of course, they come from where ever the hell you came from) She isn't a child anymore deal with it. You are not a child either. It's time you stopped acting like one. There are girls half your age that are twice more responsible, socially conscious and disciplined than you will be even 10 years from now. Why are they more miserable and more hooked up on anti depressants? From your grandmother's experience we can also learn that in Afghan society there is more community involvment and therefore a larger support network for each family. The case being, that if in Afghanistan girls are married at a young age they have the resources to be successful as parents...the same isn't true in the west where the culture is more individualistic. i am not here to defend the culture of the west. 60 years ago, if afghans knew what was better for them or the future of their children, we wouldn't be such an under developed country. we wouldn't be having this war. 70% of our population wouldn't end being illiterate. the likes of osama wouldn't be using our people as a shield against the west or whatever the hell it is they claim to be fighting against. we wouldn't have the highest rate of suicide bombers across the globe. what success are you talking about? You are brainwashed sweetheart.shudder** please, call me lema..You'r just lame150+ years ago we didn't go down to britain to wage war and Osama didn't even attack the west. we haven't done that now either. doesn't make anything better.. We have the highest number of deaths period! duh! you tie a bomb around yourself and press the button, what else do you expect?? as faye mentioned, we have young mothers dying at child birth...we have diseases..we have..um, A WAR. thanks for noticing that by the way..Typical jack ass come back. Everything goes back to "suicide bombing" for you nitwits. What does that have to do with people getting married? You and faye are just whimsical idiots. You say something and assume it to be true without even bothering to check if it is. This is proof positive that you have a god complex, believing your self to be omnipotent. Read this:



So the longer you wait, the higher the risk of dying at child birth!

As a matter of fact, there is a higher rate of infanticide in the west...cases of mothers killing their own children. And even cases of maternal depression which are unheard of in places like Afghanistan. has anyone heard of any type of depression in afghanistan? What is the excuse in the West? for the 156th time, i don't care for what is happening in the west. just because people are dying in the west from being depressed about the economy..drug overdoses or their failed marriages (totally not related to not being married to 13 years old by the way..) doesn't mean that it's not possible for people to have a healthy lifestyle while being married to an adult at the same time. I said COMPARATIVELY...Oh I just remembered! You didn't go to school. And have no higher education. Which is why you argue like a granny. Therefore, what works in Afghanistan won't necessarily work in the west. What matters is the context.
In the context of this discussion, seculare humanism, which is the breeding ground for atheism, does not provide the correct ethical frame work for society at large. i am going to say it again. in afghanistan, we don't have atheists. what we have is a population that believe they are muslims but know nothing of islam. they are being led by like minded people who once again, know nothing of islam. i am not here to advocate for secularism. in the beginning, this thread was made about atheists and all i said was that the root and cause of the issues existing in our society was not based on atheism and their sick pleasures. our problem is ignorance and easiest cure for that is education. we can't be a successful population if we send off our daughters to start making babies as soon as they are physically capable of doing so even though mentally or otherwise the are not prepared for it ...so they can grow up and tie bombs around themselves and blows themselves one by one on their way to victory against the evil west...(or who ever the hell they claim to be fighting against).

if you don't understand something as basic as that then i have no clue as to what your definition of ignorance could possibly be.
You are the clueless ignoramous that is spouting assumptive myths...despite all your education you are still not mentally fit for being a mother your self so stop projecting! You are the one who is ignorant of Islam and worse off you think you know it even though you haven't even been educated on Islam by anyone! No atheists in Afghanistan?What were those khalqis and Parchamies? Agnostics? they were not atheists. they did not claim to not believing in God. nowhere did either one of them admit to not believing in God. they were people who were supposed to be God fearing muslims while in fact they were not. you view them as non believers for whatever reasons the way i don't believe in the faithfulness of the osama's defenders to islam. Get off your high horse girl. You are not even half as smart as you think you are you lie! Oh wow! Communists were not atheists? LOL ...you idiot.
As said earlier, you are making arguments out of ignorance and show an inability to comprehend complex social issues. it's not as much of a complex social issue as you make it seem. as a matter of fact, it's a very simple and obvious issue with an even simpler solution. Simple because you are a simpleton your self. Your excused. you are not. You have been embarrassed enough simpleton. Just leave. The longer this drags on the more your illiterate behind will get exposed.

Suicide bombing has to do with marriages in the sense that it provides an opportunity for the mentalities of the individuals living in the 21th century justifying children getting married at the age of 13 with the excuse of the death rate increasing once (if) they grow up... Oblivious to the fact that the majority of deaths amongst mothers during childbirth in Afghanistan is because by the time they are 25, they have most likely had at least five children and four miscarriages (with a great desire for death probably) not a sufficient amount of nutrients required for a healthy mother or her child. (you are not oblivious to that fact. You simply choose not to acknowledge it) besides, the risk of maternal death raises after the age of 35 not 18. From the age of 18 to 35 one can have more than 15 children. If 5 of them are unsuccessful pregnancies, you will still be left with ten children which is three times more than an afghan couple should be allowed to have.
I would dare you to go ahead and call the child services on me but rest assured, I have no intentions of being a mother in the next 15 years if ever. You might want to worry about your first born though.
As I said, I have never met or heard of a communist claiming to be an atheist while living in Afghanistan. Your estimation of one is as accurate as your conversion of my admiration for a mythological character (queen hatshepsut) and my belief in her divineness (astaghfarullah)
I have no intentions of being civilized while in company of "educated" individuals who at one hand tend to give out the impression of valuing education while in other hand are depriving those in need for it at the same time. Perhaps their understanding for the value of education is only limited to their own gender unless it comes down to taunting someone of the opposite gender for their lack of it while trying to prove themselves "civil" and "educated".
I might be "uneducated" and "uncivilized" but I most definitely am not a moron with double standards. That is alot more than one can at about some other God fearing Muslims around here..

[Alchemist]

Faye,
Bone formation is affected by poor nutrition in third world countries. So if even 14 or 24 the story is the same. Besides, if what you were saying was true then the that would have been the case in developed countries as well.
Why don't you tell us why you got divorced anyway?

Faye Jr....before anything we have to teach you how to write and formulate your thoughts.

Suicide bombing has to do with marriages in the sense that it provides an opportunity for the mentalities of the individuals living in the 21th century justifying children getting married at the age of 13 with the excuse of the death rate increasing once (if) they grow up...

This sentence is too long. Also you are trying to present proof by verbosity.

This is like saying "DaJahrooJam is an idiot because patotoes." There is no logical connection between human bombs and marriage. Mujahideen normally forgo marriage and commit to becoming shaheed.
You are trying very hard to associate these two unrelated phenomena in order to appeal to the emotional sensitivity people feel towards human bombings. It is a very crase and pathetic tactic. It is called a non sequiter fallacy.

Oblivious to the fact that the majority of deaths amongst mothers during childbirth in Afghanistan is because by the time they are 25, they have most likely had at least five children and four miscarriages (with a great desire for death probably) not a sufficient amount of nutrients required for a healthy mother or her child.

Unsupported Claims.
We don't know if any of that is true because we do not have a correct census from Afghanistan. We are oblivious in general. But you suppose you are omnipotent and that what you say is actually true. If you can provide a reference to these wild allegations then sure enough you win this debate. Otherwise you are just being batty.

(you are not oblivious to that fact. You simply choose not to acknowledge it) besides, the risk of maternal death raises after the age of 35 not 18. From the age of 18 to 35 one can have more than 15 children. If 5 of them are unsuccessful pregnancies, you will still be left with ten children which is three times more than an afghan couple should be allowed to have.

More gibberish.
You are not god that you should know how many children a couple SHOULD have.

I would dare you to go ahead and call the child services on me but rest assured, I have no intentions of being a mother in the next 15 years if ever. You might want to worry about your first born though.

I am more tempted to call the insane asylum on you.
Why would I have to worry anyway?

As I said, I have never met or heard of a communist claiming to be an atheist while living in Afghanistan. Your estimation of one is as accurate as your conversion of my admiration for a mythological character (queen hatshepsut) and my belief in her divineness (astaghfarullah)

What a fool you are.
And why do you suppose the people of Afghanistan rebelled against the Communists in the first place if not out of religious convictions? Perhaps you missed out on the scenes of Communist leaders mocking Islam on television? Every communist is an atheist. Perhaps you should do your research little girl. Communism is based on materialism, which assumes that the only things that exists are those which you can see, touch and feel - hence atheism.
I never said that you worship the egyptian but that you share a characteristic with her. The egyptian rulers believed that they were gods themselves. They were mushrik. You tell us that you know Islam but find mushriks admirable?

I have no intentions of being civilized while in company of "educated" individuals who at one hand tend to give out the impression of valuing education while in other hand are depriving those in need for it at the same time. Perhaps their understanding for the value of education is only limited to their own gender unless it comes down to taunting someone of the opposite gender for their lack of it while trying to prove themselves "civil" and "educated".

You are a slave to your own animus.

I might be "uneducated" and "uncivilized" but I most definitely am not a moron with double standards. That is alot more than one can at about some other God fearing Muslims around here..

Yup, play the feminism card when all else fails.

pathetic.

[faye]

alchemist, i never got divorced. why aren't you married yet, old chap.

[JAMALUDEEN]

Connecting suicide bombings to marriage...Just awesome.

Faye is no better, she had a debate with me one time, in which she claimed that anglo australians and red necks are being discriminated against by aboriginals..muslims..and all the other minorities..in Australia.. which was absurd..and the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard..

lol

[graveyardofempires]

^^lol

[faye]

Connecting suicide bombings to marriage...Just awesome.

Faye is no better, she had a debate with me one time, in which she claimed that anglo australians and red necks are being discriminated against by aboriginals..muslims..and all the other minorities..in Australia.. which was absurd..and the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard..

lol

lol, jamaludeen and goe, make a great little gang. you both have a wonderful capacity to misinterpret and exaggerate.

[graveyardofempires]

lol, jamaludeen and goe, make a great little gang. you both have a wonderful capacity to misinterpret and exaggerate.

quit the prejudice

[IamDZJ]

Faye Jr....before anything we have to teach you how to write and formulate your thoughts.



This sentence is too long. Also you are trying to present proof by verbosity.

This is like saying "DaJahrooJam is an idiot because patotoes." There is no logical connection between human bombs and marriage. Mujahideen normally forgo marriage and commit to becoming shaheed.
You are trying very hard to associate these two unrelated phenomena in order to appeal to the emotional sensitivity people feel towards human bombings. It is a very crase and pathetic tactic. It is called a non sequiter fallacy.
quit acting like a bitch for a change. it's pretty obvious that i lost my train of thought halfway through the sentence. i am sorry for not typing you a well structured essay on my phone while i was standing in the line up at the bank.
i am not using any tactics to make anyone feel anything. unlike you, for me, this is just a conversation between you and i.
the connection is pretty obvious. for the last 12 pages i have been constantly repeating the same ****, explaining to you the very obvious reasons as to why are in the mess that they are in. girl doesn't get proper education..girl becomes a baby making machine...population is out of control...girl dies and her children are raised improperly with no education..blah blah blah, the chain continues.
i shouldn't have to remind you of this in every single post. i hate repetition and you just love going in circles.


Unsupported Claims.
We don't know if any of that is true because we do not have a correct census from Afghanistan. We are oblivious in general. But you suppose you are omnipotent and that what you say is actually true. If you can provide a reference to these wild allegations then sure enough you win this debate. Otherwise you are just being batty. what do you need support for? is it not pretty obvious? don't afghan women have multiple miscarriages?? don't they have at least five babies by the time they reach the age of 25 if they get married at 13??

More gibberish.
You are not god that you should know how many children a couple SHOULD have.
just because God doesn't drop a clue at you from the sky to tell you to stop doesn't mean you should have a baby every year. human beings are not rabbits. if you live in a third world country where poverty is a serious issue and your children are bound to end up selling gum or collecting garbage in the streets in order to feed their siblings before they even reach the age of 18, it's pretty obvious that you should have stopped producing a long time ago.
go ahead, tell me that afghanistan is not a third world country and that afghan children don't sell gum or collect garbage in the streets in order to feed their siblings.
I am more tempted to call the insane asylum on you.
Why would I have to worry anyway?


What a fool you are.
And why do you suppose the people of Afghanistan rebelled against the Communists in the first place if not out of religious convictions? Perhaps you missed out on the scenes of Communist leaders mocking Islam on television? i have seen more cases of muslims mocking islam than i have of any other religious or political regime do. you don't see me pointing my finger at every muslim and telling them they are wrong. Every communist is an atheist. Perhaps you should do your research little girl. Communism is based on materialism, which assumes that the only things that exists are those which you can see, touch and feel - hence atheism. blowing **** out of proportion as usual..zan lacharbaz wari yak dafa ki shoro kadi, chup nameshi.
I never said that you worship the egyptian but that you share a characteristic with her. you have something in common with the jews. you too like them have a nose, two ears and a mouth. that doesn't make you a jew, does it?? The egyptian rulers believed that they were gods themselves. did i say i was a god?? They were mushrik. You tell us that you know Islam but find mushriks admirable? at times, i do. i am fascinated by lots of people regardless of their beliefs on God or themselves...just because someone doesn't believe in islam doesn't mean they don't exist. that existence fascinates me. God made human beings first and then introduced islam to them. how can you be a proper muslim if you can't be a proper human being first?

You are a slave to your own animus. watch me not deny that.
[B][FONT=Arial][COLOR=Navy]
Yup, play the feminism card when all else fails. i am not playing anything. you believe in education but only for men since you want women married by the age of 13. explain to me how else that works.
pathetic. indeed, you are.

[JAMALUDEEN]

DaZahrooJam, Please respond to my post..

[IamDZJ]

jamaludeen i am not bashing islam, i am bashing you. i know better than blaming islam for your behaviour. don't flatter yourself. in my opinion, you stand very far away from islam regardless of what you claim.

define a woman for you so you could redefine it for me by squeezing in the translation of forming boobs in to the definition of womanhood?? a woman is not a woman until she has reached the age of 21. i know that because i went through that phase and i realize how naive i was before that age and how my view of the people and things around me changed drastically. you probably started growing a beard around that time so you don't even have a clue as to what age a woman becomes a woman by. there are two type of women who get married at a young age and one type of a child that gets married at a young age. end of the story on that subject.
just because i said growing breasts is not a good enough of an excuse as to why someone should be married doesn't mean i boycott biology or the full growth of a brain. (i swear you people will give me a hemorrhage one of these days)

i don't want to define hurt.

so if i am telling a girl who is younger than 18 years of age to wait until she is older before she decides to get married, then i am contradicting myself because i too like those who are out to get her married at the age of 13 am imposing my views on her??
are mothers who are holding on to their children's hands while crossing the road also imposing on their children? why shouldn't they let go of their child's hand and let him go off to where ever he wants to go?? so they are not just as evil and imposing as some stranger who might take away with the child and do with his future as he pleases?? what kind of an argument is this??
don't they hold on to their children because children don't know what is right or wrong for them until a certain age and then let them cross the road on their own??

i never bothered myself with alchemist's videos. i have raised four siblings from the ages of 6 to 18 and not once have i felt as frustrated with either one of them as i have been feeling with the two of you the last four days. if there are 4 other idiots like you out there then there is no point. afghanistan is not going to be fixed any time soon. we are doomed.

and please, don't remove the font color or quotations from my posts when you reply to them the way i reply to yours. i do it because it's clear with my font color as to where i start and where you end. it's confusing when you do it.

You again have no argument and fail to fathom the complexity of this topic being discussed, and as i mentioned earlier, you argue for the sake of arguing. you know how easy saying that is??
You consider marriage between a 13 years old girl and a 60 years old man to be morally wrong? in today's time and age, yes. How do you know that its wrong? the same way i know that the sky is blue. What is right and wrong? common sense bro... where do you get your morals from? experience...cause and effect theory applied.. Don't you get your morals from religion? not nessacerly If you do, then marriage between a 13 years old and a 60 years is not considered as wrong..according to islam.. i respect islam but i don't believe in blind faith. i m not going to sit on my behind and live by theories all my life. i am going to apply them and compare the results.

Answer these questions honestly.

Is homosexuality wrong according to islam or not?
did the God that all muslims worship create all that exists in this world and beyond or not? how do you know for sure that a homosexual can help himself if he tried hard enough not to be a homosexual? islam says it's wrong but i am not going to decide if something is right or wrong with out understanding it first and i don't know for sure if a homosexual can or can not help himself with being what God created him as.
Is abortion wrong according to islam or not? after a certain point, it's wrong.
Is the age of marriage (13) wrong according to islam or not? the appropriate age for marriage in islam is when one reaches puberty. everyone does not reach the age of puberty at 13. okay? so a) nowhere could it have said that the girls must get married by the age of 13 and b) through out history, the age by which children reach puberty has dropped.
also, it's the appropriate age by which one must be married not the absolute age by which they should be married.
what is your next argument?? "should people waste their time by going to school and finding a job to provide a better lifestyle (materialism and selfishness!!!!) for their children or should they stay home and worship God??" ??
what exactly do you mean by 'western laws'?? laws that are made by people who live in the west? don't muslims live in the west??
Is homosexuality wrong according to western laws or not? generally speaking, it's considered wrong.
Is abortion wrong according to western laws or not? it depends on which part of the west you are talking about.
Is the age of marriage (13) wrong according to western laws or not? the age of 13 is "wrong" for lots of thing in the west. drinking, marriage, starting a personal business, driving ummmmm.....smoking..lots of things.. what is your point??

Something does not just become wrong or right, just because you say so.. did i say they are right or wrong because i say so?? Something does not just become wrong or right..just because it benefits you ..or not..yeah?? so why do you throw away the molded bread from the fridge?? why don't you eat it?? what do you mean it's wrong to eat molded bread?? you said just because something benefits someone doesn't mean it's right so eating molded bread even though it has no benefits should not be something wrong.
know what i mean by common sense?

The world population is 6,840,507,000...and you have raised 3 siblings..big deal..
what does that have to do with anything?? i said i raised 4 siblings and they haven't frustrated me as much in their entire lives as the two of you did this past week. what does that have to do with islam??

once again, I DON'T CARE FOR THE WEST. WHY ARE YOU COMPARING EVERYTHING TO THE WEST????
i don't take pleasure in obsessing over dark pleasures of the immoral people of the south, north, east or the west. my social obligations are a part of my moral obligations. i believe in morphing them together so one doesn't overshadow the other and creating a peaceful environment where people are able to live peacefully rather than bombing each other or exploding themselves in order to make a statement about themselves or their beliefs.

do you know what a social obligation is?

answer this question honestly...
ever since you gathered sense of yourself as a being, have you once paused to think and confirm it with yourself before you said "ashahdu anna la ilaha ilallah, mohammad rasulallah". once? ever??

[Alchemist]

Maybe I can explain this to you by using pictures

quit acting like a bitch for a change. it's pretty obvious that i lost my train of thought halfway through the sentence.

i am sorry for not typing you a well structured essay on my phone while i was standing in the line up at the bank.

i am not using any tactics to make anyone feel anything. unlike you, for me, this is just a conversation between you and i.
the connection is pretty obvious. for the last 12 pages i have been constantly repeating the same ****, explaining to you the very obvious reasons as to why are in the mess that they are in. girl doesn't get proper education..girl becomes a baby making machine...population is out of control...girl dies and her children are raised improperly with no education..blah blah blah, the chain continues.
i shouldn't have to remind you of this in every single post. i hate repetition and you just love going in circles.

what do you need support for? is it not pretty obvious? don't afghan women have multiple miscarriages?? don't they have at least five babies by the time they reach the age of 25 if they get married at 13??

(the population of afghanistan would increase by 5 fold every 20 years)

just because God doesn't drop a clue at you from the sky to tell you to stop doesn't mean you should have a baby every year. human beings are not rabbits. if you live in a third world country where poverty is a serious issue and your children are bound to end up selling gum or collecting garbage in the streets in order to feed their siblings before they even reach the age of 18, it's pretty obvious that you should have stopped producing a long time ago.
go ahead, tell me that afghanistan is not a third world country and that afghan children don't sell gum or collect garbage in the streets in order to feed their siblings.

i have seen more cases of muslims mocking islam than i have of any other religious or political regime do. you don't see me pointing my finger at every muslim and telling them they are wrong.

blowing **** out of proportion as usual..zan lacharbaz wari yak dafa ki shoro kadi, chup nameshi.

you have something in common with the jews. you too like them have a nose, two ears and a mouth. that doesn't make you a jew, does it??

did i say i was a god??

at times, i do. i am fascinated by lots of people regardless of their beliefs on God or themselves...just because someone doesn't believe in islam doesn't mean they don't exist. that existence fascinates me. God made human beings first and then introduced islam to them. how can you be a proper muslim if you can't be a proper human being first?

proper human being = jannati
egyptian goddess = dozaqi

watch me not deny that.

i am not playing anything. you believe in education but only for men since you want women married by the age of 13. explain to me how else that works.

indeed, you are.

[IamDZJ]