Question to the atheists

[Alchemist]

reasonable my foot!

They are just pissed that Jamalludin spoke the truth.
There was no such thing as "pashtun nationalism" until a few decades ago...so does that mean pashtuns are not nationalists by nature? Ridiculous.


Soldout and Zalmay are just trying to Poison the Well because they have been outted as western patsies.

So what is the logic?
Lose Islam = Live comfortably like western people?
Doesn't that just validate what the muslims are suspecting anyway? That the west is targeting Islamic countries simply because they believe in Allah and practice the religion which contradicts the materialistic dogma of the west? So wouldn't that mean that anyone who does practice Islam is in truth rebelling against the corporate greed that turns human life worthless?
Western civilization is in decline, and you expect pashtuns to start shaving their beards and wear jeans? How is that relavent anyway?
If anything those arabs that are turning indian slaves into work monkeys are in truth adopting WESTERN IDEALS...just like how china is. Those Gulf state monarchies are all getting tutored by UK and USA on how to conduct business. All their engineers, architects, project managers, business consultants etc etc come from the west...so if anything you can say they are following your plan..so be happy.

And why are afghans poor and hungry in the first place? Because of communism or mullahs? USSR invaded Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia? And this guy is putting a picture of lenine in his avatar and saying "Well, he was a great man"? Lenine was an authotarian ...who enforced his own views onto others. Who forced people to abandon their religion...just like how the communist leadership in Afghanistan were trying to do - arresting "mullahs", torturing them and killing them. And you dislike the taliban because???

If you examin your own assumptions they don't make any sense. All you have is just empty rhetoric. And when that get's exposed you try your best to poison the well...

[graveyardofempires]

Aow kana! da khalq pa Western countries shay nastee dee, Western tax paisay kreee, aow meez ta ya yee chee tuse Pashtin na yee aoe tuese Kuffur yeee.

Da dooo nambar khalq deee!

Ar yu Pashtin pa mu zra shay deee, Muslim nor Not, da khalq na gwaree chee Pashtin progress shee, Da afsos khabara da cheee daygh day Pa west shay nust deee aow meeez ta yee cheee kim Pashtin westernized wee aow Secular wee da day Pashtun dushman deee.

Worray warkseee, doo nambar khalq...doday kreee pa West shay aow ma ta ya yeee Afghanistan tu gwanay khalq na goreee!

Pa DI Khan shay, mu sumraaa khalq khizmat mu waka, paisay paghar, toola reeez mu ghat ghat reezay aow UN aid sacks mu khalqoo ta wray ka wal.

Da Jamaludeen aoe GOE cha kareee deee Pashtin pura?

you cant speak pashto so talk in your native english language.

BTW i pay taxes and im sure people such as you live of my tax money.

dreaming is ok

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

Afghanistan is a country that is so thoroughly prostituted, that it boggles my mind how we have Afghans who think personal beliefs of an individual is a priority.

Dont worry about economics, make sure the men have fist full of chin hair!

This is why our nation is constantly manipulated and prostituted by nations who know better

I can understand animosity towards athiests who come to power, or "liberals" who come to power and enforce their unnatural ways on the Afghans. Ex Khalqis, Ammanullah etc

But here we have atheists like me and Levanaye Zelmaye, who actually dont want to make any changes to the religion of the people. Ive gone on record to say that if I ran the country, I would run it under strict shariah.

I have no allusions about my people, for all my NWA ness and Amir ness, I know my people well

Anyways you dirty rats, keep trashing the educated future of your country, especially those who are against the foreign invasion, against the war, never sold out, never became a jasoos or tarjuman no matter how much money is thrown at him, never stole, never lied, never took what didnt belong to him

Keep trashing me, cuz I enjoy a drink and retired my janimaz. Im sure you two will be doing great things for Afghanistan

[Alchemist]

^ DUDE!
You are confusing me.
You said you are hanafi. Now you are saying you are atheist.

Why would you want strict sharia in Afghanistan if you don't follow it your self? According to strict Sharia ...your head will be chopped off for apostatizing in Afghanistan.

And by the way, Khalqis were also the "educated atheist future"...been there, done that. And you know that! Education doesn't make you anything special...

I think I've proven that over and over on this forum...everyone here who thinks themselves to be educated are in reality encapsulated by a mirage that distorts their perspective. Afghanistan doesn't need more technocrates and politicians but business minded individuals that understand the capitalisitic nature of the 21st century world. And even then when these types of adventurers go to Afghanistan to establish themselves you have Warlords who bully and harass them, kick them out of the country and take over their successful business. And these warlords they are all for their own pockets instead of helping the community at large.

Nah, B!
I think you have intuitively understood that what Afghanistan needs is a real gun clappin N.I.G.G.A. A hardcore gangstar who would go down to Afghanistan...take over the heroin industry and slowly go into a turf war for more power. Because whoever has power has the ability to change the landscape. A powerful man can do what takes an ordinary man many life times to do. Maybe Batman..because he is already rich, already strong and disciplined enough to over take an army on his own with his crafty ninjitsu.


But to the ordinary Afghan, the All Powerful is Allah. And if a sincere believer prays from the bottom of his heart, Allah will answer his prayer. So they put their faith in Allah because Allah can do anything. The Islamic empire rose over a fortnight...the riches of both rome and persia were given to them when only a generation before their father's couldn't even imagine such a thing happening.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

^ DUDE!
You are confusing me.
You said you are hanafi. Now you are saying you are atheist.

Why would you want strict sharia in Afghanistan if you don't follow it your self? According to strict Sharia ...your head will be chopped off for apostatizing in Afghanistan.

And by the way, Khalqis were also the "educated atheist future"...been there, done that. And you know that! Education doesn't make you anything special...

I think I've proven that over and over on this forum...everyone here who thinks themselves to be educated are in reality encapsulated by a mirage that distorts their perspective. Afghanistan doesn't need more technocrates and politicians but business minded individuals that understand the capitalisitic nature of the 21st century world. And even then when these types of adventurers go to Afghanistan to establish themselves you have Warlords who bully and harass them, kick them out of the country and take over their successful business. And these warlords they are all for their own pockets instead of helping the community at large.

Nah, B!
I think you have intuitively understood that what Afghanistan needs is a real gun clappin N.I.G.G.A. A hardcore gangstar who would go down to Afghanistan...take over the heroin industry and slowly go into a turf war for more power. Because whoever has power has the ability to change the landscape. A powerful man can do what takes an ordinary man many life times to do. Maybe Batman..because he is already rich, already strong and disciplined enough to over take an army on his own with his crafty ninjitsu.


But to the ordinary Afghan, the All Powerful is Allah. And if a sincere believer prays from the bottom of his heart, Allah will answer his prayer. So they put their faith in Allah because Allah can do anything. The Islamic empire rose over a fortnight...the riches of both rome and persia were given to them when only a generation before their father's couldn't even imagine such a thing happening.

my background is Hanafi Sunni, but I dont believe in religion. Im a sooooch kafir

I advocate strict Islamic law for Afghanistan as that is what is needed to

- reinforce law and order
- unite various ethnicities and tribes under one identity
- reclaim authentic interpretations of Islam from the jahiliya of the Taliban
- allow legitimacy for the Afghan govt
- convince militants to give up the guns

Religion is a tool to control the masses. I would use Islam to make sure everyone gets in line.

Of course, if I was leader, I wouldnt make it be publicly known that I was a non believer

Yes, Afghanistan needs a gun clapper of the highest order. I disagree with your assessment of education, although judging from the looting behaviour of most of the "technocrats" who currently make up the afghan govt I dont fault you for your pessimism

Afghanistan cannot be pushed into modernity, it needs to be slightly nudged bit by bit. Thats why the Khalqis and Amanullah were useless losers

[Alchemist]

my background is Hanafi Sunni, but I dont believe in religion. Im a sooooch kafir

I advocate strict Islamic law for Afghanistan as that is what is needed to

- reinforce law and order
- unite various ethnicities and tribes under one identity
- reclaim authentic interpretations of Islam from the jahiliya of the Taliban
- allow legitimacy for the Afghan govt
- convince militants to give up the guns

Religion is a tool to control the masses. I would use Islam to make sure everyone gets in line.

Of course, if I was leader, I wouldnt make it be publicly known that I was a non believer

Yes, Afghanistan needs a gun clapper of the highest order. I disagree with your assessment of education, although judging from the looting behaviour of most of the "technocrats" who currently make up the afghan govt I dont fault you for your pessimism

Afghanistan cannot be pushed into modernity, it needs to be slightly nudged bit by bit. Thats why the Khalqis and Amanullah were useless losers

So you'd be a hypocrite then?

Do you have any values?

Because if you don't have values, and you are in a position of power, what makes you think you will not end up like the rest of them losers?

Just wondering though...how do you feel about the Parchamies. From what I understand they too thought "bit by bit" was the way to go.

[randolph85]

funny thing is that when i was a non believer back in the day, i was a hardcore afghan nationalist, despite the fact that i would be rejected by the majority of afghans because of my lack of faith.

non religious afghans need to ask themselves why they proclaim themselves as patriots when they are far more accepted for what they believe in in moscow or washington, than kabul or kandahar.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

You are everything, that is the opposite of being a pashtun.

First, Pashtuns are muslims, you are not.
Second, you are an atheist...Atheists don't care about no one else but themselves,(The Selfish Gene) in the west people live more of individualistic life..not a collective life (Pashtun way of life).. the contradictions??? which ones again.. what you are trying is "peh yaw las ki dwa indwaney nesey"..
Third, you disrespect Afghans by disrespecting their religion, and throw around sarcastic remarks..which are not even funny.
Fourth, You will never be accepted in the Afghan society, when you come clean about your beliefs..
Fifth, you consider them backward...and blame everything on their religon..
Sixth, you consider their way of life backward...
Seventh, your hero is a communist...who was the reason by the deaths of so many...
Eighth, it is unreasonable for an atheist to follow "Pashtunwali" which is very old and backward according to you...

i could go on..

but you get the picture..

good attempt at hijacking my thread for your own sick agendas....

1) Were there no Pashtuns before 1000AD? Please answer this question. Stop avoiding it.

2) That is your opinion and that is pure subjective speculation. "Atheism" is not a dogma or a belief system. There are conservative and liberal atheists and atheists who subscribe to all sorts of different philosophies of life, ranging from Zen Buddhism to Nordic paganism. Your claim that I am selfish because my beliefs regarding theocracy differ from yours is like saying that if I don't believe in life on Mars, I must be a very generous person.

3) Where have I disrespected Islam?

4) My beliefs are my personal matter which have nothing whatsoever to do with anyone else.

5) I consider my own people backward because my lar ao bar Pashtana are amongst the lowest in the human development index.

6) I consider not sending your daughter to school backwards. I'm sure you'd agree.

7) Lenin led millions of people in the overthrow of one of the most cruel kings of his time. He represents the wretched masses and their everlasting struggle. If only he had a bigger beard and an Arabic name, you'd worship him.

8) What does atheism have to do with Pashtunwali? If anything, Pashtunwali contradicts Islam.

Jamaludeen, you also haven't answered my other questions. If only a Muslim is to be a Pashtun then do you subscribe to other Pashtun practices, thereby making yourself a Pashtun?

- Do you wear kamis pardug everyday?
- Do you wear a patka, pakol or shamla?
- Do you have a Sunnah beard?
- Do you pray five times a day in a mosque?
- Do you hold hands with your male friends in a non-sexual way?


If you do not adhere to this dress-code and this Pashtun behaviors, I'm afraid you're not a Pashtun.

The point of this exercise if to expose the ridiculousness of your assertion that a person who was born a Pashtun and later on in his life, changed his beliefs regarding the universe, suddenly and mysteriously stops being a Pashtun.

nahi bhai jan, mein Pakistani nahi hoon, leykan..ekk baath mein app ko batta deta hoon.. muje ek Pakistani par app sey zyada barosa hai...

mein kissi se nafrat nahi karta, leyken woo dosri bhaat hai key mein pakistan ki hokomat aur fouj key khilaf hoon..

Samjey Bachoo..

Abhi jaoo or kahi aur apni nafrat kho kharij karo..

Why?

[Alchemist]

7) Lenin led millions of people in the overthrow of one of the most cruel kings of his time. He represents the wretched masses and their everlasting struggle. If only he had a bigger beard and an Arabic name, you'd worship him.

And if he had a beard and an arabic name you'd stop worshipping him?


lol

[JAMALUDEEN]

1) Were there no Pashtuns before 1000AD? Please answer this question. Stop avoiding it.

2) That is your opinion and that is pure subjective speculation. "Atheism" is not a dogma or a belief system. There are conservative and liberal atheists and atheists who subscribe to all sorts of different philosophies of life, ranging from Zen Buddhism to Nordic paganism. Your claim that I am selfish because my beliefs regarding theocracy differ from yours is like saying that if I don't believe in life on Mars, I must be a very generous person.

3) Where have I disrespected Islam?

4) My beliefs are my personal matter which have nothing whatsoever to do with anyone else.

5) I consider my own people backward because my lar ao bar Pashtana are amongst the lowest in the human development index.

6) I consider not sending your daughter to school backwards. I'm sure you'd agree.

7) Lenin led millions of people in the overthrow of one of the most cruel kings of his time. He represents the wretched masses and their everlasting struggle. If only he had a bigger beard and an Arabic name, you'd worship him.

8) What does atheism have to do with Pashtunwali? If anything, Pashtunwali contradicts Islam.

Jamaludeen, you also haven't answered my other questions. If only a Muslim is to be a Pashtun then do you subscribe to other Pashtun practices, thereby making yourself a Pashtun?

- Do you wear kamis pardug everyday?
- Do you wear a patka, pakol or shamla?
- Do you have a Sunnah beard?
- Do you pray five times a day in a mosque?
- Do you hold hands with your male friends in a non-sexual way?


If you do not adhere to this dress-code and this Pashtun behaviors, I'm afraid you're not a Pashtun.

The point of this exercise if to expose the ridiculousness of your assertion that a person who was born a Pashtun and later on in his life, changed his beliefs regarding the universe, suddenly and mysteriously stops being a Pashtun.

1.
Of course there were, but did Afghanistan exist prior to 1000 A.D.? Had Islam reached the people of Afghanistan before 1000 A.D.?
It was Islam which united the Pashtun Tribes against the enemies...does the concept of Jihad ring a bell?
Moreover, Afghanistan came to existence, because of the very same reason...If atheism had reached Afghanistan and not Islam, we wouldn't be having this debate ...
on this very forum .. which also wouldn't exist.

So I ask you ones again, how do you relate to Afghanistan? the national Anthem? The Pashtuns? the Flag? The people? You are an atheist, the people are muslims.

You claim to be a Pashtun? and most pashtuns will consider you as a non-pashtun...apostas...traitor... the moment they know of your beliefs.....just like what happened to the commies..
so it is up to you to choose... You can stand in the corner, and try to hold two watermelons (Being a Pashtun and an atheist.) with one hand...or you could repent ..and be one of them.


This Tajik Kaka tells me, that you cannot be a pashtun...without being a muslim.. He was a journalist in Afghanistan...around the times of the soviets. Real talker..full of knowledge and wisdom...
He has seen it all...

2. Yes, you are selfish. Pashtuns are known to be religious people, and you disrespect all of them by choosing to be an atheist.... You are also being selfish towards your family...
especially in regard to their honour.... Will they feel proud that their son has become a atheist?

There is so much wrong with Atheism.... you probably don't even care about all this..as you choose not to care..which is being selfish again.

3. You do this all the time, with your little sarcastic remarks...

4. You make fun of Islam.. you call it backwards.. and you think people who follow islam are not smart. Your beliefs are not so ..personal anymore.
If your beliefs are a personal matter to you, then why do you even bother defending it? not so personal anymore..

5. Foriegn interference in Afghanistan has caused most of the problems we face today, and instead of countering the enemy, you have adopted their ideas, beliefs, values, way of life.
A real Pashtuns sticks to his beliefs, values.. way of life.. You have given up hope on your people. yet still you want to be a pashtun and adopt western ideass, beliefs, values...
Again, trying to hold two watermelons with one hand..


6. I have nothing against this.. Education is very important for Muslims and is encouraged.

7. Your hero should be Ahmad Shah Baba, and all the other Afghan Heroes... Who united the Pashtun tribes and other ethnic groups against the foriegn oppressors...
Lenin was not a muslim, Lenin was not a pashtun.. Lenin did not rule Afghanistan.. Why should you care? You seem to be fond of foriegn heroes more than Pashtun Heroes.
I do not worship our heroes... I have respect for them for what they have done for us..but thats all.

8. Atheists believe in reason..logic... the rational mind, and there is nothing reasonable about Tribalism ...or pashtunwali... looking through their lens.

Imagine, an atheist whos honour has been challenged..and there he goes.. picks up a sword and goes to kill his enemy... lol.. not a rational choice....

SO WHY WOULD AN ATHEIST HOLD ON TO A CULTURE..THAT ENDANGERS HIS LIFE..WHY SHOULD HE SACRIFICE HIS ONLY LIFE...WHY SHOULD HE CARE ABOUT THE HONOUR OF HIS FELLOW PASHTUNS.? THERE IS NO HELL OR HEAVEN..ANYWAYS..

Its Survival of the fittest BRO..
You can't be Mad Bro..
You got to be smart Bro..Think smart bro.!!!
If you be Pashtun bro, then you have to defend your honor bro..which may as well get you killed bro...
If you be Pashtun bro, you have to protect those..who take refuge in your home bro...which may get you killed again bro..








and the last bit of your post...

These are dumb questions, no offence. So, a westerner who wears Kamis Partug, puts on a patka, grows a sunnah beard, goes to a mosque and prays...hold hands with friends in non-sexual way...should all be considered pashtuns too.
These are minor issues..

You cannot be a pashtun, just because you are muslim.
You cannot be a pashtun, without being a muslim. Get it?

Why?

kyu ki app jhoot bohot boltey hoon.... or hamarey imaan ka mazaq bi bohot orahtey hoon..

Aur is liye, key app Muslims nahi hoon. Tumey kya lagta hai..agar koi kafir mujhe kuch khaney ko deta hai or kehta hai key is mein sooar ka ghosht nahi hain..to mein os ka yaqeen karlo..

Kabhi Nahi..

[JAMALUDEEN]

And if he had a beard and an arabic name you'd stop worshipping him?


lol

I think, he is an atheist for the wrong reason....

critical...objective thinking is a must for atheists (Well, thats what most of them claim).... and which he has yet ...again failed to show.

He doesn't hate Jews..who have beards..
Westerners also have beards...he doesn't hate them..
Soldout Khamir used to have a beard.. and probably has a muslim name...yet again he doesn't hate him..

He has a grudge against Muslims for some reason...

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

So you'd be a hypocrite then?

Do you have any values?

Because if you don't have values, and you are in a position of power, what makes you think you will not end up like the rest of them losers?

Just wondering though...how do you feel about the Parchamies. From what I understand they too thought "bit by bit" was the way to go.

My values would be an honest clean effective govt and a strong nation. what i need to do to achieve that is irrelevant

The Parchamis are tarnished by their affiliation with foreign occupiers

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

1.
Of course there were, but did Afghanistan exist prior to 1000 A.D.?

So what was the religion of Pashtun people before 1000AD?

If the mark of a Pashtun is that they don't change their beliefs no matter what, why did they change theirs?

If Pashtuns shouldn't adopt the religion of foreign conquerors, why did Buddhist, Hindu and pagan Pashtuns adopt the religion of their Arab and Turkish conquerors?

I went through the rest of your post but it was mostly rabble rant and hence didn't merit any sort of response. It's mostly stuff like "atheists should do this and this and believe so and so" whereas I don't think I should do this and this and believe so and so, so stop putting words in my mouth.

By the way, this is a serious question - what's your age? Please be honest. The last part of your post suggests that you cannot be over 16. I could be wrong by a few months though.

And if he had a beard and an arabic name you'd stop worshipping him?


lol

I worship Lenin? What is it with people thinking on my behalf? Am I that special?

And what part of "people's religion doesn't matter to me" do you find so hard to understand? I couldn't care less if Lenin was a Hanbali imaam and expert-level muezin.

[JAMALUDEEN]

So what was the religion of Pashtun people before 1000AD?

If the mark of a Pashtun is that they don't change their beliefs no matter what, why did they change theirs?

If Pashtuns shouldn't adopt the religion of foreign conquerors, why did Buddhist, Hindu and pagan Pashtuns adopt the religion of their Arab and Turkish conquerors?

I went through the rest of your post but it was mostly rabble rant and hence didn't merit any sort of response.

By the way, this is a serious question - what's your age? Please be honest. The last part of your post suggests that you cannot be over 16. I could be wrong by a few months though.

your little brain cannot digest the truth...no wonder you get down to little ad hominems and you think.. you have achieved much. You are definitely a lewanaye.

Now let me ask you a question? Did your tribe exist before 1000 AD? .. Isn't it is Qais Abdur Rashid.. that all Pashtuns tribes trace back their lineage too.. Didn't he accept Islam? LOL..If he was a muslim.. then his sons must have been muslims..and all his sons must have passed the religion down to their sons... Isn't that how religion and culture is passed down?

Even, if you can show us some tribes that were pagan..hindu.. It still doesn't change the fact that we are all descended of Qais Abdur Rashid...who was a Muslim... Durranis..Hotakis..Kakars...MOhammadzai.. can all trace back their lineage to him..

It doesn't matter what pashtuns were before 1000 AD.. if it does..then the onus is on you to prove and show us which of the tribes that exist now.. existed back then.. and whether they were pagan.. hindu..kafir..

See, I just proved that you and soldout khamir are both...deviant outkasts..who are social rejects in Afghan/Pashtun Society..

[JAMALUDEEN]

my background is Hanafi Sunni, but I dont believe in religion. Im a sooooch kafir

I advocate strict Islamic law for Afghanistan as that is what is needed to

- reinforce law and order
- unite various ethnicities and tribes under one identity
- reclaim authentic interpretations of Islam from the jahiliya of the Taliban
- allow legitimacy for the Afghan govt
- convince militants to give up the guns

Religion is a tool to control the masses. I would use Islam to make sure everyone gets in line.

Of course, if I was leader, I wouldnt make it be publicly known that I was a non believer

Yes, Afghanistan needs a gun clapper of the highest order. I disagree with your assessment of education, although judging from the looting behaviour of most of the "technocrats" who currently make up the afghan govt I dont fault you for your pessimism

Afghanistan cannot be pushed into modernity, it needs to be slightly nudged bit by bit. Thats why the Khalqis and Amanullah were useless losers

your views sound as dumb as a murderer who wishes.. capital punishment to be reinstated for murder....in a western country