Ask an American, agnostic and atheist man pretty much anything

[RevolutionThroughReason]

are you going to pretend that. as a child who was forcefed a religion, you, as an atheist, agnostic whatever, have in no way been influenced by your childhood conditioning and rules and laws of the basically, christian society you live in?

So based on this I was right, you were raised a Christian since your society and cultural upbringing was Christian.

Thanks for giving me proof.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

It appears she believes you only need evidence to back up things she disagrees with. The rest she seems to think falls under her misuse of the term 'open mind'.

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Yep Faye is doing what they call "Cherry Picking". she only accepts things which supports her arguments and reject things that don't.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

This is a common problem I run into -- this false dichotomy. They assume that either something is created with the help of a creator, or it is not. They are unable to even consider that their may be a mix -- what we understand through natural means *can* be caused by natural means, without disproving a creator, it just shows no creator was needed for that specific event.

Exactly; Deists believe that there was an Intelligent Creator in the BEGINNING but then everything else formed by natural prorcesses.

My hypothesis (and I use the word hypothesis very casually here) is that There is an Intelligent Cause and this Intelligent Cause is active As we speak since General Relativity surmises that time is related to space.

I however am not claiming this is irrefutable or a cold-case position. I don't take it as a given that complex things need to be designed by an intelligent source automatically. I recognize the faulty logic in assuming that.

[ډګروال]

Exactly; Deists believe that there was an Intelligent Creator in the BEGINNING but then everything else formed by natural prorcesses.

My hypothesis (and I use the word hypothesis very casually here) is that There is an Intelligent Cause and this Intelligent Cause is active As we speak since General Relativity surmises that time is related to space.

I however am not claiming this is irrefutable or a cold-case position. I don't take it as a given that complex things need to be designed by an intelligent source automatically. I recognize the faulty logic in assuming that.

in other words you are an agnotic.

[ozymandias]

So based on this I was right, you were raised a Christian since your society and cultural upbringing was Christian.

Thanks for giving me proof.

I would argue that there is a huge difference between being brought up in a predominately Christian culture, and being brought up Christian. It is possible for parents, who exert a huge amount of influence on a child, to raise them differently.

[ozymandias]

in other words you are an agnotic.

Not true at all. This post does not address his stance on provability at all. It just shows that he is some from of deist, and thus a theist. He may still possibly be a gnostic theist.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

in other words you are an agnotic.

how so?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I would argue that there is a huge difference between being brought up in a predominately Christian culture, and being brought up Christian. It is possible for parents, who exert a huge amount of influence on a child, to raise them differently.

well let's be consistent, Faye is of European background, historically most Europeans who went to Australia had come from a background that adopted some manner of Christianity , protestant, catholic, lutheran what have you.

the odds are, she's is by cultural upbringing a Christian, even if she doesn't identify with it now.

[ډګروال]

Not true at all. This post does not address his stance on provability at all. It just shows that he is some from of deist, and thus a theist. He may still possibly be a gnostic theist.

wrong

someone cant be a muslim and agnostic at the same time.

to be muslim one needs to believe that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad(pbuh) is his massenger.

when you doubt the existince of Allah(swt) than you arent a muslim.

[کیش]

I'm still waiting for the conclusion of no-god, by using your own theories. I don't want to hear back Isaac Newton's and Albert Einstein's (both believed in god) findings.


If your bold enough to deny God's existence, you must be clever enough to proof it yourself without relying on other peoples work and findings.

[ozymandias]

wrong

someone cant be a muslim and agnostic at the same time.

That has nothing to do with this. His post implied he was deist, not Muslim.

That said, it is very possible to believe in a god, but to believe that there is no way to prove that faith. Most religious people I know value faith over knowledge, anyway.

to be muslim one needs to believe that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad(pbuh) is his massenger.

I agree. Agnostics theists can believe that and still be agnostic.

when you doubt the existince of Allah(swt) than you arent a muslim.

Agnostic is not the same as atheist.

[ozymandias]

I'm still waiting for the conclusion of no-god, by using your own theories.

Why wait? I've responded to this multiple times. Scroll back and read my responses.

I don't want to hear back Isaac Newton's and Albert Einstein's (both believed in god) findings.

What does their faith have to do with anything? So what that Einstien was a Spinozian Deist?

If your bold enough to deny God's existence, you must be clever enough to proof it yourself without relying on other peoples work and findings.

Except for that whole 'agnostic' part of my personal description. Look up that word, and come back. It's ok. We will wait.

Asking an agnostic to prove that god doesn't exist is like asking a Muslim to prove that the Jews are right, and Mohammad was wrong -- it's just a silly request to begin with.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

wrong

someone cant be a muslim and agnostic at the same time.

to be muslim one needs to believe that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad(pbuh) is his massenger.

when you doubt the existince of Allah(swt) than you arent a muslim.

CommodeofEmpires; calm down; catch a deep breath, Nothing in my post said anything about being an agnostic.

I said my hypothesis is that there is an intelligent creator; but that' doesn't mean what I'm saying is right. I could be wrong, we all could be. Just because you believe something doesn't mean it is the truth

[کیش]

Why wait? I've responded to this multiple times. Scroll back and read my responses.

What does their faith have to do with anything? So what that Einstien was a Spinozian Deist?

Except for that whole 'agnostic' part of my personal description. Look up that word, and come back. It's ok. We will wait.

Asking an agnostic to prove that god doesn't exist is like asking a Muslim to prove that the Jews are right, and Mohammad was wrong -- it's just a silly request to begin with.

Oh wow what a horrible response, if you answered it multiple times, answer again within your own logic. Your running away from answering this question.

Jews were right so what Muhammad. Jews being Moses, of course and not the ones who are today.

Einstein and Newton faith are important because you follow their findings yet have allergies against god. Must be from a bad childhood experience?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Oh wow what a horrible response, if you answered it multiple times, answer again within your own logic. Your running away from answering this question.

Jews were right so what Muhammad. Jews being Moses, of course and not the ones who are today.

isn't the correct logic what should matter here?