will non muslim go to heaven?

[yassir]

I hope I am in heaven.

[Laila]

Re: will non muslim go to heaven?

I love how Zakir Naik is very straight forward. He comes up with good answers and he knows how to back up his answers. Its amazing how he has the holy books of different religions memorized.

btw, i am bad with his accent, i can never understand him the first time :P

[Dukemina]

Re: will non muslim go to heaven?

^Fropessor Sahib, shtap making pun of Indian agreezi when we ourselpes have our own unique way op speakin :p

I love Zakir Naik - he has this way about him that doesn't let anyone put him down Bravo!

[Roshina]

Re: will non muslim go to heaven?

Oh God. Not him again, lol. I can't stand this guy. He thinks he's SO logical, but he's yet to prove himself logical to me.

I mean, c'mon. According to him, non-Muslims are NOT allowed to practice their religion (especially by building churches/synagogues/temples/etc.) in MUSLIM countries -- yet, Muslims have the RIGHT to practice Islam and build mosques and preach Islam in non-Muslim countries. :? This is supposed to make sense to him!

His logic? This: "Suppose that you are a principle of a school and you need to hire a new math teacher. Now, suppose you have two candidates, one of whom says that 1+1 = 2 and the other of whom thinks that 1+1 = 3. Aren't you gonna hire the one who says 1+1 = 2?"
:| Um, duh?

Then he says, "Exactly. Now, we Muslims KNOW religion; we KNOW God; we KNOW the TRUE Path of God. So why should we let non-Muslims teach their religions to us or practice their religions in Muslim countries when WE are on the correct path?"

(I found the link to that video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jYUL7eBdHg)

I honestly don't understand what kind of a Muslim -- human! -- is going to buy this "logic" :S I don't understand the Muslims who even listen to this guy. I listen to him only when I need a good laugh, really, because he makes no sense almost all of the time.

And the Muslims who claim him as a scholar of Islam? Oh my, that's really disturbing because what have we become if we see people like HIM as scholars of *Islam*, paragons of virtue and respect and SCHOLARSHIP?

[Roshina]

Re: will non muslim go to heaven?

As for whether non-Muslims are gonna go to heaven or not, there are many opinions, and much has been written on the matter; and theologians, scholars, and jurists have yet to agree on a pure "yes" or "no" to the question. I don't think it's wise to settle for the answer of just one person and ignore other opinions. There's evidence in the Quran that they WILL go to heaven, and then there's evidence that they will NOT go to heaven -- and that only *pious, good, practicing Muslims will go to heaven, not even just ANY Muslim.*

So, remember that there's too much disagreement on the matter, and it's hard to decide whose views are most close to "correct."

I'd like to ask a question of those who think non-Muslims will fry in hell for not believing in God or not practicing Islam and so on. Do we expect all people in the world to be Muslims? Why so? And, more importantly, HOW so? We seem to expect THEM to study Islam and then accept it without questioning it, but how many of us are willing to study THEIR religions? How dare we expect them to accept and embrace our religion when we would NEVER think of embracing THEIR religion? Most Muslims, we all know, are *born* into Muslim families are then inevitably raised Muslims; those Muslims don't choose Islam, although they might grow up and study Islam and realize that they appreciate Islam and are glad they're Muslim upon having studied it. (They may also choose to leave it after studying it, as many do). Doesn't that make us "lucky" or "blessed" for having been born into Muslim families?... And if we're "blessed" for having been BORN Muslims, are the non-Muslims who were born non-Muslims and choose not to accept Islam "cursed" for not having been born into Muslim families? Sure, they have the option of CHOOSING Islam, but we also have the option of choosing other religions besides Islam. But has the thought of accepting another religion EVER crossed our (Muslims') minds? If not, how dare we expect it to cross non-Muslims' minds?

Ultimately, non-Muslims are going to the hell of the Muslims, and Muslims are going to the hell of the non-Muslims who believe in it. Simple.

[Roshina]

Re: will non muslim go to heaven?

The man has memorized so may books, he can give examples left and right. For someone with faith, he is quite logical.

Memorization doesn't make one knowledgeable or a scholar. If you think it does, I strongly disagree. It's understanding that does. He has memorized and he's read, but he's not understood anything at all.

He is also the president of IRF.

So?

He bases what he says on the Quran.

I don't disagree that what he says is based on the Quran, but we need to realize the fact that the Quran can be interpreted in many, many different ways; I refuse to settle for his interpretation or just any in particularly. His doesn't make sense to me at all -- and it doesn't to many others. (No, that doens't mean that just because it doesn't make sense to me or others, then he's for SURE on the wrong. It just means the guy doesn't make much sense.)

He has made famous scholars look like kids, so I think he knows what he is talking about.

Which famous scholars would those be? I always hear this. But even I -- and I'm not knowledgeable or anything at ALL! -- can refute his claims. I'd be completely surprised if people considered "famous scholars" can be silenced by him or be made fools in front of him.

Cause uneducated people might fall for it. If a christian visits a poor villages and offers money to convert, they will convert probably.

Because uneducated people might fall for non-Muslim ideologies? What about when un-educated non-Muslims fall for Muslim ideologies? Of course the poor people will convert if they're offered services, like decent hospitals, schools/universities, etc.
What he's doing is purely converting people without making them think. We Muslims today seem FAR more focused on converting non-Muslims to Islam than learning, than being good humans and good practicing Muslims and bettering our communities. We seem to have ignored the problems that our societies have and are more interested in the good deeds and blessings we'll "earn" by converting people to our faith! This is what we have become and nothing more.

Zakir Naik instills fear in them such that they are like "oh God, I don't wanna go to hell! I am gonna convert RIGHT NOW." that's not how conversion is supposed to work. One needs to *study* Islam (from more than one side, through more than one scholar, using more than one source), and then decide for her/himself that, yeah, okay this religion works, or no, this religion doesn't work.

Other religions should be studied as well. Forbidding the construction of churches, etc. only proves how insecure one's faith is. And Zakir Naik says that's forbidden! Why?
My point in bringing up his "logic" was this: He thinks Muslims SHOULD practice Islam in non-Muslim countries, but non-Muslims can't practice THEIR religion in Muslim countries :S How fair is this?

Yet, when Muslims are forbidden from practicing Islam in a non-Muslim countries, we raise a hell, and fight for "justice"... and we forget that Zakir Naik out there is preaching to us, reminding us, that non-Muslims are FORBIDDEN in Islam to build temples and churches and such in Muslim lands and that, while WE are encouraged to preach to non-Muslims, non-Muslims cannot preach to us.

Double standards. A scholar doesn't use double standards to defend her/his claims.

Scholars are scared to debate with him and I mean, lets be frank he is quite educated and intelligent and a new face for Islamic debates.

Na, I don't see this guy as intelligent at ALL. I have yet to find an intelligent person to whom Zakir Naik's views make sense. Most of my Islamic Studies professors don't even know about him, and when I introduce Naik to them by showing them some of his videos and lectures, we end up holding a 3-hour discussion on the lectures he gives. So, when you say "scholars" I need to know exactly who you are referring to.

WHICH scholars are scared of having a debate with him? I'm not a scholar by any means, yet even *I* am willing to debate with him.

I am sorry but I disagree and I challenge your views, Feel free to post your rebuttal.

NEVER apologize for disagreeing with anyone, Achakzia! Never. It is mostly when we disagree with each other that we find room for discussions and dialogues and learn from each other.

It seems like you are trying to hide that he has contributed a ton to Islam, how many non Muslims has he converted. He doesnt have to be giving dawaas you know. He is a doctor.

Are we judging a person's knowledge by how many people he has converted? I've seen his lectures. I know how many people he has converted. But I can also guarantee you that MOST of those people who convert will leave Islam the moment they actually hear other views about Islam -- BY Muslim and BY scholars.

Compare him to classical scholars of Islam, who studied philosophy/logic, medicine, religions (like ALL religions practically, not just Islam), and a plethora of other subjects. THAT's what you call a scholar. No, I'm not saying everyone should study medicine and all other fields, since obviously today, the standards for scholarship are different than they were back then. But our scholars of the past studied and studied and studied and they THOUGHT and questioned and analyzed the views of others before shunning them as "un-Islamic" ... what's Zakir doing?

And he's a doctor -- physician doctor, that is. His life didn't revolve around studying Islam until I think early 90s or late 80s, yeah? And guess who inspired him -- Ahmed Deedat. Have you studied Ahmed Deedat's works? Look into it some time.

(By the way, Zakir Naik doesn't even consider himself a scholar. I was so relieved to hear him say that. And it wasn't out of modesty: his lack of scholarship is obvious in his lectures and "logic.")

nice meeting you by the way, no hard feelings.

No, never any hard feelings Nice meeting you as well! I, too, look forward to learning from you and sharing with you the little knowledge I may possess!

[Palwasha]

Re: will non muslim go to heaven?

I think Dr Zakir Naik is a bit of a legend, never loses a debate and is extremely intelligent. He know's exactly what he's on about and raises some great points.

He knows more about other peoples religions than they do themselves. There was this one debate with Doctor William Campbell which was interesting, who was proven to be way outta his depth and couldn't reply to Naik.

I do also agree that sometime's he's ever so slightly, difficult to understand, not his fault though.

[Roshina]

Re: will non muslim go to heaven?

He bases what he says on the Quran.

Really? The Quran tells us that Jews and Christians and the "Sabians" will go to heaven: "Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62).

So, not just Jews, Christians, Sabians, and Muslims, but also those who "believe in Allah and the last day and does good."

If he REALLY knew his stuff, his ultimate answer would've been: "We're not sure. Some verses of the Quran imply that only good, pious, practicing Muslims will go to heaven; others imply that non-Muslims, along with Jews and Christians and Sabians, who do good and believe in Allah and the last day will go to heaven, too."

Sure, he cites SOME verses of the Quran, but he completely ignore those that contradict his final conclusion. Why is that? I've noted this happening in pretty much ALL of his articles and lectures.

And also, we need to understand the difference between *disbelief* and *unbelief*.

Please, someone tell me who this guy has won debates with and which *scholars* have lost debates with him! And on which topics! Where were those scholars educated? What did they study? What is their expertise? Who were their teachers?

This John Campbell, please give me a link to either read or watch the "debate" that took place between them. And do we know what Campbell's expertise is? Did what he and Naik debate over have anything to do with his expertise?

And he knows more about the religion of the *average* people -- just like non-Muslims who study Islam know more about our religion that we ourselves (us normal, average folks) do. No? Try having your average Muslim take a class with a World Religions expert professor, and try holding a talk with this professor and see how much he enlightens you about Islam.

[Palwasha]

Re: will non muslim go to heaven?

This John Campbell, please give me a link to either read or watch the "debate" that took place between them. And do we know what Campbell's expertise is? Did what he and Naik debate over have anything to do with his expertise?

William Campbell

I don't know for sure what his exact area of expertise is in, but I think it's in comparative religion.

I'll find the videos and link you InshAllah.

[Palwasha]

Re: will non muslim go to heaven?

Okay so this is the best I could find, it's late and although I don't really wanna sleep, I suppose I must.

It's kinda long-ish and in many parts, it's also in a playlist and is in good quality.

Hope it's InshAllah of benefit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcKZnmBn ... 2B&index=0

[Roshina]

Re: will non muslim go to heaven?

The Quran and the Bible in the Light of Science?

There are a million books written on this topic. All Campbell and Naik would have to do is read those and refute any arguments presented in there.

You see, whenever we're discussing what Holy Books (e.g., Quran, Bible, the Vedas, etc.) say about science -- or about ANYTHING, for that matter -- we must keep a vital point in mind: We are interpreting the text.

Over the last couple of decades, the net has been flooded with information about *scientific miracles in the Quran*. Very few of us read those "miracles" with a critical mind, and more than most of us accept them as "miracles" as we read them. No doubt the Quran discusses these topics that were not discussed, at least thoroughly, during the time of the Prophet (pbuh). BUT! have you noted the parentheses in the translated texts of the Quran, guys? What I'm longing to know is ... when we didn't know what a certain (scientific) concept, theory, or even a term was until recently, how did we say it in the Quran? The language of the Quran is such that most words can mean hundreds of different things, and so, HONESTLY, it seems to me that whenever a new scientific discovery is made, we turn to the Quran and *look* for that idea in the Quran! And we CAN find it. How? Depending on how we read the Quran -- hence how the Quran is interpreted and by whom.

If you read the literal words of the Quran, the original Arabic text of the Quran, you'll notice something: it's not specific at all. These millions of miracles we are told exist in the Quran, may or MAY NOT be miracles depending on how we read the Quran. Try reading it a ton of times and then see if it's actually as clear as these people make it: it's actually not. Even the translations aren't that clear.

Besides, we go, "OMG! Look, another miracle in the Quran! God told us this 1400 years ago, and look, these silly Christians/non-Muslims only JUST discovered! tsk, tsk. All they had to do was read the Quran, and they wouldn't have had to work so hard. tsk, tsk." Oh yeah? But guess who "discovered" them and who "didn't

So, who else has "lost" a debate to Zakir Naik? Which other "scholars" are afraid of holding a debate with him? I REALLY need to know! This is too fascinating for me to ignore -- someone's AFRAID of Zakir Naik?! All the scholars of the world must have lost their brain if this is the case, really.

(No offense to anyone who loves Zakir Naik; I just fail to see where this guy's logic lies in ANYTHING!)

[Roshina]

Re: will non muslim go to heaven?

^ You can change words but not sentences that have a meaning to it.

You can never change words, actually, but you can very easily change translations and interpretations.

[*Mahzala*]

Re: will non muslim go to heaven?

Who succeeds and who fails in the next world, that knowledge lies with Allah alone. Lets not attempt at guessing the Unseen.

There is clear-cut evidence in the Quran in this regard. I have a lenghty, yet very informative article on this topic, if you are interested I can send it to you. I dont want to paste it here, as its length will put many off, and the message will go down the drain.

[Roshina]

Re: will non muslim go to heaven?

Who succeeds and who fails in the next world, that knowledge lies with Allah alone. Lets not attempt at guessing the Unseen.

I agree that only God knows for sure who's going to hell and who's going to heaven, and I believe that our talks on who CAN and who CAN'T go to hell/heaven are futile.

There is clear-cut evidence in the Quran in this regard. I have a lenghty, yet very informative article on this topic, if you are interested I can send it to you. I dont want to paste it here, as its length will put many off, and the message will go down the drain.

You can send me the whole article; it'd be great.
BUT do share here the Quranic verses that tell us exactly if non-Muslims will be allowed in heaven or not. That'll be of much use for the readers, ka khairee.