Similarity between Sufism and Manichaeism!

[Maiwand]

Manichaeism (pronounced /ˈmænɨkiː.ɪzəm/;[1] in Modern Persian آیین مانی Āyin e Māni; Chinese: 摩尼教; pinyin: Móní Jiào) was one of the major Iranian Gnostic religions, originating in Sassanid Persia. Manicheans/Manichees never adopted the name for themselves (in the same way that "pagans" were so called by others).[citation needed] Although most of the original writings of the founding prophet Mani (in Persian: مانی, Syriac: ܡܐܢܝ, Latin: Manichaeus or Manes) (c. 216–276 AD) have been lost, numerous translations and fragmentary texts have survived. Manichaeism taught an elaborate cosmology describing the struggle between a good, spiritual world of light, and an evil, material world of darkness. Through an ongoing process which takes place in human history, light is gradually removed from the world of matter and returned to the world of light from which it came.

Now we see also how these gnostic concepts and idea's where introduced into islamic society and thought:

The Evangelion (Greek, Coptic: Ευαγγελιον, meaning roughly "good news"): Also known as the Gospel of Mani. Quotations from the first chapter were brought in Arabic by Ibn al-Nadim, who lived in Baghdad at a time when there were still Manichaeans living there, in his book the "Fihrist" (written in 938), a catalog of all written books known to him.

Organization of the Manichaean Church

The Manichaean Church was divided into "Elect" - those who had taken upon themselves the vows of Manicheaism, and "Hearers" - those who had not, but still participated in the Church. The terms for these divisions were already common since the days of early Christianity. In the Chinese writings, the Middle Persian and Parthian terms are transcribed phonetically (instead of being translated into Chinese).[25]

• The Leader, (Parthian: yamag; Chinese: 閻默) Mani's designated successor, seated at the head of the Church in Ctesiphon (Babylonia).
• 12 Apostles (Latin: magistri; Middle Persian: možag; Chinese: 慕闍)
• 72 Bishops (Latin: episcopi; Middle Persian: aspasag, aftadan; Chinese: 拂多誕; see also: Seventy Disciples)
• 360 Presbyters (Latin: presbyteri; Middle Persian: mahistan)
• The general body of the Elect (Latin: electi; Middle Persian: ardawan)
• The Hearers (Latin: auditores; Middle Persian: niyoshagan)

In Tasawwuf we learn:

• At any given time, there are 124000 Awliya living on Earth. They are not recognized by the general public. In fact, amongst them, one does not know the other depending on their spiritual rank, and some of them are themselves not aware of the validity of their actions and devotion.
• 300 from this group are statesman, involved in the administration of this world. They control all transactions that take place. They are known as the “Akhyaar”.
• Amongst these 300, 40 are known as “Abdaal”.
• Amongst the 40, 7 are “Abraar”.
• Amongst this 7, 4 are “Autaad”.
• Amongst these 4, 3 are “Noqabah”.
• From these 3, 1 is the “Ghaus” or “Qutub”. He is the most senior of them all, and head of the spiritual assembly.

Well the numbers are maybe different, but the structure and hierarchy is the same. You see that a totally unslamic and heritcal system is introduced in Islam and people are mislead by it. Here is more information about Manichaeism.


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[Dreamer]

are these the so called "Christians of St John?" though in fact they are not christians!

[Maiwand]

are these the so called "Christians of St John?" though in fact they are not christians!

they were influenced by all kinds of ideas, Zoroastrianism, christianity, pagan beliefs, budhism etc. Wikipedia has also lots of information about them. But my point is that sufism has taken a lot of concepts and idea's of them and incorporated them into islam, with the result that they have now made a totally heretical sect. They even have concepts like the hindu nirvana in them:

The concept of Nirvana is one of the many mystical ideas about the attainment of a perfect state of the soul or psyche, the construction within man of a “kingdom not of this world.” A special feature of the Buddhist and, to some extent, the Jain idea of Nirvana distinguishes them from the ideas of Christian mysticism, as well as from Manichaeism, Sufism, and Hindu concepts of “liberation.” (The Mahayana concept of Nirvana, however, is somewhat similar to these forms of mysticism and asceticism.) This distinguishing feature of the Buddhist and Jain ideas of Nirvana is their reliance on the individual’s own powers and their total dissociation of the attainment of Nirvana from the idea of the transcendent (god or the good). Thus, the postulate of the divine nature of the human being is affirmed. Absolute separation from everything external and the undeniable egocen-trism of many followers of Nirvana leads to their withdrawal from participation in the life of society.

[Dreamer]

they were influenced by all kinds of ideas, Zoroastrianism, christianity, pagan beliefs, budhism etc. Wikipedia has also lots of information about them. But my point is that sufism has taken a lot of concepts and idea's of them and incorporated them into islam, with the result that they have now made a totally heretical sect. They even have concepts like the hindu nirvana in them:

probably... I knew a "Christian of St John".... theres all sorts of weird sects and beliefs out there ... we have the Druze ... I feel they are far closer to sufies personally

[Dreamer]

ooops I was referring 2 the mandeans... they are the christians of St john!

[Mujib]

These are the results of Wikipedia research. If we would spend less time following politics and more time studying Islam (from its scholars, not Wikipedia), we would put forth more beneficial material.

There was a previous thread from brother Maiwand - "Sufism & Buddhism" - which seemed to attempt to show some link between Sufism and Buddhism. According to one of the videos posted in that thread, "The intertwining of Islam and Buddhism began quite early in the former's history, probably around 660."

The videos were followed by a series of articles on Buddhism from none other than the Harun Yahya website. Much of Harun Yahya's writings are inspired by Sufi scholars. He considers the great Sufis Shaykh al-Akbar Ibn `Arabi (ra) and Imam al-Rabbani (ra) to be two of the great scholars of Islam.

One should review the material of his "research" before putting it forward.

Well the numbers are maybe different, but the structure and hierarchy is the same.

Neither the numbers, nor structure, nor the stations, nor the meanings are the same. In fact, the only similarity is that they are both hierarchies, in which case any two hierarchies are similar. One could say the same of the state organisation of the Caliphate.

Furthermore, according to the Wikipedia article, the terms for the divisions in the organization of the Manichaean Church "were already common since the days of early Christianity." So why not just attribute it to Christianity and title your thread "Similarity between Sufism and Christianity"? Or does the name of a strange religion add more credance to the claim?

There are many similarities between Islam and other religions. Certain polemicists point to the similarities between Islam and Judaism and Christianity and claim that Islam took its teachings from them. These arguments amount to little. God has sent revelation to people before Islam, and though they are now corrupt, some truth does remain.

I advise you, brother, find qualified scholars and study your din.

[Catya Sher]

I think we can all learn more by examining the various traditions to understand what is really what. There will always be debate, but investigative study helps clarify.

Just a quick note about those "Christians of St John" - you mean, St John the Baptist. Most references to St John mean about a different one.

The Mandeans, also known as the Sabeans, venerate St John the Baptist above Jesus. They have ancient roots in Mesopotamia, and a small number are still there in Iraq.

Of course, the Western press, despite all the trillions of dollars they were allotted to dig up stories during the American occupation of Iraq, barely touched on them.
Showing how shallow the US interest in learning a thing about Iraq was !
They couldn't even bother to write up about Christians outside of the Assyrians...

There may have been a mention or two that I missed. I doubt, though, there was much coverage of this particular community.

This reveals how utterly uninterested the American home audience was and is in learning about anyone else, surprisingly, even a group from a Christian faith.
For, Evangelical Protestants and many other American Christians only care about Israel. Christian sects in Iraq? They couldn't care less.

Israel - not Middle Eastern Christians - is the cause they champion. No other groups matter.

This explains why the media obsessively covers every development in Israel - what the Israeli public thinks of this, believes about that, etc.

This is a fast aside. Back to discussion!

[Pakhtun_Policy]

Tasawwuf In Light Of Quran And Hadith (PASHTO KHITAB)

[Pakhtun_Policy]

I think Sufis need to set up a limit. Mujib, I know Sufis who write poetry about female Gods and most of it is erotic poetry. Why do they have to take that route? I have no harmful intentions.

Maybe you can give refrences to wich "Sufis" are writing poetry about female Gods ?

Astaghfirullah Naozubillah Manzalik.


A true Sufis toungue is moist with



La ilaha illallah !

[Wrayun]

Islam has similarities with Christianity, Judaisim, and other religions of the region... conspiracy by the Catholic church? There are some Christains who have written books on the subject i.e. how Islam is the invention of the Catholic church etc. They make the same parallels as you do.

Sufism is as much a cultural phenomenon as it is a religious one. The same with Salafism, it is as much of a cultural phenomenon as it is a religious one. I can draw similarities between the Salafis and the Mennonites. For example like the Amish.

Islam doesn't equate to Bedouinism. The bedouins can practice Islam as it fits their surrounding, environment and culture, and others will practice Islam as it fits theirs (as long as it doesn't contradict the Quran). Some bedouins want everyone to live like a bedouin, devoid of music, art, sports, spirituality and anything else that wasn't practice or isn't practiced by the bedouin. This means they completely disregard their heritage, and adopt bedouinism. The reason for that is that they view these things as cultural invasions (the view Islam as their personal culture), and to them their simplistic culture is superior to others. Yet the interesting thing is that Mohammad pbuh wasn't even a bedouin. He was born in the city of Mecca, and lived there for most of his life. Yet the religion of Islam is now hijacked by bedouins, who despise anything and everything that doesn't resemble them or their lifestyle. They still wear cloaks/keffiyeh where ever they go, though the cloak/keffiyeh use was to save them from sand, and extreme heat. They wear it even in areas where there is no sand, and normal weather, making it part of the "Sunnah", like the full covering niqab for Muslim women, thus making Islam their cultural expansionist tool.

Sufism was born after Islam encountered regions and peoples who had a very spiritual and mystic outlook on life. When Islam was introduced in these areas, people accommodated their existing spirituality into Islam. Therefore similarities are going to be there i.e. pre-Islamic heritage, because Islam is for all ages and people......not just Arabia and bediouns. That is why pre-Islamic Arabian culture exists in Islam = keffiyeh and niqabs. And they insist, it is part of the "religion".

[شمله ور خراساني]

A true Sufis toungue is moist with..

....spit of his shaikh and the water which the sheikh uses to wash his feet with.