Sufism: Deviant Sites

[شمله ور خراساني]

[Wrayun]

I have a few questions for this bright lad.

The Prophets and companions didn't use cameras, voice recorders, and the internet (all of which are kaafir innovations), what justification/haadiths does he to justify their use?

Before I get a reply that these things even though are used to produce "haram", it is the intent here which is halal, that justify their use.....now how is that different than using something like tasbee, or counting up to 2 million?

Ludicrous nonsense.

[شمله ور خراساني]

I have a few questions for this bright lad.

The Prophets and companions didn't use cameras, voice recorders, and the internet (all of which are kaafir innovations), what justification/haadiths does he to justify their use?

Before I get a reply that these things even though are used to produce "haram", it is the intent here which is halal, that justify their use.....now how is that different than using something like tasbee, or counting up to 2 million?

Ludicrous nonsense.

This is a stupid question. Because in Islam we have the concept of Ibadat and Mu'amalat.

Computer and cameras are not ibadat. So when one speaks of innovation in Islam, it refers to innovating ibadat. Not mu'amalat.


Instead of all the talking on PF, I suggest you go and study more. It wont hurt you.

Start off by listening to this talk:

http://www.pashtunforums.com/religio...el-islam-8029/

[Wrayun]

This is a stupid question. Because in Islam we have the concept of Ibadat and Mu'amalat.

Computer and cameras are not ibadat. So when one speaks of innovation in Islam, it refers to innovating ibadat. Not mu'amalat.


Instead of all the talking on PF, I suggest you go and study more. It wont hurt you.

Start off by listening to this talk:

http://www.pashtunforums.com/religio...el-islam-8029/

So you don't use innovations like loud speakers, computers, recorders, youtube, the internet for ibadaat? Tasbee is an instrument, just like these tools, used for ibadaat in the same manner.

My problem is that the hypocrisy of some of these Salafis is blinding, to the point that they have made Islam repulsive for many. One such hypocrisy of the Salafi is that they live in Western countries, where they pay taxes, and those taxes are "interests", collected by the respected states which are then used to promote all sort of things that are considered "vices" in Islam according to them. Yet, they have no problem doing that. Reminds me of my own local masjid Salafi sheikh, a very nice guy, who used to preach to everyone if they should leave the kufaar countries and go back to Muslim lands. Yet himself being a plumber in America for the past 25 years, could not make such a decision. Not that he is a poor man, showed us his huge house he had in Saudi, his wife and kids, yet, America is just too sweet to let go.

[شمله ور خراساني]

So you don't use innovations like loud speakers, computers, recorders, youtube, the internet for ibadaat? Tasbee is an instrument, just like these tools, used for ibadaat in the same manner.

My problem is that the hypocrisy of some of these Salafis is blinding, to the point that they have made Islam repulsive for many. One such hypocrisy of the Salafi is that they live in Western countries, where they pay taxes, and those taxes are "interests", collected by the respected states which are then used to promote all sort of things that are considered "vices" in Islam according to them. Yet, they have no problem doing that. Reminds me of my own local masjid Salafi sheikh, a very nice guy, who used to preach to everyone if they should leave the kufaar countries and go back to Muslim lands. Yet himself being a plumber in America for the past 25 years, could not make such a decision. Not that he is a poor man, showed us his huge house he had in Saudi, his wife and kids, yet, America is just too sweet to let go.

You know whats repulsive? Your nonsense.

Obviously you have no valid argument to bring forwa. So you dramatize on and on about irrelevant matters.

[unknownprince]

Actually most of todays technology was made by the great Japanese company called Sony. The Japanese Samurais have a great culture, they are not kafir.

Many in Japan are also converting to Islam. It is growing there. Google it.
Ok back to the topic at hand.

[Wrayun]

You know whats repulsive? Your nonsense.

Obviously you have no valid argument to bring forwa. So you dramatize on and on about irrelevant matters.

herp derp nonsense!

Actually most of todays technology was made by the great Japanese company called Sony. The Japanese Samurais have a great culture, they are not kafir.

Many in Japan are also converting to Islam. It is growing there. Google it.
Ok back to the topic at hand.

Japan is the largest atheist nation on the planet. With the Westerners Salafis at least get away with that whole "people of the book" argument..for example it's okay to buy butchered meat from them, they are people of the book. It is also okay to dine in KFC and Carl's Junior, they are halal, people of the book.

The Japanese are not even people of the book. They are worse in fact, mushriks and atheists.


btw, me big fan of Jap culture, arigato! (failed the subject big time tho haha)

[Haneef]

You know whats repulsive? Your nonsense.

Obviously you have no valid argument to bring forwa. So you dramatize on and on about irrelevant matters.

owned again, you get raped daily in terms of your knowledge, yet you still don't learn

[Haneef]

This guy is a moron, making fun of Islam rocks, go see Al Maghrib, the salafi so called 'scholar' with a 4 yr degree Muhammad Al shareef uses the word "rock" enough..he should condemn him to hell before anyone else.

[Maiwand]

So you don't use innovations like loud speakers, computers, recorders, youtube, the internet for ibadaat? Tasbee is an instrument, just like these tools, used for ibadaat in the same manner.

My problem is that the hypocrisy of some of these Salafis is blinding, to the point that they have made Islam repulsive for many. One such hypocrisy of the Salafi is that they live in Western countries, where they pay taxes, and those taxes are "interests", collected by the respected states which are then used to promote all sort of things that are considered "vices" in Islam according to them. Yet, they have no problem doing that. Reminds me of my own local masjid Salafi sheikh, a very nice guy, who used to preach to everyone if they should leave the kufaar countries and go back to Muslim lands. Yet himself being a plumber in America for the past 25 years, could not make such a decision. Not that he is a poor man, showed us his huge house he had in Saudi, his wife and kids, yet, America is just too sweet to let go.

I agree with your last part of the text. The prophet (pbuh) has said that muslims shouldn't remain for a long time midst the mushrikeen, it is forbidden in Islam. Only if you do Dawaa or are temporary there, then it is allowed. Otherwise it is totally forbidden, one must make Hijra.

[Dust]

^Thank you for acknowledging Wrayun's post for what it was.

Maiwand, where do you live?

[Dust]

Shimlah,

with all due respect, you can't say that someone has a pathetic argument without pin-pointing what is so pathetic about it.

My friend, if you can't counter an argument properly, then it probably means that the argument is strong and that perhaps you need to change your stance.

[Dust]

^Are you serious?

[شمله ور خراساني]

Shimlah,

with all due respect, you can't say that someone has a pathetic argument without pin-pointing what is so pathetic about it.

My friend, if you can't counter an argument properly, then it probably means that the argument is strong and that perhaps you need to change your stance.

You said elsewhere that you are a scholar. A scholar in what exactly? because I am curious to know in which academic discipline they teach people to be so smart to demand such silly stuff as what you are demanding.

Everytime someone says something stupid I should feel obliged to rectify them otherwise I am wrong by default and my arguments are weak?

I want to obtain a scholars title as well. Where did you get it. It seems it was given to you when you purchased a sports magazine or a sandwich.

And for the sake of argument: I did answer Wrayun. He asked if electronics is innovation, if so then why are Muslims using modern electronics. I replied to him by saying that electronics is not ibadat ( acts of worship). They are mu'amalat ( common matters).

There is a ban in innovating acts of worship in Islam. Suppose I listen to recitation of Quran in my car with an mp3 player. Is the act of worship, which is listening to recitation of quran changed in any sense since I listen to a recorded session? No. The act of worship still remains the same.

Similarly, suppose I read a PDF version of quran instead of a book or a leather scroll. Is the act of worship here innovated? No. Because the act of worship still is the same thing. There is nothing new about it.


Allah says in the quran that he has perfected our religion. And the verse was revealed when the prophet muhammad saww was still alive. So the religion was perfected.

Therefore we are not allowed to add more stuff to relgion that did not existed before.

I am always amazed at people who claim to love philosophy. You lot (including wrayun) are the ones who claim philosophy is beneficial. Yet, logic which is one of the essential disciplines in philosophy appears to be rocket science to you people.

[شمله ور خراساني]

owned again, you get raped daily in terms of your knowledge, yet you still don't learn

The little poem written in your signature was composed by an alcoholic. Did you know that? And it is kufr to add new stuff to the pillars of imaan.