Sufi versus salafi concept of God

[Toramana]

To a Salafi/Wahabi/Deobandi, God is apart from nature/universe extremly violent, volatile, and curmudgeon with human attributes that can roast you alive if you anger him or can lavishly reward you if you appease him (he is like a worldly king).

Sufis see the manifestation of God in universe and its "plurality and unity at the same time" i.e., all things are linked in one whole but at the same time are distinct and diverse as well...The diversity springs from unity and then again disolves into unity. That is why sufis are more universalistic and benign.

The panthiestic view on which sufi-ism is based has a deeper philosophy.

[Shamaar]

I agree, although I want to add that most proper Sufis preach the message of love above all else. They preach that in order to serve Allah (SWT) and get closer to Him, you must have love in your heart and serve mankind. Those kinds of things...

[eccentric]

I am not sure to which am I belonging to. I believe that God is neighter apart of Universe nor a part of Nature. He created universe, which includes the nature. I think that I can't get close to God even by Namaz. The rituel is a duty and just remind me that a God exist. Nothing more.

[Dust]

Now this is what I call a topic.

Thanks Toramana.

[Abu Hurayrah]

The ''modern'' sufis have this idea of God which is full of concepts of the pre-Islamic thinking, or totally focusing on the ilm al kalaam and ignoring all the rest, and doing this, in a wrong fasion , or one which is influenced by Western theology. And more or less, wahdatul Wujud, claiming that God is everywhere. Which is absolutely un-Islamic.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Sufi concept of god is their inner self. They believe that god is inside their body. And they claim to be divine.

This is why Sufism is not Islam.

[Mujib]

The panthiestic view on which sufi-ism is based has a deeper philosophy.

The belief that every creature of God deserves some degree of respect, and the belief that God the Creator is manifest through His creation, are part of the beliefs of Islam and hence Sufism.

As for the belief that the universe and God are identical (which is how Pantheism is defined), then this is contrary to Islamic doctrine and hence Sufism.

See Pantheism Contradicts Islamic Belief.

[Mujib]

The ''modern'' sufis have this idea of God which is full of concepts of the pre-Islamic thinking

This seems like an attempt to level a false charge against Sufism, while at the same time acknowledging Sufism by claiming an "old" and a "modern" Sufism.

Sufism is not a school of tenets of faith (`aqida). It is a science (`ilm) within traditional Islam; and in traditional Islam the two schools of `aqida are the Maturidi and Ash`ari schools, to which Sufis, like the vast majority of Muslims for over a thousands years, belong.

And more or less, wahdatul Wujud, claiming that God is everywhere. Which is absolutely un-Islamic.

Wahdat al-Wujud does not mean God is everywhere. We shouldn't speak on something we do not understand.

[Mujib]

Sufi concept of god is their inner self. They believe that god is inside their body. And they claim to be divine.

This is absolutely false. Such a belief is categorically rejected by Sufism. The great Sufi master, Imam Ibn `Ata' Illah (ra) said: "Your reaching Allah is your reaching the knowledge of Him, for other than that, Our Lord is too exalted for anything to be joined with Him or for Him to be joined with anything" (Reliance of the Traveller).

[muhsina]

The loosers and slave minded mobs in muslim history when failed to face the challenges of science and technology opted to adopt marijuana which could not only justify their inert response to the challenges of times but also intellectulised their response to such challanges attract others of their kind.

Pantheists [hama oost] said that "Everyhting is God" and Mansoor Hallaj was so impresssed with this idea that he accepted death. Ibne Arabi intellectulised the philosophy and proved how Pantheism is the only way to know unltimate reality. His "Futohat -e- Makkiyah" and "Fusoos-ul-Hukkm" are the authorities on his philosophy. Later it was Shaik Ahmed Sirhindi who opposed the interpretation and called it Wahdatul wajood ,meaning that the universe is a shadow of God not his essence. Shah waliullah then proved that in reality both the schools of Wahdatul wajood and wahdatul shahood are the same and interpreted the concept of wahdatul wajood and shahood by saying that it is the highest form of Tawheed [Oneness of God] in his book "Tafheematay Ilahiaya". He interpreted that Wahdatul wajood means Tauheed fil wajood which means ' la majood illa llah" [translation:There is no one existent other than God or Only God exists].

In my opinion the reality of universe and any ultimate reality can ONLY be known with the help of Physics [Quantum Mechanics]. It is the true nature of matter and energy which if known will help us understand what reality is all about. The rest is just speculation.

[muhsina]

I am not sure to which am I belonging to. I believe that God is neighter apart of Universe nor a part of Nature. He created universe, which includes the nature. I think that I can't get close to God even by Namaz. The rituel is a duty and just remind me that a God exist. Nothing more.

Eccentric This is a concentric concept of god. The concept of "closeness" is related to material things [space time dependent]. God is assumed to be an abstract idea and everybody has different concept about abstract things.This means the concept of God is subjective which implies that God is not an objective reality.

[Abu Hurayrah]

Eccentric This is a concentric concept of god. The concept of "closeness" is related to material things [space time dependent]. God is assumed to be an abstract idea and everybody has different concept about abstract things.This means the concept of God is subjective which implies that God is not an objective reality.

I don't think all sufi's will agree with you. In the Islamic understanding, God is/has those attributes which he ascribed to him in the Qur'aan and what Muhammad (peace be upon him) told us. If anyone goes beyond those limits, it leads to your ''subjective concept'' full of nonsense.

In my opinion the reality of universe and any ultimate reality can ONLY be known with the help of Physics [Quantum Mechanics]. It is the true nature of matter and energy which if known will help us understand what reality is all about. The rest is just speculation.

Then I don't think there was use for the Qur'aan? Allah should have revealed a book on metaphysics and quantum mechanics instead. This is your understanding.
Mujib, I know the story. Unfortunately, in reality, it goes far behind this, its a very normative explanation you are giving.

[Mujib]

The concept of "closeness" is related to material things [space time dependent].

He does not refer to physical closeness.

God is assumed to be an abstract idea and everybody has different concept about abstract things.This means the concept of God is subjective which implies that God is not an objective reality.

God has revealed the truth concerning Himself in the Qur'an so that there is no need for abstract ideas. Nor does the existence of subjective ideas imply the nonexistence of the objective Reality. Man has held different ideas about the sun, yet the sun's reality cannot be denied.

[Zayam]

"Our dependence on outer satisfactions and requirements leads us to envy, resentment, pride, guilt and anger. Isn't this the contemporary Idolatry?"

In our selves we should sustain spiritual qualities such as: "love, generosity, patience, courage, humility, and wisdom, which are inclusive, encompassing, and transcendent. The ego is a crowded space filled with conflicting desires and thoughts."

We need to enter into a silent and empty place, and be still before our Lord. It is Allah that we need, not the idols the world has to offer.

[Shamaar]

Sufi concept of god is their inner self. They believe that god is inside their body. And they claim to be divine.

This is why Sufism is not Islam.

Bro, I just wanted to say that we as people can't really judge who falls under Islam and who doesn't.

If you look at the moral values in Western countries, things like paying taxes, honest business dealings, respect for others in many ways etc., these people are Muslims by action. Since they do not believe in Islam being the final religion of Allah they are not Muslims by hearts and minds.

Similarly, in our Muslims nations, the vast majority of the population will call themselves Muslim, but their actions will not show that. They think paying taxes is some kind of punishment (when in fact it is a form of sadqa), they often do not respect others, especially women etc.

So, taking these kinds of things into respect, I think we should stay away from deciding ourselves who falls under Islam and who doesn't. It is Allah's choice to decide that.