Purification of the Soul without the Modern heresy of Sufi innovators

[شمله ور خراساني]

Good we finally get a list of out of you.

1. I have never barked...I don't see it something I would do..
2. Dancing, I have never danced, some ppl do it, they have daleel, do you want to see this daleel?
3. boyloving is haram, let's talk about things that are halal man, dont' get carried away
4. Negating Allah's attributes? this has nothign to do with sufism but Aqeedah, can't you stay on topic? It's like we are discussing fish and you talk about tigers.
5. The rest have nothing to do with sufism....I think the only 2 were the first 2 which I knew you would state...the rest are just your rants..

Ok take away the first 2 aspects, what else is wrong with sufisM? Remeber there's no sufism w/o shariah...so all these haram things you mentioned are not part of "sufism". If you think they are, quote them from a book of a reliable scholar

Barking is a common practice among Sufis

Evidence:



Dancing is not allowed. The evidence Sufis provide is this:





This is their evidence.

And this is how they apply it:




If this is islam, and if the prophet sal allahu alayhi wasalam did allow this, how come other sahaba never danced?

Here is the refutation of dancing:






The fact is that modern sufis all negate attributes of allah and they are all neo-jahmites.

And everything else I mentioned relates to sufism. I have provided enough evidence for my claims in religion and politics section.

[Haneef]

I did not do that. So why are you falsely accusing me? You are the one who is pissed off and is complaining and demanding that no more articles should be posted.

And btw, Fakhrudin Razi declared people who worship graves as mushriks. He is the imam of Ash'aris. So why do you have a problem with me saying the same thing the imam of ash'aris said?

If people actually worship graves sure, but tawasul is not worship the grave, it is intercession. All 4 imams (madhabs) allow certain form of it, and even Ibn Tamiyyah classified it as a fiqh issue, not aqeedah. So on what basis do you call people grave worshippers? have some shame!

[Haneef]

ok Again, if we take away "barking" and dancing, what else do you have issues with from Ahl-e-tasawuf? do not bring aqeedah or other childish things into this..be clear, this is your chance to shine.

[شمله ور خراساني]

ok Again, if we take away "barking" and dancing, what else do you have issues with from Ahl-e-tasawuf? do not bring aqeedah or other childish things into this..be clear, this is your chance to shine.

Why is aqeeda childish?

Sufis claim to have hidden knowledge. They use hadeeth of abu hurayrah radiallahu anhu as evidence to claim that there is hidden knowledge that only their sheikhs have.

And Sufis worship their sheikhs and claim that these charlatans can preform miracles such as these:

http://www.pashtunforums.com/religion-15/sufi-saint-preforming-miracle-shocking-disturbing-images-7318/

http://www.pashtunforums.com/religion-15/shocking-video-sufism-viewer-discretion-adviced-7317/

[شمله ور خراساني]

If people actually worship graves sure, but tawasul is not worship the grave, it is intercession. All 4 imams (madhabs) allow certain form of it, and even Ibn Tamiyyah classified it as a fiqh issue, not aqeedah. So on what basis do you call people grave worshippers? have some shame!

Tawassul is not same as grave worship. But the fact is that grave worship does exist. And sufism perpetuates it.

[شمله ور خراساني]

[شمله ور خراساني]

[Haneef]

Why is aqeeda childish?

Sufis claim to have hidden knowledge. They use hadeeth of abu hurayrah radiallahu anhu as evidence to claim that there is hidden knowledge that only their sheikhs have.

And Sufis worship their sheikhs and claim that these charlatans can preform miracles such as these:

http://www.pashtunforums.com/religio...g-images-7318/

http://www.pashtunforums.com/religio...-adviced-7317/

ok so besides the other 2 points, you say a 3rd point of contention is that Sufis believe their sheikhs can have hidden knowledge. But anyone can have hidden knowledge no? Can't Allah SWT provide knowledge of things to people through their dreams and other means? Be it a sufi or anyone? of course. I am not sure why you associate sufism with these "peer babas" of india etc, that's not the Sufism we speak of, that can be close to hinduism. The sufism we speak of is the sufism of the greats of the Ummah, from Ghazali to nawawai to suyuti (ra to all of them). These people who speak of sufism don't act like these peer baba wanna be hindus, like hamza yusuf, ninowi, etc etc..I have never seen them act this way. You are judging a whole science by a bunch of retards who want to prey on uneducated people in the name of "sufism", but that is not sufism at all, it's crappism.

Just because stupid people do things doesn't mean the science itself is wrong, people do stupid things under all names, under the banner of Islam, religion, democracy etc..

Again, it seems you have 2 points of contention, the Hadra and the group/loud dhirk.


Sufism perpetuates grave worship? Please show me which of the mainsteam ulama of Ahlal tasawful have written to their followers to worship graves? Can you quote me from their books? If not fear Allah, Ask for forgiveness, and take your shahada again, just to be sure.

[Khan Gul]

Unfortunately, although many of the original Sufi leaders were true, deep Muslims wholly devoted to God, who preached a pure Islam and followed the Shariah very strictly, in later times what passed for Sufism throughout the Muslim world became, in many cases, a mockery and distortion not only of the teachings of Islam but also of the original teachings of the foudners of the Sufi orders. In some parts of the Muslim world today, "Sufi" or "dervissh" connotes a ragged sa'in or qalandar with matted hair and beads, often engaging in para-normal practices, having the word "Allah" and pious phrases on his lips but without any shadow or substance of Islam in his way of life. The ignorant masses are easily taken in by such charlatans. They also flock to the tombs of pirs, shaykhs and walis, ask them to intercede for them with God, beg them to grant favors, and come very close to actually worshiping them, practices which are utterly condemned by Islam as being tantamount to associating others with God's divinity, which is considered the greatest of all sins and the lowest possible form of degradation.

Thus the true message of submission to God, striving to come near to Him, and attempting to purify the hearts of men which the original Sufis brought has in many cases become distorted, and in many respects the so-called "Sufism" has become a burden and a curse to the Muslim world, bringing people to the very border of man-worship and the pagan practices which Islam came to abolish. The true Sufis (Abdul Qader Jilani, Imam Ghazally, etc) always believed, taught and emphasized that there was no tariqat without the strictest obedience to the Islamic Shari'ah, that is, without very faithfully following the laws, injunctions and practices prescribed in the Holy Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh), both as relate to acts of worship (ibadat) and to practical matters (mu'amilat).

[شمله ور خراساني]

Unfortunately, although many of the original Sufi leaders were true, deep Muslims wholly devoted to God, who preached a pure Islam and followed the Shariah very strictly, in later times what passed for Sufism throughout the Muslim world became, in many cases, a mockery and distortion not only of the teachings of Islam but also of the original teachings of the foudners of the Sufi orders. In some parts of the Muslim world today, "Sufi" or "dervissh" connotes a ragged sa'in or qalandar with matted hair and beads, often engaging in para-normal practices, having the word "Allah" and pious phrases on his lips but without any shadow or substance of Islam in his way of life. The ignorant masses are easily taken in by such charlatans. They also flock to the tombs of pirs, shaykhs and walis, ask them to intercede for them with God, beg them to grant favors, and come very close to actually worshiping them, practices which are utterly condemned by Islam as being tantamount to associating others with God's divinity, which is considered the greatest of all sins and the lowest possible form of degradation.

Thus the true message of submission to God, striving to come near to Him, and attempting to purify the hearts of men which the original Sufis brought has in many cases become distorted, and in many respects the so-called "Sufism" has become a burden and a curse to the Muslim world, bringing people to the very border of man-worship and the pagan practices which Islam came to abolish. The true Sufis (Abdul Qader Jilani, Imam Ghazally, etc) always believed, taught and emphasized that there was no tariqat without the strictest obedience to the Islamic Shari'ah, that is, without very faithfully following the laws, injunctions and practices prescribed in the Holy Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh), both as relate to acts of worship (ibadat) and to practical matters (mu'amilat).

Good to know there are some sensible people here who can summarize things in a concise and intelligible manner.

[شمله ور خراساني]

ok so besides the other 2 points, you say a 3rd point of contention is that Sufis believe their sheikhs can have hidden knowledge. But anyone can have hidden knowledge no? Can't Allah SWT provide knowledge of things to people through their dreams and other means? Be it a sufi or anyone? of course. I am not sure why you associate sufism with these "peer babas" of india etc, that's not the Sufism we speak of, that can be close to hinduism. The sufism we speak of is the sufism of the greats of the Ummah, from Ghazali to nawawai to suyuti (ra to all of them). These people who speak of sufism don't act like these peer baba wanna be hindus, like hamza yusuf, ninowi, etc etc..I have never seen them act this way. You are judging a whole science by a bunch of retards who want to prey on uneducated people in the name of "sufism", but that is not sufism at all, it's crappism.

Just because stupid people do things doesn't mean the science itself is wrong, people do stupid things under all names, under the banner of Islam, religion, democracy etc..

Again, it seems you have 2 points of contention, the Hadra and the group/loud dhirk.


Sufism perpetuates grave worship? Please show me which of the mainsteam ulama of Ahlal tasawful have written to their followers to worship graves? Can you quote me from their books? If not fear Allah, Ask for forgiveness, and take your shahada again, just to be sure.

Who are you to tell me I should ask for forgiveness and take my shahadah again?

I am going to a late lecture now. Over the coming few days I will post a few more articles explaining why the hidden knowledge crap of sufis is nonsense and not part of Islam. And how saint worship is today a predominant theme in sufism.

And the other types of sufis, the liars and supporters of kuffaar like Hamza Yusuf, they are a different catagory I am going to address soon.

[Catya Sher]

Really happy to see Khan Gul's explanation.
Thanks very much for intervening here with this. For probably Haneef means somewhat the same but could not express this in such a level-headed way. Well that's why it's a benefit to have members with diverse skills and strong points. Not everyone is instantly articulate in writing, for example. Or speaking in person.

I am eager to hear exposes about what I would call Fake Sheikhs.
I want to get to the core of what they are doing, who they work for, if anyone, and what's the real dynamic going on to deceive the masses of especially Western seekers in the wake of all this - to me - the "Rumi" craze. It's some fraudulent imposter who is is the topic of all this strange amount of attention. I say strange because of pushers of "Rumi" like - ick - andrew harvey - I can barely write his name, so I de-capitalized the letters on purpose. He is a declared homosexual who was responsible for getting that movement underway. I never kept up because I felt the whole thing was way off the mark of Truth.

The birthday of Maulana Jelaluddin Rumi Balkhi was tomorrow by the way [Sept 30, 1207] , so this is appropriate to be discussing at this juncture.

I notice birthdays of all famous people...

[Haneef]

Unfortunately, although many of the original Sufi leaders were true, deep Muslims wholly devoted to God, who preached a pure Islam and followed the Shariah very strictly, in later times what passed for Sufism throughout the Muslim world became, in many cases, a mockery and distortion not only of the teachings of Islam but also of the original teachings of the foudners of the Sufi orders. In some parts of the Muslim world today, "Sufi" or "dervissh" connotes a ragged sa'in or qalandar with matted hair and beads, often engaging in para-normal practices, having the word "Allah" and pious phrases on his lips but without any shadow or substance of Islam in his way of life. The ignorant masses are easily taken in by such charlatans. They also flock to the tombs of pirs, shaykhs and walis, ask them to intercede for them with God, beg them to grant favors, and come very close to actually worshiping them, practices which are utterly condemned by Islam as being tantamount to associating others with God's divinity, which is considered the greatest of all sins and the lowest possible form of degradation.

Thus the true message of submission to God, striving to come near to Him, and attempting to purify the hearts of men which the original Sufis brought has in many cases become distorted, and in many respects the so-called "Sufism" has become a burden and a curse to the Muslim world, bringing people to the very border of man-worship and the pagan practices which Islam came to abolish. The true Sufis (Abdul Qader Jilani, Imam Ghazally, etc) always believed, taught and emphasized that there was no tariqat without the strictest obedience to the Islamic Shari'ah, that is, without very faithfully following the laws, injunctions and practices prescribed in the Holy Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh), both as relate to acts of worship (ibadat) and to practical matters (mu'amilat).

And you don't think "bad" sufis existed at their time? What does this have to do with the actual practices? Their words are written. For example in Tarim yemen, Habib Ali Jifri has based his whole curriculum on imam ghazali's Ihya ulum-ad-deen...The scripturs are there, those who wish to follow the guidance can and will show clearly from those who wish to dupe people with peers etc...

But to deny it altogether due to a few bad apples is like denying Islam because of a few bad Mullahs, ILL_logic!

[Haneef]

Really happy to see Khan Gul's explanation.
Thanks very much for intervening here with this. For probably Haneef means somewhat the same but could not express this in such a level-headed way. Well that's why it's a benefit to have members with diverse skills and strong points. Not everyone is instantly articulate in writing, for example. Or speaking in person.

I am eager to hear exposes about what I would call Fake Sheikhs.
I want to get to the core of what they are doing, who they work for, if anyone, and what's the real dynamic going on to deceive the masses of especially Western seekers in the wake of all this - to me - the "Rumi" craze. It's some fraudulent imposter who is is the topic of all this strange amount of attention. I say strange because of pushers of "Rumi" like - ick - andrew harvey - I can barely write his name, so I de-capitalized the letters on purpose. He is a declared homosexual who was responsible for getting that movement underway. I never kept up because I felt the whole thing was way off the mark of Truth.

The birthday of Maulana Jelaluddin Rumi Balkhi was tomorrow by the way [Sept 30, 1207] , so this is appropriate to be discussing at this juncture.

I notice birthdays of all famous people...

Jalaluddin Ar-Rumi was an Afghan Hanafi Faqeeh, Aalim, he wasn't just any poet. If you can't understand some of his poetry or have an issue with it, that's your loss. Don't read it.

[Haneef]

Who are you to tell me I should ask for forgiveness and take my shahadah again?

I am going to a late lecture now. Over the coming few days I will post a few more articles explaining why the hidden knowledge crap of sufis is nonsense and not part of Islam. And how saint worship is today a predominant theme in sufism.

And the other types of sufis, the liars and supporters of kuffaar like Hamza Yusuf, they are a different catagory I am going to address soon.

you call people grave worshippers without actually knowing they did grave worship, so it may make you a kafir.