Is Hijab necessary?

[Palwasha]

Also, regarding hadiths ...

It's inevitable to bring up hadiths when talking on Islam since hadiths make up over 90% of our "Islamic" practices! One wonders if it's just Arab practices (i.e., Arab Sunnah) or actual ISLAMIC practices ... but that's open to debate).

Hey Qrratu, just a quick question.. so you don't really believe in hadiths? In the sense you don't regard them as authentic.. and if yes, is that just for all hadiths or some?

[Badlun]

I never said that those who cover their bodies are uneducated lunatics. I just raised the issue that the verse only talks of the veil/hijab of bossoms and not of any other part of the body of the women. And I dont believe in any modern or old Islam. I believe Islam to be only a religion and not culture and dress is part of culture not religion.

My views on Hijab as posted in another topic on Burka are reproduced below.

Here on the HIJAB/NIQAB/PARDAH issue I would like to say that this hijab etc is really a conspiracy against Muslim women generally and Pashtun women specially. Dress should be decent one and according to the climate and situation. Thats all. Its not a big issue.In warm araes dress should be light and vice versa in cold areas. Similarly it should be formal, informal etc according to the situation.

Pashtun women should come out in rebellion against the dress code imposed upon them by their male masters and by the illiterate mullas and taliban. They should dress decently as done by any other woman whether Muslim or not. Religion has nothing to do with your dresses. Its part of the culture not religion. Religion deals with your faith, worship amd morality not with your dress. Do you think all Muslim women dress equally in the whole Muslim world. No there is a hell of difference.

Burka is the extreme form of enslaving a Pashtun woman. Its cruelty, barbarity and the ugliest form of a dress. How can you cover a human being in a sack like a packet of potatos or onion. Please discourage its use. Its a curse.

Pashtun women dress is an important issue. More than 90 % Pashtun women even cant show their faces in public. They have to cover their whole body like we cover a corpse in coffin. Saudi Arabia and Pashtun areas in Afghanistan and Pakistan (Pashtunland)are the only two examples even in Muslim world where women are obliged to cover their faces. This is a clear absurdity , an extreme stupidity in this modern era that you dont let a human being even not to show her face.

However we should avoid extremes of shuttle cock burkas and mini skirts. If A Pashtun woman is a profesional lady , if she is intelligent, if she is knowledgable, if she is intellectual and she is Pashtun by race and by practice , she sepaks Pashto, she writes Pashto , she teaches Pashto to her children - all these are important , not how she lives, where she lives , she wears skirt or paint shirt or kamees partug -these are non essential for me ,-however we should avoid both the extremes-mini skirt and shuttle cock burKa are two extremes , we should find a middle way especially when a Pashtun woman live in Pashtunland till the time comes when dress does not remain an important issue as we see nowa days in modern developed world of Europe, America etc.

[Dinosaur Khan]

Shuttle cock burqa is a beautiful version of hijab. By wearing it a woman can enjoy watching outside world without being seen.
It is part of identity of pashtun women like the turban is for pashtun male.
We should be proud of our culture & dress, be with me in supporting shuttle cock burqa and rejecting jeans, skirts etc for pashtun women!

[Roshina]

Hey Qrratu, just a quick question.. so you don't really believe in hadiths? In the sense you don't regard them as authentic.. and if yes, is that just for all hadiths or some?

Oh, I believe in hadiths. Many of them, just not all. I only ask that we be cautious about accepting ALL as "authentic" even if they're categorized as authentic because they're still SOMEONE'S understanding of what the Prophet did or said (supposedly, often not even in reality). There's no doubt that they were very, very carefully selected, but the fact remains: What so-and-so said was perhaps NOT the intention of the Prophet.

There are hadiths in which the Prophet said, "Do NOT write down what I do or say." And that's because he knew that what he was saying may be misunderstood and misinterpreted by people to mean that they're universal and eternal.

Moreover, let's ask ourselves ... if I tell you something, what are the chances that everything I tell you will be remembered verbatim by everyone who's listening to me? Sure, there are variations, but we need to be careful in accepting them as the Prophet's REAL words and actions because perhaps they're only the people's personal interpretations.

When hadiths say things like, "Respect your parents" or "Be good to your neighbor" and so on, that's great and we know that's congruent with the Quranic teachings. But when they tell us what's forbidden and what's permissible, we MUST be careful in acknowledging their status then.

Think about it: Is it not very likely that I am talking to someone, and you just overhear me and then go to other people and say, "Hey, Qrratugai said this ..."? Of course it is. And we see this happening with one hadith in which Aisha is condemning Abu Huraira for having gone around telling everyone that "The Prophet said that houses, women, and ... [I wanna say horses? I'm not sure :S] bring bad luck." Aisha told him, "Stop lying because the Prophet was telling us that the JEWS believe that! You came in the middle of the Prophet's talking, so you didn't hear everything." (When I get home and am close to the hadith book, I'll give you reference so you can check this out yourself.)

What does that mean? That there were times when the Prophet did something that was taken completely out of context by those who went around circulating his talks :S

There are also many, many contradictions in hadiths. Those, I've pointed out in another thread. And we also know of the millions of hadiths that are SO against women that they make one's mind boil. Clearly, most hadith narrators who transmitted those anti-women hadith had their own views of women, saw women as intellectually inferior to men, and made sure to spread such hadiths around claiming the Prophet said that -- when they almost always contradict the Quran.

So, yeah, it's just that what the thoughts on women were at that time were just universalized to all other Muslim areas, and that includes how women should dress and behave and all. I say this because we know that almost NONE of the thoughts on women in hadiths can be supported by the Quran.

So I believe in hadiths; I understand and appreciate their importance ... but we NEED to realize that ultimately, they're the words of men, they were circulated by certain people (humans), and they were said by people who were prone to taking things out of context. It is only that I'm more cautious about accepting their authenticity. There are times when hadiths are perhaps necessary - sure, like when they teach you HOW to pray - but there are times when they're just really, really unnecessary, like telling you that angels curse any woman who refuses sex to her husband, or that if God had so willed, He would've made woman prostrate to her husband, or that women should not leave their homes without a male companion (perfect example! Can we say this was because of the fact that women weren't aware of world affairs in those times and in that place? They'd basically get lost anywhere they went, right? But is that the case today?), and so on.

[Roshina]

Shuttle cock burqa is a beautiful version of hijab. By wearing it a woman can enjoy watching outside world without being seen.
It is part of identity of pashtun women like the turban is for pashtun male.
We should be proud of our culture & dress, be with me in supporting shuttle cock burqa and rejecting jeans, skirts etc for pashtun women!

Identity? Suuuuuure. In a turban, you can see what's going on around you! A turban doesn't confine you at all. The shuttlecock burqa does, my friend.

Let the women decide for themselves what their identity is and how they should express it; if they don't want a burqa, why manipulate them into thinking, "But that's a part of your identity!"? I don't know of many Pashtun women who are willing to cover their faces and have only a few itty bitty holes to see the world with.

And there are thooooooooousands of many other ways to express your Pashtun identity as a woman, Jodigul. Burqa isn't even one of the ones I am thinking of.

I believe that the shuttle cock bura is just as extreme as is wearing a mini skirt.

[Badlun]

Yes all hadith are not authentic even if they are recorded in the so called sihahe sita. And I believe in what Imam Abu Hanifa believe that for the interpretation of religion only Quran and Reason are the sources and thats why he was believing only in few( some say just 16) hadiths.

[Dinosaur Khan]

@Qrratugai
If a Pashtun woman do not want to wear burqa, it is her choice. But we should respect choice of all those pashtun women who are happily wearing burqa.
Burqa may look ugly & scary but in fact it is a defending women from hungry predators in our male-dominated society.
I respect a jeans wearing pashtana but highly doubt she can walk in lakki marwat or bannu with such dress.

[Dinosaur Khan]

@Qrratugai
If a Pashtun woman do not want to wear burqa, it is her choice. But we should respect choice of all those pashtun women who are happily wearing burqa with their full consent.
Burqa may look ugly & scary but in fact it is a defending women from hungry predators in our male-dominated society.
I respect a jeans wearing pashtana but highly doubt she can walk in lakki marwat or bannu with such dress.

[Palwasha]

Thanks for the explanation Qrratu, I dounderstand your perspective.

..I just wanted to make the following point..

O Prophet, Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their outer garments about themselves (when they go out). That is better so that they may be recognised and not molested. And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. [Al-Ahzaab, 33:59]

As Chino quoted, Allah commanded The Prophet (SAW) to TELL the women to cover their adornment. Which is why in the Quran there's not exactly a list or disticnt description, so to speak, of how a Muslim women oughta look when they step outta the house. You have to refer to hadiths for specificity, which is where the hijaab is mentioned precisely.

[shinwari]

Its clear and obvious. Ladies do not want to be covered so they are looking for excuses to make on not wearing Hijab.

[darkwitch]

^^I just dont understand why a women would not want to embrace hijab...its free,liberating nd respectful...

[شمله ور خراساني]

There's absolutely no doubt about the fact that all humans (at least all Muslims) should wear a hijab.

The question is, what IS hijab? What do we mean by hijab? What is modesty?

@ Badal, You said: "According to Qurâan and Sunnah there are basically six criteria for observing hijaab:..."

And then you listed the criteria without telling us where IN the Quran (we know it's in hadiths, but where in the Quran) does it list those?

Also, guys, note that the verses you posted talk about modesty and how important it is ... but the question remains: What is modesty? Is it possible that while the principle and its significance remain important and static but the way it's practiced changes with time and society? Or can that not be possible at all?

But we'll go step by step and just ask for a definition of modesty and hijab.

Good discussion - only, I wish some of us would stop insulting each other and saying things that are not called for at all.

The guy's quote you posted in your signature called the prophet Muhammad sal allahu alayhi wasallam a liar. If you know of the sayings of a man who insulted the seal of the prophet's and yet quizz people and demand proof for hijab, then I feel sorry for you.

Islam is not that complicated. If Allah speaks of modesty in Qur'an then we can see what modesty means by observing the way the household of our beloved prophet sal allahu alayhi wasallam were being modest.

There are numerous proofs describing how the women of the prophet's household ( may allah be pleased with them) would cover themselves from head to toe.

This might conflict to the norms and standards of modern Western society or Indianized and bollywoodized Pashtun society. But the norms and standards for Muslims are set 1400 years ago.

People might have difficulty accepting it as it is. That is every individual person's problem.

But going about and claiming that there is no proof for niqab, burqa or hijab in Islam is just nonsense.

Islam is not a toy everyone can go and adjust it to his or her personal desires.

[pukhtana]

The guy's quote you posted in your signature called the prophet Muhammad sal allahu alayhi wasallam a liar. If you know of the sayings of a man who insulted the seal of the prophet's and yet quizz people and demand proof for hijab, then I feel sorry for you.

Islam is not that complicated. If Allah speaks of modesty in Qur'an then we can see what modesty means by observing the way the household of our beloved prophet sal allahu alayhi wasallam were being modest.

There are numerous proofs describing how the women of the prophet's household ( may allah be pleased with them) would cover themselves from head to toe.

This might conflict to the norms and standards of modern Western society or Indianized and bollywoodized Pashtun society. But the norms and standards for Muslims are set 1400 years ago.

People might have difficulty accepting it as it is. That is every individual person's problem.

But going about and claiming that there is no proof for niqab, burqa or hijab in Islam is just nonsense.

Islam is not a toy everyone can go and adjust it to his or her personal desires.

Arghhhhh! I am so glad to have you here.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Identity? Suuuuuure. In a turban, you can see what's going on around you! A turban doesn't confine you at all. The shuttlecock burqa does, my friend.

Let the women decide for themselves what their identity is and how they should express it; if they don't want a burqa, why manipulate them into thinking, "But that's a part of your identity!"? I don't know of many Pashtun women who are willing to cover their faces and have only a few itty bitty holes to see the world with.

And there are thooooooooousands of many other ways to express your Pashtun identity as a woman, Jodigul. Burqa isn't even one of the ones I am thinking of.

I believe that the shuttle cock bura is just as extreme as is wearing a mini skirt.

Being confined is a horrible feeling. And the purpose of covering yourself in Islam is not to confine women.

However, if women do feel confined, then it is because there are flaws in the society. Because studying the life of women during the lifetime of the companions, we can see how women were in a very liberal position compared to the backward ignorant society we Pashtuns find ourselves in.

Our women are denied health-care because men give preference to Pashtunwali over Islam.

But that should not prevent our Muslim sisters from adhering to the legal ways of Islam.

If you want to rebel against ignorance and stupidity of our Pashtun society. Go ahead. I will help you.

But don't rebel against our religion. Because our religion is the ultimate truth.

[Roshina]

^^I just dont understand why a women would not want to embrace hijab...its free,liberating nd respectful...

By "hijab," do you mean headcovering? If so, I must say ... it may be liberating to you but don't assume it SHOULD be to everyone else, khorey because everyone's understanding and expression of liberation and opression are different from our own.

Let's call for choice. If someone wants to wear it, great -- if not, so be it.

So, Jodigul, I believe in choice. IF a woman wants to cover herself with a burqa, great for her. But we shouldn't tell all Pukhtun women that "it's a part of our Pukhtun identity; wear it." Advice is not the same as command.