This is really interesting

[parsiwaan]

Prophet Muhammad is a completely mysterious character, without any contemporary sources proving his existence. The earliest reference to a "Muhammad" is that of Thomas the Presbyter, 640 AD, who writes:

"... In the year 947 (635—36), indiction 9, the Arabs invaded the whole of Syria and went down to Persia and conquered it. The Arabs climbed the mountain of Mardin and killed many monks there in the monasteries of Qedar and Bnata. There died the blessed man Simon, doorkeeper of Qedar, brother of Thomas the priest. In January the people of Hims took the word for their lives and many villages were ravaged by the killing of the Arabs of Muhmd and many people were slain and taken prisoner from Galilee as far as Beth. On the twenty-sixth of May the Saqilara went from the vicinity of Hims and the Romans chased them. On the tenth of August the Romans fled from the vicinity of Damascus and there were killed many people, some ten thousand. And at the turn of the year the Romans came. On the twentieth of August in the year nine hundred and forty-seven there gathered in Gabitha a multitude of the Romans, and many people of the Romans were killed, some fifty thousand. ..."

This is the oldest written account about a "Muhammad" whom the Arabs followed. The text was written 10 years after the alleged death of Islam's prophet, but this remarkable contemporary source proves two things:

- the Arabs acted in the name (or perhaps on the order) of a "Muhammad"
- either way, the movement of "Muhammad" was primarily a militaristic, aggressive one

Yet, it does not prove the existence of an Arabic prophet. The word "Muhammad" simply means "the praised one". The same way later crusaders were known by a symbol of the religion they followed, the expression "Arabs of Muhammad" could also mean that these new Arabs became known by the symbol they followed. As can be shown in archaeological findings, the Latin expression "MHMD" was used by Syriac Christians to designate Jesus, "the praised one". It is also important to note that in classical language, the word "Arabia" only referred to the Arab-speaking region in southern Syria (south of Israel), known in Roman and Greek sources as "Provincia Arabia" or "Arabia Petraea", home of the Christian "Bani Ghassan" and the Arab-Christian "Foederatio Arabica" (the Aramaic word for "federation" is "qarasha", the ultimate origin of the Arabic tribal name "Quraysh", hence proving the Christian origins of early Islamic community):





So, it does not take much intelligence to figure out the following:

Arab Christians known as the "foederatio" of Arabs (--> "qarasha" --> "quraysh") somehow managed to take control of the entire Middle East. Perhaps they were first allied with the Romans against the Zorostrian Persians (hence Sura 45:24, demonizing Zoroastrian Zurvanites and ordering to fight them), that would explain why the Romans are praised in the Quran. But later, they turned against the Romans and conquered Syria. The first Arab ruler who can be verified in historical sources was Muawiyah, the governor of Syria who is described as a "Christian" in contemporary sources and who minted coins in his name and in the name of "MHMD", very obviously Jesus as can be seen here:




These coins clearly show the name "Muhammad", but the figure depicted on the coins is - without any doubt - Jesus.

So, the question remains: is the "Muhammad" mentioned in the Quran (only 4 times!) an Arab prophet or in reality the Syro-Aramaic concept of "Jesus, the praised man of God (MHMD)"?! And were the "Arabs of Muhammad" the new Muslim army or simply Arab Christians who followed the Non-Trinitarian, Syriac concept of Christianity which viewed Jesus as a "praised man of God"?! Think about it!

[parsiwaan]

A Note on the "Huris"

The – in times of worldwide actions of an Islamic terrorism for obvious reasons – most famous example of a new understanding of Koranic passages in Christoph Luxenberg, Die syro-aramäische Lesart des Koran. Ein Beitrag zur Entschlüsselung der Koransprache [The Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Koran. A Contribution to Decyphering the Language of the Koran], Berlin 12000 and 22004, concerns the "Huris", those ever-virgin playmates who shall be given to the Islamic warriors in Paradise. With Luxenberg they become – again – the "white, jewel-like grapes", we know as fruit of the Paradise from Ephrem Syrus' poem "The Paradise (De Paradiso)".

Dr. Andrea Barbara Schmidt, professor of Syriac literature at Université Catholique de Louvain, Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgium, pointed me to the following interesting detail:

The metaphor of refreshing the dead souls in the celestial realm by the old-testament fathers is well-known in the Christian-eastern and Byzantine literature. Numerous places giving evidence for it can be found with Ephrem Syrus, the famous poet and ecclesiastical writer in the Syriac, i.e. the Christian-Aramaic language. But most important of all is a picture that appears in the oldest transmitted Christian prayer for the dead of the 3rd century, which was delivered by the Copts, the Syriacs, Armenians and Greeks. Here they prayed for the admission of the souls in the celestial realm and their refreshing, calming and renewal in the eternal life.

A fascinating transformation of this idea into the iconography is shown in a Syrian mural picture, in 1998 uncovered by Dr. Karel Innemée, Leiden, The Netherlands, in the Syrian monastery Deir al-Suryan in the Wadi Natrun in Egypt. Here the three Patriarchs Abraham, Isaak and Jacob are shown holding in their lap the souls of men, which they nourish with white grapes (!).

Here exists a quite concrete connection between philology and the picturesque views of the Paradise in late antiquity times, as they now have been established by Christoph Luxenberg also for the Koran. Deir al-Suryan, too, lies in the desert, and cooled grapes must have been considered as the highest of celestial pleasures.

For further information I refer to K. Innemée, P. Grossmann, K.D. Jenner, L. van Rompay, New Discoveries in the al-`Adra Church of Dair al-Suryan in the Wadi Natrun, in: Mitteilungen zur christlichen Archäologie 4 (1998), p. 79-103.

With regard to the dating of the wall paintings in the Deir al-Suryan monastery Innemée, Grossmann, Jenner and van Rompay cautiously assumed a rather late date:

"The theme of the three patriarchs enthroned in paradise occurs in iconography only since the 9th/10th century [foot-note omitted] and this is the first example in Coptic wall-painting known so far. An exact dating for the painting is hard to give, but since it is partially covered by a painting supposed to be from the 13th century and considering its style it might be dated to the 11th century."

In a personal communication or March 10th, 2005, however Dr. Innemée kindly shared with me the insights he has conceived in the meantime:

"As you know, dating is one of the most tricky and sensitive problems in art historical research. Especially in the case of Deir al-Surian it was an important part of the research, that started with the controversy about the dating of the Annunciation, discovered in 1991. As for now, we have several layers of plaster on which paintings have been made, ranging from the 7th to the 13th century. The layer on which the three patriarchs in Paradise have been painted dates back to 7th century. Since around the year 700 AD several paintings have been made on this layer. The earliest paintings were made in the eastern part of the church and gradually the decoration was continued in the nave (west). The painting of the patriarchs is on the southern wall of the nave, between two – now blocked – windows. These windows were blocked most probably in the 9th century, when the monastery was surrounded by a defensive wall, which was constructed directly against the southern wall of the church. Since the painting has been done carefully between the window frames, this suggests that the windows were not yet blocked when the painting was made. On the other hand, the paintings overlap a Syriac inscription, that according to Luk van Rompay dates back to around 800 AD. This, for the time being, is a reason for me to date the painting to the 9th century."







The Patriarchs Abraham, Isaak and Jacob nourish the blessed ones in Paradise with white grapes.
Mural picture in the Syrian monastery Deir al-Suryan in the Wadi Natrun in Egypt

http://www.christoph-heger.de/Note_on_the_Huris.htm

[شمله ور خراساني]

Are you a muslim or a kaafir?

[Baygham]

Are you a muslim or a kaafir?

Probably like you, he is an apostate.

[parsiwaan]

In Kandahar we have historical reference of Muhammad.

Please provide the source.

[parsiwaan]

Probably like you, he is an apostate.

[parsiwaan]

As you all know Ossman gather Korhan and burn those scripts that he deemed not being word of god...interestingly at time of Ottman--Ossman there was no Arabic letters...so the initial qorhan were written in Aramic--Not dot... below link talks more in detail about this…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Syr...g_of_the_Koran

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagaris..._Islamic_World

[Abu Hurayrah]

As you all know Ossman gather Korhan and burn those scripts that he deemed not being word of god...interestingly at time of Ottman--Ossman there was no Arabic letters...so the initial qorhan were written in Aramic--Not dot... below link talks more in detail about this…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Syr...g_of_the_Koran

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagaris..._Islamic_World

The Qur'aan was already written and supervised in the time of the prophet peace be upon him, the reason for burning other copies, was to take away doubts. It was written by the order of Abu Bakr Sadiq (ra), and by the order of Uthman ibn Affan, to compile it on different material. It is rather stupid to argue on this matter, since that Qur'aan can be found in the museum of Istanbul.

[Abu Hurayrah]

What's the whole point about the Huri's? There are more women in the world, and have been than men, in almost all stages and cultures, a decent women, who did not commit an indecent act before marriage was higher in degree. The fact that there are hur al ayn in Paradise is not strange at all. Because the Christians have fruit in their garden of Eden, the muslims shouldn't believe in a Paradise? Because the Zoroastrians have a Paradise , the muslims got it from them? Zoroaster, Budhism and Hinduism have more things in common with the teaching of Islaam than you may have thought.

And the funny thing is, nobody knows how Jesus looked like, the same professors are even denying his existence. For example Zetgeist. For a sane person, its quite rare to doubt the existence of Muhammad (s.a.w.) or Jesus (pbuh). The muslims where not allowed to make drawings of the prophets, if you had a painting, you would never dare to come here , and open such a topic. The hair, clothes, house, footprint, swords, seal, etc, can be found in museums. But, for people like yourself, it is only satisfying when George tells you what fact is and what fiction. Its quite a strange, and poor mentality.

[parsiwaan]

The Qur'aan was already written and supervised in the time of the prophet peace be upon him, the reason for burning other copies, was to take away doubts. It was written by the order of Abu Bakr Sadiq (ra), and by the order of Uthman ibn Affan, to compile it on different material. It is rather stupid to argue on this matter, since that Qur'aan can be found in the museum of Istanbul.

Please stop calling thing stupid when you have no idea what’s going on...the fact is this attitude of Islam---"stupid to argue", no question to ask is based on the simple fact that Islam can never survive the criticism—like that of Enlightenment of that of Christianity… thus the fiercely opposition. Ottman did collected qorhan and burn the other copy of it… and no muslim scholar shia or suni denies this fact. Moreover the oldest qorhan is in Tashekand and it was written in Aramic letters...
check it out...

http://www.irfi.org/articles/article..._the_world.htm

moreover there are a lot of "mistake" and error in oldest qorhan according to muslim shcoalrs themselves.
http://www.submission.org/quran/protect.html

[parsiwaan]

What's the whole point about the Huri's? There are more women in the world, and have been than men, in almost all stages and cultures, a decent women, who did not commit an indecent act before marriage was higher in degree. The fact that there are hur al ayn in Paradise is not strange at all. Because the Christians have fruit in their garden of Eden, the muslims shouldn't believe in a Paradise? Because the Zoroastrians have a Paradise , the muslims got it from them? Zoroaster, Budhism and Hinduism have more things in common with the teaching of Islaam than you may have thought.

Its not about how Jesus or Mohammad looks... these coins




where of that the first Arab ruler who can be verified in historical sources was Muawiyah, the governor of Syria who is described as a "Christian" in contemporary sources and who minted coins in his name and in the name of "MHMD", very obviously Jesus as can be seen here. In other world Christian were using these coins with "Jesus" stamp on it while under "muslim" rule the Jesus stamp was continued(nothing to do with look of jesus or anything) thus the question remains: is the "Muhammad" mentioned in the Quran (only 4 times!) an Arab prophet or in reality the Syro-Aramaic concept of "Jesus, the praised man of God (MHMD)"?! And were the "Arabs of Muhammad" the new Muslim army or simply Arab Christians who followed the Non-Trinitarian, Syriac concept of Christianity which viewed Jesus as a "praised man of God"?!

Think about it.

Also No "Islamic scholar", whether in Qum or al-Azhar, can answer the questions:

- why Jesus is titled "Messiah" in the Quran
- why the phonetically and linguistically illogical and impossible forms of "Massi", "Isa", "Ibrahim" and "Shaytan" are used for the Aramaic-Hebrew words "Moshey", "Ishay", "Abraham" and "Shatan"
- what the Quran means by the character of "Malik" in "Jahanam" (which, by the way, is a Christian liturgical expression inspired by the Old-Testament story of "Hinnom"; obviously your "Allah" forget to teach Arabs about that)
- why typically Mediterranean expressions and phrases are used for the people of Mecca of Medina, although the Quran was - according to Islamic history - revealed to a native Meccan?
- why the cities of Mecca and Medina are not mentioned in the Quran
- what exactly the Quran means by Sura 45:24 and why Islamic scholars are not able to give a logical explanation while Western comparative scholarship has answered that decades ago
- why not any of the first 4 caliphs of Islam is mentioned by any contemporary non-Islamic writers; especially Omar who allegedly ruled for 10 years and ruled over 30% of the world population (!!!) cannot be verified in history; except for Islamic stories written from the 9th century onward, there is absolutely NO PROOF for his existence
- why contemporary Christians, Jews, and Zoroastrians considered the early Arab Muslims to be a "heretic sect of Christianity" (again: see the note about Jesus being the "Messiah" which is a clear contradiction to the Muslim belief of "Muhammad being the last prophet")

[akbarkhan]

especially Omar who allegedly ruled for 10 years and ruled over 30% of the world population (!!!) cannot be verified in history; except for Islamic stories written from the 9th century onward, there is absolutely NO PROOF for his existence

Actually, non-Muslim sources provide an immense volume of historical & archaeological evidence in support of the fact that the Dome of the Rock was built by the caliph Omar in 630s. For example, K. A. C. Creswell's research uses non-Muslim as well as Muslim sources on Dome of the Rock. Perhaps another reliable reference is The world in the middle ages, an historical geography by Adolph Ludvig.

Please do abit of research before you embark on a Islam bashing tirade!

[Wrayun]

parsiwaan,

Are you a Pan-Iranist or Aryanist?

[Wrayun]

Which Western contemporary historian has written about Khushal Khan Khattak, Pir Rokhan, Rehman Baba, Mirwais Hotak......? I guess they don't exist. We must've made them up. Damn it, if the white man hasn't written or talked about it, it wasn't there.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Which Western contemporary historian has written about Khushal Khan Khattak, Pir Rokhan, Rehman Baba, Mirwais Hotak......? I guess they don't exist. We must've made them up. Damn it, if the white man hasn't written or talked about it, it wasn't there.

in quran is says that one should not trust fasiqs. These people have turned things around and wont trust anything if it is not confirmed by kaafirs.