Evolution and Pashtun nationalism...

[khyaal]

I also would like to know that without Nationalistic attitude how can a nation overthrow a tyranical ruler?

He perhaps doesn't understand nationalism fully. All he knows about is racism and chauvinism which he unjustifiably equates with nationalism.

[akbarkhan]

Assalam-Alaikum.

Dear Akbar Khan,

according to my logs, the only edit I see in your post is from Qrratugai in which all she removed was the part in which you referred to her as a 'little girl'. I like to think we are educated and civilized people hence there should never be a need for such snark comments. But at the same time, you have the right to not show someone respect. I can never force you to respect me, Baygham, LZ or anybody. Respecting someone is your personal choice.

Yes I agree it was wrong of her to edit the "little girl" from your post[since that is all she edited]. We are humans and we certainly aren't perfect. Qrratugai isn't some evil person who is out to get you. I don't know your intention behind using the term "little girl" but I can certainly tell you how it appears, as a matter of fact, I am not even going to argue with you about all that since I think its redundant and pointless. But at the same time there is a certain level of respect that should be present when addressing someone. I can never picture myself debating with someone who addresses me the way you was addressing her and many others. Just because someone opposes your views does not mean you have to belittle them. Just because Gulalai attempted to refute your post does not mean you have to call her a little girl. With all due respect Yousefa, you referring to users as little girls is uncalled for. I can further elaborate on it if you want but as someone whom I respect, you have the right to even call me a little boy. Go right ahead, I will still embrace you as a brother. Its fine with me.

With that being said, I will speak to her about this and I apologize on her behalf, I really do. She will not edit the text referring to members as 'little girl' again from your posts. And do me a favor, please do not exagerrate the situation on hand. Its not like someone edited your post to portray a different message. Please try to understand the situation on hand. We have had hundreds of streamed debates in the past, everyone has received the right to voice their opinions. We have members who aren't shy when it comes to criticizing a certain article. I myself have been the subject of criticism in several threads. I myself have been insulted by one of your close buddies and I took with a grain of salt, I kept it moving because it was within the frameworks of our rules.

PF ever since its inception has been unbiased and we will always remain unbiased. If you want to create new Forums, go right ahead be my guest, I can even assist you in creating them.

Ka de khwa bada swalay ya, no za da zra sakha der bakshana darsa ghwarama. You should know me better than that by now.

Staso wror,

-Admin Khan

Admin Khan,

A few of my posts have been altered and deleted, latest deletion was my reply to Gulalai on this thread.

How I address individuals depends on my preference and what suits them best, its their insecurities that drives them up the wall when they are referred to using words that best describe their attitude and level of intelligence.

You don't need to apologize. I find it truly amazing that when the same members mock Allah swt and His book they get praised but when someone calls them 'little girl' then its deemed as 'offensive language' and is frowned upon.

salam alaikom,

[Dust]

As far as the topic is concerned, I find it amusing that the thread started rejects evolution then agrees that evolution still does happen in certain cases. Make up your mind. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

ps
No one has mocked the Quran or Allah. If they have you should put those posts forward. As far as facts are concerned, it is you, akbarkhan, who is throwing childish remarks. Get over yourself and don't insult people's intelligence just because they don't conform to your views. Moreover, if God (considering He does exist) wanted everyone to follow one path then He would not have given free choice and a questioning mind.

[Admin Khan]

Admin Khan,

A few of my posts have been altered and deleted, latest deletion was my reply to Gulalai on this thread.

None of your posts were deleted. None. I just checked the logs again, if you want proof. I can take screen shots of the logs for you. The only thing that had occurred which I admitted and apologized about was Qrratugai removing the 'little girl' part from your post. That was all. If you want to escalate this and if you want proof nu PM rawaka and I will be more than glad to show you evidence.

We are not biased at all. If I was biased, I would not be directing you publicly. I take blame for what Qrratugai did. I've been in the admin game for years so I am never to shy to admit if my staff has committed a mistake. Khwa ma badawa Yousef jaana. Za dera bakshana darsa gwarama. You should try to look at this from my scope. Just because we have a handful of non-Muslims here who are professionally offer their refutations doesn't mean I am biased. If being unbiased means banning anyone who disagres with Islam, than I guess I am biased. But you and I both know I have cooperated with you almost everytime you PMed me. Am I right? Can you truly look at me in the face and say 'Admin Khan you are biased'?

And once again,
NONE of your posts were altered. We never alter posts that are in compliance with our rules. Take a look at the support forum, we have had members criticize us, not for nothing but constructive criticism is the reason we are improving. We have had JEWS from Tel Aviv posting here criticizing me and my staff and we never altered the posts. I have proof of members calling me 'soft' and much worser things and they all still exist. I like to think I am quite lenient and fair when it comes to moderation. This isn't my first time in the game as I have told you in the past, I've been doing this for years on various sites including for firms you probably heard of. Pashtun Forums was a project directed at Pashtun Unity and Education. A place where unbiased discussions can take place. I think that is evident already if we look at the amount of atheists happily posting here.

I address individuals depends on my preference and what suits them best, its their insecurities that drives them up the wall when they are referred to using words that best describe their attitude and level of intelligence.

Again, I've made my stance clear on this. You can even feel free to refer to me as a little boy. I have no objections. What I meant to tell you was in a professional debate referring to people as 'little' isn't something I would prefer or ever do. But hey, to each their own right? I think I elaborated on this already no one in PF has the right to force you to respect anyone. As long as you or others don't begin attacking or personally insulting someone directly, not much I can do as far as you respecting members is concerned.

don't need to apologize. I find it truly amazing that when the same members mock Allah swt and His book they get praised but when someone calls them 'little girl' then its deemed as 'offensive language' and is frowned upon.

salam alaikom,

Not once have I praised someone insulting my Religion. I have spoke about this way too many times in the past. There is a difference between challenging Islam and attacking,insulting Islam. I am confident that as a rational being, you know my stance on this.

Just because someone is a Hindu or Atheist doesn't mean anything. All members are equal in PF.


and for the last time,
As far as Qrratugai goes, she is a rational being. If you express distaste to her posts you have every right to criticize her POSTS, her VIEWS not her personally. She has worked hard in making PF what it is right now. Back in March it was her who strived in bringing this board to what it is right now. I make mistakes, she made a mistake, but to say your posts are being altered and deleted is not true at all. I and Qrratugai disagree on things all the time. We, in a professional and civil way express our opinions sometimes she might say I am right or I might say she is right. But a discussion should never be about proving someone wrong. Sometimes, its just rational to agree to disagree and not argue.(I am generally speaking)

Bya hum in front of thousands za bakshana darsa gwarama. Khwa ma badawa.

[Baygham]

I am more than happy to answer any question, but my posts are being moderated biasedly. Admin Khan has not addressed it so as much I like PF I will create an unbiased forum which in no way will be competing with this one but at least there atheist like yourself and Muslims like me can have open dialogue without any teenage girls getting emotional over chicken feed.

Now for the point you have put across.

I could turn the tables around and tell you how much some elements of Pashtunwali has contributed to our backwardness and misery. If Islam tell us to cut off the hands of a thief then what about Pashtunwali through which we sell our daughters for the highest bidder?

What about the revenge killings that start over a chicken and ends up for generations?

Islam has contributed alot to the world, but unfortunately I must confess that Muslims of the recent generations haven't.

brb, time for taraweh. will post the rest when I come back inshallah.

primitive elements of pashtunwali should be abolished under a progressive reform process, coupled with economic development and increased oppurtunity with adequate resource management. Same true for islam.
Not all of islam is bad, just some primitive elements, the rest is part of culture and will be there as our identity.

Laws should have a purpose to decrease the incidence of a crime. A crime is an act against a person or a group of peaple and their interests i.e. increases exploitation and decreases oppurtunity with individual rights superseding group rights for most things (huqooq-ul-ibad, under state and penal code control) and they relate to wellness in this world. Laws should not protect an ancient custom (pashtunwali) nor protect right attributed to a religious diety (hindu, muslim, jew) i.e. huqooq ul llah should not be imposed by the state].

[شمله ور خراساني]

one could say a lot of things, I agree; you want me to say something about my random love for salafi quisine.

Yes the staunch muslims of pakhtunkhwa I forgot about that. Reminds me of a time, some years back, when I met a friend during ramadan at a funeral in pakhtunland. We were high in the backcountry, he a urbanized pashtun, from peshwar, recently engaged to someone from our neck of the woods.

His first shock came, when in broad day light the dead womens son asked the 'melmanaa' if they were hungry, those that shook there head in the affirmitive, quietly went to the back and filled their tanks, later he got a second shock when on seeing the, cutt (bed with corpse) traditionally carried by all faithfull, he jumped up and ran to give it a 'oogaa' (shoulder) as it is considered 'sawab'. After seeing no one else do it, he came back to the chairs and said, nothing. I could sense his unease so told him, calm down man, these peaple are relaxed about these things, they dont worry too much about this and that.

wrora sangar, nobody in my village knew how to offer a proper prayer, let alone fast properly and I am not talking centuries ago, I am talking only 30-40 years ago. Only the khans kept parda (like the hindu nobility) and that too as a public statement, the majority in the village cared less. Ask your elders they will tell you about how staunch your forefathers were.



But which religion, Growing up, I dont remember a single salafi in my village, except a homosexual tableeghay cousin, twenty some years ago. And no body beat him up only because he was our cousin.

Now 30-35 years ago, they were less than 1%. How can you call salafi/wahabi islamic practices as an intrinsic part of pashtun identity and customs, when they did not even exist only 35 years ago. Remember pashtoon is thousand of years old phenomenon.

You can only call it a trend. Funded by those that wishes to and benefits from, our destruction. By destroying our pashtun identity and our tolerant customs and replacing them with salafi inspired bedouin hatred.

Calling your version as islam does not make it the islam my and your forefathers practiced. Even the qadianis call there stuff islam, so you calling salafi-toxicity islam does not make it that islam. If you are man enough kindly share what sect of Islam did your grandfather practice and how staunch was he on salafi/wahabi rituals.

Well, since you are an atheist and a supporter of evolitionist ideology, we could assume that based on your beliefs you might be the one who questions his masculinity. Because you have a gay cousin and you might have gay genes.

Your whole post was a useless rant.

I did not claim that all Pashtuns are on the Salafi methodology or creed. Just because many villagers are juhaal like yours and are ignorant of their religion doesn't mean they are all kaafirs. Ignorance is not a sin in Islam.

And Salafi creed is not a new sect. It is a revivalist movement that emphasizes the core texts of Islam rather than hearsay of Mullah's.


You might live in a pre-Islamic fantasy world of Pashtuns. But that world doesn't exist for more than one thousand years.

If you have anything useful to say, you are welcome. But your silly stories of your gay cousin and your jaahil villagers are useless information.

[Baygham]

Well, since you are an atheist and a supporter of evolitionist ideology, we could assume that based on your beliefs you might be the one who questions his masculinity. Because you have a gay cousin and you might have gay genes.

Your whole post was a useless rant.

I did not claim that all Pashtuns are on the Salafi methodology or creed. Just because many villagers are juhaal like yours and are ignorant of their religion doesn't mean they are all kaafirs. Ignorance is not a sin in Islam.

And Salafi creed is not a new sect. It is a revivalist movement that emphasizes the core texts of Islam rather than hearsay of Mullah's.


You might live in a pre-Islamic fantasy world of Pashtuns. But that world doesn't exist for more than one thousand years.

If you have anything useful to say, you are welcome. But your silly stories of your gay cousin and your jaahil villagers are useless information.

Still waiting for an answer, your gay/jahil/apostate friend Baygham.

If you are man enough kindly share what sect of Islam did your grandfather practice and how staunch was he on salafi/wahabi rituals.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Still waiting for an answer, your gay/jahil/apostate friend Baygham.

I am man enough. I don't have any gay cousins. And My grandfathers were Sunni Muslims.

But the thing is, even if my grandfathers were Hindus or Bhuddists. So what?

I am not the one here arguing for superiority of my race or ethnicity. I am a Muslim. And like Akbarkhan has pointed out, we do not believe that any ethnicity is any better than the other. It is against our beliefs.

It is you, the Nationalists who are the ones arguing that your race and ethnicity is unique.

And your question is just an attempt to divert the discourse.

Because you claimed that your love for lamb and red wine comes from your Pashtun roots. And this common interests is a motive for you lots to be Pashtun Nationalists.

And I asked you why you have rejected the faith of your fellow Pashtuns. Becuase if you have commonalities with your fellow Pashtuns, why do you have apostated and are now attacking the religion of Islam here on Pashtunforums?

Obviously you were cornered there. So You assumed with the two braincells you have left after all the wine drinking, that you can return the challenge on me.

And I have explained to you that Salafiyyah is not a different religion. It is in essence fundamentals of Islam.

However you would like ot label it.

Again, even if my grandfathers were hindus or bhuddists. I don't care. I am a Muslim alhamdulilah and you are disbeleiver. And that is what counts.

[Baygham]

I am man enough. I don't have any gay cousins. And My grandfathers were Sunni Muslims. ………...

Grave worshippers I am sure, like mine, both murtads according to your new classification and thus worth killing according to salafi doctrine. Right.

………………….
I am not the one here arguing for superiority of my race or ethnicity. I am a Muslim. And like Akbarkhan has pointed out, we do not believe that any ethnicity is any better than the other. It is against our beliefs.

It is you, the Nationalists who are the ones arguing that your race and ethnicity is unique.

And your question is just an attempt to divert the discourse.

Because you claimed that your love for lamb and red wine comes from your Pashtun roots. And this common interests is a motive for you lots to be Pashtun Nationalists.

…………………………….

Only a fool will argue the superiority of the pashtoons, who on most parameters of global progress are at the bottom of all major cultures of the world. Where did you get that idea.
Nobody can argue against the fact though that it is unique, so is Chinese, Indian, german, Punjabi, Arab of saudia and arab of sudan.

As for the love of lamb, (I did not say wine, I said wine sauce which for your information does not contain alcohol so calm down) it is not in my DNA or in the soil, it comes from shared common experience inside a culture and thus a shared memory, a building block of a culture.

And I asked you why you have rejected the faith of your fellow Pashtuns. Becuase if you have commonalities with your fellow Pashtuns, why do you have apostated and are now attacking the religion of Islam here on Pashtunforums?

…………………….

First you don’t know what I believe in or not. Secondly you have done the same. You have apostated against the pashtoon religion of sunni islam which you now call ‘grave worshipping’. How are you different. The pashtoon sunni islam is not the wahabi/Saudi islam that you are now pushing thanks to Arabian dollars.

...........

And I have explained to you that Salafiyyah is not a different religion. It is in essence fundamentals of Islam.

However you would like ot label it.

Again, even if my grandfathers were hindus or bhuddists. I don't care. I am a Muslim alhamdulilah and you are disbeleiver. And that is what counts.

Well I label you a wahabi disbeliever, killer of pashtoons and Pashto and on payroll of ISI and Saudi dogs.
These polar views I am sure will achieve much for both of our families in pashtoon land.

[شمله ور خراساني]

^ this is what Admin Khan calls "proffessional debating"

[Baygham]

^ this is what Admin Khan calls "proffessional debating"

I call it, 'well I dont have answer lets call it professional debating'.