Have you ever learned about Islam from a non muslim?

[Shapur]

I came across a youtube video where a non muslim was explaining why we need to make intention or make a dua before doing different things. My mom keeps telling me to read dua for this and for that, basically for everything. I didn't pay much attention as I didn't see any point in it and wasn't satisfied with the usual explanation that it is a sunnah etc but this non muslim explained what the purpose of making dua is which now makes me want to read duas before doing different things.
Have you bad a similar experience?

[Firdousi]

I came across a youtube video where a non muslim was explaining why we need to make intention or make a dua before doing different things. My mom keeps telling me to read dua for this and for that, basically for everything. I didn't pay much attention as I didn't see any point in it and wasn't satisfied with the usual explanation that it is a sunnah etc but this non muslim explained what the purpose of making dua is which now makes me want to read duas before doing different things.
Have you bad a similar experience?

Yes. I read this book like then years ago, "The Sealed Nectar" by an Indian Muslim. It was awfully written and extremely biased. Since then I decided to stop reading Islamic books written by Muslims. So now when I want to learn something about Islam I rely on Western sources and scholars (I am talking about reliable and unbiased Western sources, not Bernard Lewis lol) basically because Western scholars tend to be a bit more rational, unbiased and non-fanboys lol

[Charsi Malang]

I came across a youtube video where a non muslim was explaining why we need to make intention or make a dua before doing different things. My mom keeps telling me to read dua for this and for that, basically for everything. I didn't pay much attention as I didn't see any point in it and wasn't satisfied with the usual explanation that it is a sunnah etc but this non muslim explained what the purpose of making dua is which now makes me want to read duas before doing different things.
Have you bad a similar experience?

I can understand where you are coming from. Our people have blind irrational faith which more often than not is harmful.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Yes. I read this book like then years ago, "The Sealed Nectar" by an Indian Muslim. It was awfully written and extremely biased. Since then I decided to stop reading Islamic books written by Muslims. So now when I want to learn something about Islam I rely on Western sources and scholars (I am talking about reliable and unbiased Western sources, not Bernard Lewis lol) basically because Western scholars tend to be a bit more rational, unbiased and non-fanboys lol

Saifurrahman Mubarakpuri is biased? How?

[Firdousi]

Saifurrahman Mubarakpuri is biased? How?

Because it is biased, dude. The guy is always trying to prove how right was the Prophet all the time. He is even praising him openly. From an Islamic point of view I guess its ok, but I am looking for something different. Thats why I try to rely more on Western scholars than Islamic scholars.

[maneatinglizard]

Yes. I read this book like then years ago, "The Sealed Nectar" by an Indian Muslim. It was awfully written and extremely biased. Since then I decided to stop reading Islamic books written by Muslims. So now when I want to learn something about Islam I rely on Western sources and scholars (I am talking about reliable and unbiased Western sources, not Bernard Lewis lol) basically because Western scholars tend to be a bit more rational, unbiased and non-fanboys lol

I can see what you mean regarding later Islamic history, where looking at events from multiple perspectives can be valuable in figuring out how things went wrong.

But when it comes to Seerah, I don't see how a non-Muslim could do any better a job than a Muslim. All the primary sources for the biography of Rasulullah (salla Allahu alayhi wa salam) are Muslim, so even if a non-Muslim writes a biography, he's relying on Muslim sources. In fact, in my experience non-Muslim tellings of early Muslim history are usually pretty bad, for the simple reason that they generally don't accept the methodology of early Islamic historians and muhaddiths, but still rely on their reports. So instead of using the systematic hadith science to determine which reports are reliable and which aren't, they basically just pick and choose whichever fit the narrative they're going for.

Maybe the problem you had was just with the book itself? The Sealed Nectar has been criticized for being overly dry, and overly focused on the military expeditions of Rasulullah (salla Allahu alayhi wa salam).

[Firdousi]

I can see what you mean regarding later Islamic history, where looking at events from multiple perspectives can be valuable in figuring out how things went wrong.

But when it comes to Seerah, I don't see how a non-Muslim could do any better a job than a Muslim. All the primary sources for the biography of Rasulullah (salla Allahu alayhi wa salam) are Muslim, so even if a non-Muslim writes a biography, he's relying on Muslim sources. In fact, in my experience non-Muslim tellings of early Muslim history are usually pretty bad, for the simple reason that they generally don't accept the methodology of early Islamic historians and muhaddiths, but still rely on their reports. So instead of using the systematic hadith science to determine which reports are reliable and which aren't, they basically just pick and choose whichever fit the narrative they're going for.

Maybe the problem you had was just with the book itself? The Sealed Nectar has been criticized for being overly dry, and overly focused on the military expeditions of Rasulullah (salla Allahu alayhi wa salam).

It depends. When I want to study the Quran I try to rely on both, Islamic and Western sources. When it comes to Tafsirs, I recommend Islamic scholars. Muhammad Assad wrote one of the best Tafsirs in the Islamic history, with plenty of sources, explanations, quotes, and so on.

Regarding Sirahs, yeah its true we have to rely on early Islamic sources such as Hadiths, but I believe we should take Hadiths with a grain of salt. Many Hadiths, even those considered "sahih", contradict other Hadiths. Thats why I also try to study non Islamic sources. I want to stress on this, RELIABLE WESTERN SOURCES.. This doesnt mean all Western scholars are right just because they are Westerners. I find people like Karen Armstrong liberal apologetics who are trying to portray Islam as some sort of Liberal religion which doesnt make any sense.

Liberals are always trying to manipualte things in order to use them as a political tool for their domestic agendas. We must be careful because the liberal discurse is the predominant in the universities and in the academia so they will always try to "intoxicate" everything in order to fit in their anti-Western agenda. Muslims should be careful adn dont allow liberals to use us in their stupid battles.

[Firdousi]

I would like to share a personal experience regarding how Liberals, even the Liberal scholars, are always trying to manipulate things in order to use them for their personal agenda and why we should be careful with some Western works regarding Islam.

Many years ago I met a Spanish lady, who had turned to Islam few years before I met her. She was the typical Western lady: pro-LBGT, pro-feminism anti-Christianism, pro-multiculturalism, pro-social liberalism, etc. This lady also happened to be a teacher in an university in Barcelona. At the beggining I was very curious because I want to know about her experience as Muslimah and why she had become Muslimah.

After talking to her I began to realize that she had turned to Islam because she hated Christianism. She didnt really care about the core and basic teachings of Islam. She had this hilarious and sugar coated opinion about Islam being some sort of pro-gay faith. She even told me once that Muslim Ulemahs in India had issued several fatwas claiming that Hinduism and Islam were almost the same faith!!! This lady had even written several books about Islam, spreading his hilarious and confusing ideas.

After this experience I came to the conclusion that also Western scholars who claim to be rational and unbiased cant be trusted 100% because they are ideologically and politically influenced by the Western liberal discurse. I bought several books translated into several European languages from Rumi, Khayyam and Hafez, and I was so shocked to find out how Westerners were trying always to portray those people as some sort of ahteist, liberal, pro-feminist gays.

Thats why I dont trust much of the Western works because they can be as unreliable and biased as Muslim fanboy scholars.

[ذو الفقار]

Zafrullah Khan, Pakistan's first Foreign Minister, wrote a beautiful book in English "Muhammad: Seal of the Prophets" divided into the following chapters:

1. Early Years

2. The Divine Call

3. Persecution

4. Steadfastness

5. Migration

6. Regulation of Fighting

7. Badr

8. Uhud

9. Treachery

10. Siege

11. Treason

12. Truce

13. Victory

14. Farewell

15. Excellent Exemplar

The last chapter is full of quotes from Western and Orientalist writers confessing the amazing personal character, kindness and magnetism of the Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam).

On my blog I have also written some anecdotal articles on lesser known aspects of the Prophet's life, and will continue to write more on it (In Sha Allah)

رَبَّ جِبْرِيلَ وَمِيكَائِيلَ وَإِسْرَافِيلَ أَعِذْنِي مِنْ حَرِّ النَّارِ وَعَذَابِ الْقَبْرِ: Sirat-un-Nabi

[Samandri]

Zafrullah Khan, Pakistan's first Foreign Minister, wrote a beautiful book in English "Muhammad: Seal of the Prophets" divided into the following chapters:

1. Early Years

2. The Divine Call

3. Persecution

4. Steadfastness

5. Migration

6. Regulation of Fighting

7. Badr

8. Uhud

9. Treachery

10. Siege

11. Treason

12. Truce

13. Victory

14. Farewell

15. Excellent Exemplar

The last chapter is full of quotes from Western and Orientalist writers confessing the amazing personal character, kindness and magnetism of the Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam).

On my blog I have also written some anecdotal articles on lesser known aspects of the Prophet's life, and will continue to write more on it (In Sha Allah)

رَبَّ جِبْرِيلَ وَمِيكَائِيلَ وَإِسْرَافِيلَ أَعِذْنِي مِنْ حَرِّ النَّارِ وَعَذَابِ الْقَبْرِ: Sirat-un-Nabi

Zafrullah Khan, Pakistan's first foreign minister, was a known Qadiani.

[ذو الفقار]

Zafrullah Khan, Pakistan's first foreign minister, was a known Qadiani.

And you consider "Qadianis" as non-Muslim;

but isn't the title of this thread "Have you ever learned about Islam from a non-Muslim"

Isn't that why you recommended Life of Mahomet by William Muir before you quickly deleted that post?

[Kakar-Wardak]

It depends. When I want to study the Quran I try to rely on both, Islamic and Western sources. When it comes to Tafsirs, I recommend Islamic scholars. Muhammad Assad wrote one of the best Tafsirs in the Islamic history, with plenty of sources, explanations, quotes, and so on.

Regarding Sirahs, yeah its true we have to rely on early Islamic sources such as Hadiths, but I believe we should take Hadiths with a grain of salt. Many Hadiths, even those considered "sahih", contradict other Hadiths. Thats why I also try to study non Islamic sources. I want to stress on this, RELIABLE WESTERN SOURCES.. This doesnt mean all Western scholars are right just because they are Westerners. I find people like Karen Armstrong liberal apologetics who are trying to portray Islam as some sort of Liberal religion which doesnt make any sense.

Liberals are always trying to manipualte things in order to use them as a political tool for their domestic agendas. We must be careful because the liberal discurse is the predominant in the universities and in the academia so they will always try to "intoxicate" everything in order to fit in their anti-Western agenda. Muslims should be careful adn dont allow liberals to use us in their stupid battles.

Hadith are too easily dismissed by laymen because of lack of knowledge, even great scholars of Islam struggled with understanding hadith .

Ibn Wahb is also reported to have said:

Were it not for Malik ibn Anas and al-Layth ibn Sa`d I would have perished; I used to think everything that is [authentically] related from the Prophet – Allâh bless and greet him – must be put into practice.”

“I gathered a lot of ahadith and they drove me to confusion. I would consult Malik and al-Layth and they would say to me, ‘take this and leave this.”

[khushal]

Yes. I read this book like then years ago, "The Sealed Nectar" by an Indian Muslim. It was awfully written and extremely biased. Since then I decided to stop reading Islamic books written by Muslims. So now when I want to learn something about Islam I rely on Western sources and scholars (I am talking about reliable and unbiased Western sources, not Bernard Lewis lol) basically because Western scholars tend to be a bit more rational, unbiased and non-fanboys lol

Scholars are taught to be unbiased and only report and write accurate material since they know history will judge them on what they write. If we read about history, we and especially scholars only respect the ones who reported accurate material and its not that difficult to investigate to see who wrote for propaganda and who did not.
People like Zakir Niak and other Muslims like him are not real scholars so they don't really know the consequences of their reporting and how important it is to report material accurately and if they don't know they should say so.

[khushal]

I came across a youtube video where a non muslim was explaining why we need to make intention or make a dua before doing different things. My mom keeps telling me to read dua for this and for that, basically for everything. I didn't pay much attention as I didn't see any point in it and wasn't satisfied with the usual explanation that it is a sunnah etc but this non muslim explained what the purpose of making dua is which now makes me want to read duas before doing different things.
Have you bad a similar experience?

show us the video Shapur

[Firdousi]

Scholars are taught to be unbiased and only report and write accurate material since they know history will judge them on what they write. If we read about history, we and especially scholars only respect the ones who reported accurate material and its not that difficult to investigate to see who wrote for propaganda and who did not.
People like Zakir Niak and other Muslims like him are not real scholars so they don't really know the consequences of their reporting and how important it is to report material accurately and if they don't know they should say so.

Religious people are like fanboys. Zakir Naik is a fanboy and most of religious people due to their own biases will always agree with him. It reminds me of Tabari. Many years ago I read an article about him on an Islamic website and I was shocked how in his tafsir the guy was always like "God want this wants that". It was biased.