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Challange to Awlakis arguments for deliberately targeting civilians

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  • Challange to Awlakis arguments for deliberately targeting civilians

    Anwar al-Awlaki is often cited by those who argue in favour of deliberately targeting and killing civilians – i.e with bombs, shootings etc. His statements are also used in AQ’s official publications as justifications for their attacks. However, one need only examine his “evidence” to see that it is riddled with contradictions as well as distortions of clear Islamic principles (which may be considered innovations). I want to refer to his own teachings and quotes here, although I do not want to cite them directly (which would of course be preferable) because of the risk to me as a result of spreading his literature (especially due to the climate in the wake of the Paris attacks). The articles can be found however by searching for the quotes which I will share.


    Firstly, in the early days of Islam there was a principle called bayat which involved launching attacks at night. Since visibility was difficult, civilians were sometimes killed unintentionally since it was unavoidable, although they were NOT the target. We refer to this now as “collateral damage”. In this case, the civilians are NOT the intended target but were killed unintentionally. Awlaki contradicts himself with the two following sentences. Firstly:


    "The attackers would ambush the enemy in their tents and houses and engage them in fighting. This would lead to the deaths of men, women and children who were in the tents or homes because of the difficulty distinguishing between man, woman and child.

    He then concludes from this that:

    "There is no difference in ruling between bayat and detonating a bomb in a populated center in a nation that is at war with the Muslims."

    It is obvious that there is a BIG difference between bayat and leaving a bomb in a populated civilian area (i.e sports stadium, bus, tourist attraction or suchlike). In bayat, civilians die not because they are the primary target, whereas in the bomb attack, civilians ARE the target. This has thus been taken out of context and twisted/distorted to permit something that has been conclusively proven to be HARAAM.



    Similarly, he does the same thing with the concept of collateral damage as a result of the use of mangonals. Mongonals were a type catapult used to destroy fortifications and walls in cities. Naturally these types of weapons were indiscriminate and inaccurate – even today “precision bombing” is notoriously deadly to civilians. It was permissible to use these weapons even if civilians were sometimes caught up as a result, although once again – this is an example of collateral damage, since it was not the civilians who were the express target of the attack. Awlaki used the precedent of mangonals to claim that it is permissible to leave a bomb in a civilian area to deliberately targets civilians - which is COMPLETELY different from the mangonal precedent.

    Awlaki resorts to making up rulings based on his own ideas, for example:

    “Therefore, if you ask me as a tactic, is targeting the civilian population of the West a good thing to do? I would say yes, because it is much more potent and powerful. Soldiers are expected to die anyway. That's why they sign up for the army, to fight and kill or be killed. So a soldier is at risk anyway and that risk is factored into his job. But a civilian is not. So when you hit the civilian you hit them where it hurts most and that is what our tactics are about”


    This opinion is NOT based on sharia. He then basically refutes HIMSELF with the following quote:


    “On the other hand, we know of the hadīth that prohibits the killing of women and children, so how can we combine what was mentioned below with such hadīth. The answer is that women and children should not be singled out, should not be specifically targeted and if they fall as prisoners of war it is not allowed to execute them. Throughout our history whenever women and children would fall captives there lives were spared unlike with the crusaders for example who slaughtered thousands of Muslim prisoners or the Moguls who wiped out the entire populations of numerous Muslims cities.”

    Then he contradicts himself again:

    “However when men, women and children are mixed and integrated such as in a city or village there is no doubt that it is allowed to target them while carrying the intentions of not specifically targeting the women and children. Therefore, an attack on a population center such as a US, British, French or German city with a bomb or a firearm attack is definitely allowed.”

    All cities have men, women and children mixed. So then he makes the very bizarre conclusion that even though it’s not permissible to target women and children - a bomb or gun attack on a population centre is permissible. At best here he is contradicting himself and worst he is scraping the barrel and trying to find loopholes to try to circumvent the Sharia of Allah (this is a sin btw).

    If this is the best attempt by a famous so-called “scholar of jihad”, then clearly the Islamic basis for deliberate attacks against civilians is extremely weak. This does not prevent some who claim that because that an opinion exists – the course of action is therefore valid.

  • #2
    So this is what muslims and Islam has been brought too.... Arguining either it is right to kill civilians or not. That this discussion even excist is beyond me.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Khostai View Post
      So this is what muslims and Islam has been brought too.... Arguining either it is right to kill civilians or not. That this discussion even excist is beyond me.
      Yes its sad because it is one of those principles in Islam that is crystal clear. Its blindlingly apparent from the quotes I provided that the attempt to make it halal is a very desperate one. Awlaki is peddled is some kind of giant of Islamic knowledge,, whilst this demonstrates that he simply had his idea which he tried and failed to justify from Islam.

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      • #4
        Few things. First of all, Anwar al Awlaki was a very noble brother who was martyred. Have some decency and manners when talking about the dead. Especially righteous and noble people who have contributed to the awakening of hunreds of thousands of Muslims.

        Second, what he said is not his personal opinion. A great scholar, Ibn Uthaymeen explained a verse of the Qur'an where retribution was mentioned. He went against consensus of Muslim jurists and tafseer scholars.

        Al Qaeda and other militants elaborated on his opinion by gathering more spurious arguments to justify targetting of civilians.

        If a major scholar says anything that is against the consensus of the Muslim scholars throughout the ages, it doesn't mean it is a valid opinion. However, we should not go and attack people who merely follow their opinion. Everyone can be wrong and make mistakes.

        Awlaki and Ibn Uthaymeen are no longer here, so we can't confront them with their errors.

        We should address the claim made by ISIS & Al Qaeda and provide them with conclusive evidence where these actions are rendered haram by classic jurists like an-Nawawi and Ibn Taymiyyah.

        By attacking Alwaki or Ibn Uthaymeen personally and making condescending remaks about them, we won't achieve anything good.
        Last edited by Shamlawar Khurasani; 11-30-2015, 07:08 PM.
        Originally posted by Firdousi
        Never talk with Afghans about politics. All their political knowledge is limited to conspiracy theories, political demonization and contradictions. No logic, no reason.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Shamlawar Khurasani View Post
          We should address the claim made by ISIS & Al Qaeda and provide them with conclusive evidence where these actions are rendered haram by classic jurists like an-Nawawi and Ibn Taymiyyah.
          AQ cite Awlaki's statements as justifications for their atrocities, and they advocate additional attacks based on his views. This includes heinous acts such as leaving nail bombs in public civilian areas.

          As you can see from the quotes I provided, he bases his views not from established Islamic standpoints, but instead twists clear principles to permit something forbiddden - and contradicts himself. On one hand he provides evidence against targeting civilians and the tries to find a loophole around it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Shamlawar Khurasani View Post
            Few things. First of all, Anwar al Awlaki was a very noble brother who was martyred. Have some decency and manners when talking about the dead. Especially righteous and noble people who have contributed to the awakening of hunreds of thousands of Muslims.

            Second, what he said is not his personal opinion. A great scholar, Ibn Uthaymeen explained a verse of the Qur'an where retribution was mentioned. He went against consensus of Muslim jurists and tafseer scholars.

            Al Qaeda and other militants elaborated on his opinion by gathering more spurious arguments to justify targetting of civilians.

            If a major scholar says anything that is against the consensus of the Muslim scholars throughout the ages, it doesn't mean it is a valid opinion. However, we should not go and attack people who merely follow their opinion. Everyone can be wrong and make mistakes.

            Awlaki and Ibn Uthaymeen are no longer here, so we can't confront them with their errors.

            We should address the claim made by ISIS & Al Qaeda and provide them with conclusive evidence where these actions are rendered haram by classic jurists like an-Nawawi and Ibn Taymiyyah.

            By attacking Alwaki or Ibn Uthaymeen personally and making condescending remaks about them, we won't achieve anything good.
            Terrorism and destruction is awakening to you? People like u are the problem, who always support terrorism and kill innocent muslims and non muslims in the name of islam, your wahabi ideology is from Satan, it can not be coming from Allah

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Khostai View Post
              So this is what muslims and Islam has been brought too.... Arguining either it is right to kill civilians or not. That this discussion even excist is beyond me.
              SalafiS Wahabis have taken over Islam and they are brutal, Isis are pure salafis. Real message of Islam is dead

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mohammed View Post
                AQ cite Awlaki's statements as justifications for their atrocities, and they advocate additional attacks based on his views. This includes heinous acts such as leaving nail bombs in public civilian areas.

                As you can see from the quotes I provided, he bases his views not from established Islamic standpoints, but instead twists clear principles to permit something forbiddden - and contradicts himself. On one hand he provides evidence against targeting civilians and the tries to find a loophole around it.
                No, Al Qaeda decided to target civilians in early 90's. Back then, Al Awlaki wasn't even known. Bin Laden made video's and statements back then. Other Salafi Jihadi ideologues from Jordan, Syria and Egypt also reasoned they can kill civilians.

                Al Awlaki turned a radical after being held in prison in Yemen and tortured. He came out of prison as a firebrand and basically reproduced same arguments used a decade earlier by senior AQ ideologues.

                Note, Al Awlaki was a talanted caller to Islam, not a scholar. He didn't have the necessary knowledge to derive rulings from sources of law.
                Originally posted by Firdousi
                Never talk with Afghans about politics. All their political knowledge is limited to conspiracy theories, political demonization and contradictions. No logic, no reason.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Karachi View Post
                  Terrorism and destruction is awakening to you? People like u are the problem, who always support terrorism and kill innocent muslims and non muslims in the name of islam, your wahabi ideology is from Satan, it can not be coming from Allah
                  Here, and be quiet!

                  Originally posted by Firdousi
                  Never talk with Afghans about politics. All their political knowledge is limited to conspiracy theories, political demonization and contradictions. No logic, no reason.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Karachi View Post
                    SalafiS Wahabis have taken over Islam and they are brutal, Isis are pure salafis. Real message of Islam is dead
                    What do you mean by taken over. Don't exaggerate, there's nearly 2 billion of us.
                    ----------

                    *You cannot climb the ladder of success with your hands in your pockets*

                    Originally posted by Karachi
                    like I said, there was only one reason I pretended to be pathan, for a girl, who was from Afghan forums and also registered here

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Khostai View Post
                      So this is what muslims and Islam has been brought too.... Arguining either it is right to kill civilians or not. That this discussion even excist is beyond me.
                      Can you explain what collateral damage is and how it is viewed by your western masters like Israel and America to kill millions. Or does only 1 side of your brain work?
                      ----------

                      *You cannot climb the ladder of success with your hands in your pockets*

                      Originally posted by Karachi
                      like I said, there was only one reason I pretended to be pathan, for a girl, who was from Afghan forums and also registered here

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Manzareh View Post
                        Can you explain what collateral damage is and how it is viewed by your western masters like Israel and America to kill millions. Or does only 1 side of your brain work?
                        My brain works perfectly, and I don't understand why in very discussion you compare yourself to the Westerners? Are the kafirs your moral supiriors? So if they do things its oke to do it yourself? Please stop with your monkey see monkey do mentality and grow a brain.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          While there is no moral justification, both sides target civilians if it is in their best interest.

                          One side calls it collateral damage and the other side calls it revenge. Neither of those "excuses" are valid.

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