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Takfeer is not the same as issuing a death sentence

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  • Takfeer is not the same as issuing a death sentence

    Allot of people believe that making takfeer is a very dangerous matter. They also say that the one who declares another person as a kaafir, also believes that person should be killed.

    This is an often repeated claim by some opponents of Islam and Muslims, be it crypto Kafirs or atheists and ex-Muslims.


    This claim is false for a number of reasons.

    Takfeer, as I have explained elsewhere on this forum, is an observation. I will explain this by an example:

    In Qur'an, we read how committing adultery, murder, theft and other matters are labeled as sins/crimes. Based on this, we know that these acts are sins.

    Similarly, in Qur'an certain acts are described as shirk and kufr. They are worse than theft, adultery and murder. Because in Islam, the highest sin is to disbelieve in Allah or to associate partners with him in Worship.

    So if we see a person committing an armed robbery, we observe his actions and we say: I saw an armed robber. We ascribe robbery and theft, maybe even murder to that person based on his actions we have observed with our own eyes.

    Observing a person committing these crimes and labeling him as a criminal, a murder or a thief is rational, jusfitiable and logical. There is no harm in doing so if we have actually observed the person committing those crimes.

    Similarly, if a person worships something other than Allah, we call him a mushrik. Because worshipping anything else beside Allah is shirk. We know so because in Qur'an, worship and shirk are defined. Thus based on our own observations, we conclude that hte person who worships anything else is a kaafir and a mushrik.

    With regards to punishment, just like in the case of murder and theft, individuals are not allowed to punish people. Punishing people is the job of a government. Therefore, a judge has to investigate the matter, hear all witnesses, examine the evidence and question the suspect. Based on his investigation, the judge will eventually issue a sentence.

    If a person witnesses a crime, he is allowed to say: I saw a man committing a crime. In the eyes of the witness, the person becomes a criminal. However, the witness is not the judge.

    The problem arises when people distort this and use it to misguide people. For instance, Khomeini issued a fatwa where he ordered everyone to go and kill Salman Rushdie. The fatwa of Khomeini is invalid on many grounds.

    First of all, Khomeini is a shiite who openly promotes worship of false deities. therefore, as a mushrik, he cannot be a legitimate authority for Muslims. So anything he says, is in no way of concern to us as Muslims.

    aside from him being a disbeliever himself, he also commits blashphemy in his books where he curses and insults wives of Prophet Muhammed and his companions. He is in many ways, worse than Salman Rushdie.

    Even if Khomeini was a Muslim and even if Iranian shiite state was in fact a legitimate monotheist Islamic state, a fatwa like his would never be valid. Because a judge cannot give random people the authority to go and carry out death sentences against citizens of other countries. A fatwa of that nature would require a declaration of war against other nations. Only in state of war, can the authorities allow the citizens to bare arms on behalf of the state and become part of the armed forces and enforce the law.

    Furthermore, enforcing the law of one state inside the territory of another state is invalid. A legitimate state doesn't send civilians with a mission to go into another country's territory to carry out a death sentence.

    If we study the Islamic jurisprudence, we find that these matters are all contrary to many principles of our system of law. Long before formation of modern nation states, the Islamic world had its own laws for international affairs. Muslim states knew what is legal and what is illegal.

    Therefore, issuing a fatwa of that kind doesn't have a precentence in our legal system.

    People who cite fatwa of Khomeini and similar populist statements by certain leaders need to learn Islamic law. A populist demagogue can cite the whole Qur'an as evidence to justify his own actions, but that doesn't mean its legal or legitimate.

    In conclusion, I hope I clarified this matter so that members here understand why takfeer doesn't mean a death sentence. Similarly, I hope you now understand that issuing death sentences against people is not a joke.

    We should deal with these matters of Islamic faith with utmost care and we should know every concept of our sharia properly.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with observing and describing something as kufr. If we see a hindu, a jew or a christian, we acknowledge that they are not Muslims. The same applies to people who claim Islam but believe in other prophet like Qadyanis. Similarly, people who believe in divnity of their imams, saints, or if they believe in legitimacy of man made laws, they are all not Muslims. There is no problem saying this. It's not a sin, its an act of obedience to Allah. By making takfeer on such people, we abide by Allah's ruling.
    Originally posted by Firdousi
    Never talk with Afghans about politics. All their political knowledge is limited to conspiracy theories, political demonization and contradictions. No logic, no reason.

  • #2
    Instead of being a hypocrite and calling others "Kafirs". why don't you teach and proselytize them first to the Glorious Qu'ran. If they reject or mock the truth, leave them to God. As Allah is the most knowing.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by کیش View Post
      Instead of being a hypocrite and calling others "Kafirs". why don't you teach and proselytize them first to the Glorious Qu'ran. If they reject or mock the truth, leave them to God. As Allah is the most knowing.
      to proselytize is to persuade people to change their beliefs. Maybe you should study Qur'an yourself. In Qur'an it is specifically mentioned that we cannot change other people's beliefs. In fact, the Prophet Muhammed sal allahu alayhi wasalam is repeatedly told in different verses that he cannot change peoples beliefs.

      What we do have to do as Muslims, and what the Prophets also have been commanded to do is convey the message and pray for people's guidance.

      I've posted many books, video's, articles and I have shared allot of beneficial information about Islam on this forum. Since 2010, I have probably posted hundreds of beneficial stuff here.

      Don't attack me because I say something that conflicts with your beliefs. Either respond appropriately or don't. Don't say things that aren't true.
      Originally posted by Firdousi
      Never talk with Afghans about politics. All their political knowledge is limited to conspiracy theories, political demonization and contradictions. No logic, no reason.

      Comment


      • #4
        "if they believe in legitimacy of man made laws".
        i didn't understand this part, please elaborate a little. i appreciate your knowledge though.
        you mean man didn't have the authority to make laws?
        also what do you consider of "mota practice" which shia do.
        i did a little research once, and upto my knowledge it was practiced in Muhammad (PBUH) time and Abubakar but was latter banned at the time of Umar.
        is this man made law legitimate?

        another question is should muslim make laws in order to achieve the pure essence of islamic society or should they make laws as per traditional islamic laws.
        what will be the objective.
        example is cutting off robber hand as a punishment. this was a law at the time of prophet, objective was to minimize robberies. today if we can minimize robberies though rule of law which is much more acceptable in a society and optimum and does not contradict islamic principal. should we go this way or cutting off robber hand?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Shamlawar Khurasani View Post
          to proselytize is to persuade people to change their beliefs. Maybe you should study Qur'an yourself. In Qur'an it is specifically mentioned that we cannot change other people's beliefs. In fact, the Prophet Muhammed sal allahu alayhi wasalam is repeatedly told in different verses that he cannot change peoples beliefs.

          What we do have to do as Muslims, and what the Prophets also have been commanded to do is convey the message and pray for people's guidance.

          I've posted many books, video's, articles and I have shared allot of beneficial information about Islam on this forum. Since 2010, I have probably posted hundreds of beneficial stuff here.

          Don't attack me because I say something that conflicts with your beliefs. Either respond appropriately or don't. Don't say things that aren't true.
          You just repeated the same concept of my post. Proselytize means to convert and educate others. So as a job as a Muslim, we are all bound to teach and convince others that there is no God but Allah, and Mohammad is his Messenger.

          It was not my intentions to attack you. So i'm sorry if it came out like that. But, the majority of people i have noticed who call other Kafirs without even trying to welcome them to Islam through the miraculous signs of the Qu'ran. Those are hypocrites.

          I also try my best to do my part in welcoming others to Islam. I have been investigated and still monitored by the FBI so they can scare me to stop.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by کیش View Post
            You just repeated the same concept of my post. Proselytize means to convert and educate others. So as a job as a Muslim, we are all bound to teach and convince others that there is no God but Allah, and Mohammad is his Messenger.

            It was not my intentions to attack you. So i'm sorry if it came out like that. But, the majority of people i have noticed who call other Kafirs without even trying to welcome them to Islam through the miraculous signs of the Qu'ran. Those are hypocrites.

            I also try my best to do my part in welcoming others to Islam. I have been investigated and still monitored by the FBI so they can scare me to stop.


            Making takfeer is necessary before inviting people to Islam. If you don't cosnider people as kaafirs, then why would you want to invite them to Islam in the first place?
            Originally posted by Firdousi
            Never talk with Afghans about politics. All their political knowledge is limited to conspiracy theories, political demonization and contradictions. No logic, no reason.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by marwat View Post
              "if they believe in legitimacy of man made laws".
              i didn't understand this part, please elaborate a little.
              you mean man didn't have the authority to make laws?
              Man-made laws are laws invented people people. Not all man-made laws are a problem form an Islamic perspective. For instance, a government can make laws to provide better health care, education or transportation. A good example is the laws of traffic, traffic lights etc.

              Problematic man-made laws are laws that are against Islam. For instance, in Islam, it is prohibited to buy, sell or consume alcohol. If a government issues permits for shops to sell alcohol, that would be an act of kufr. because the government permits something that is obviously prohibited in Islam.

              Another form of man-made law is, when a country designs a legal system based on an ideology which is against Islam. For example, many Arab countries have a "socialist constitution". Other Muslim countries have constitutions based on nationalism, democracy or secularism. These ideologies are the foundations of their legal system. They design laws and regulations in order promote these ideas.

              An example of an Islamic country which doesn't have any type of man-made laws doesn't exist at the moment. Because all countries mix Islamic laws with un-Islamic laws. For instance, Saudi Arabia is part of United Nations. The charter of United Nations is based on secular liberal ideology of Europeans. It is in many ways contradicting Islam.

              An ideal Islamic State would incorporate all modern aspects of human life and preserve the basic legal aspects of Islam.

              Most people believe that if you chop of hands, heads and legs, your legal system becomes Islamic. Thats incorrect. Those matters are related to al hudood. Hudood is plural of had, which means limit. Those punishments are the most severe punishments for crimes. In practice, such punishments should be only given in most severe and extreme cases. In general, if you look back at Islamic history, not many people were punished like that during the times of Khilafah centuries ago.

              However, in modern times, most Muslims have no idea how to apply their religion into modern life. This ignorance is why people are experimenting with all sorts of new ideas, including Islamism. Which is in its essence an un-Islamic idea. Islamists are utopists who claim that Islam is able to solve all problems of humanity. This idea is false because Islam doesn't solve all problems. It merely guides people towards what is right and prevents people from what is wrong. The foundation of any legal system or political system is in moral philosophy or ethics.

              Islam gives people a code of ethics, definitions of right and wrong and a limited number of laws for certain crimes and other matters.

              Islamists usually have no solutions for problems except slogans. They immitate socialists and nationalists. Back in 19th century, socialism and nationalism emerged out of French revolution as new ideas about human society. These ideas are romantic, irrational and highly superficial. But their rhetoric is very attractive and convincing for the masses.

              Many Muslims who didn't know how to deal with modernity simply borrowed the narrative of nationalists and socialists by picturing a utopic society based on Islam without any actual practical steps.

              Groups like Jamaat e Shaitani, Mufsid Brotherhood are very good at sloganeering. In reality, they have no idea how to solve problems of humanity. This is why they take part in democratic systems and sit side by side with atheists, hindu's etc claiming they are there to promote the interests of Muslims.

              A rational and realistic perspective on law and society would be to acknowledge that Muslims don't have any solutions and the task of young Muslims to to obtain education and learn what we don't know yet. If non-Muslims know anything of benefit for humanity, we need to adopt it and apply it in our own life. However, we can only take that which doesn't conflict with our faith. For instance, we can learn how they have designed their traffic laws in Germany and apply it in our own countries. We can learn from Europeans how to develop an efficient bureaucracy.

              But we can't go and legalize gay marriage. We can't become members of United Nations where we have to become signaturies to its charter which contradicts Islam. We can't go and borrow money from IMF or allow other Western isntitutions to dictate our economic and legal agenda.




              also what do you consider of "mota practice" which shia do.
              i did a little research once, and upto my knowledge it was practiced in Muhammad (PBUH) time and Abubakar but was latter banned at the time of Umar.
              is this man made law legitimate?

              With regards to Mut'ah, please watch the following to video's in this link:

              Originally posted by Firdousi
              Never talk with Afghans about politics. All their political knowledge is limited to conspiracy theories, political demonization and contradictions. No logic, no reason.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Shamlawar Khurasani View Post
                Making takfeer is necessary before inviting people to Islam. If you don't cosnider people as kaafirs, then why would you want to invite them to Islam in the first place?
                The act of Takfir is done when, for example, Muslim A accuses Muslim B of apostasy. So how can it be done before inviting people to Islam?

                The triliteral root Ka Fa Ra is mentioned 525 times in the Qu'ran. Which translate to "disbelieve" in English.

                Qu'ran 2:6

                Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe.

                People who are not Muslims, are not automatically "Kaafirs" because it is not like they believed and then disbelieved. Nor were they Muslims and then they rebelled. That is considered a "Kaafir".

                The average non-Muslim human being cannot be called Kaafir because they have not disbelieved or ignored the signs of God. They just don't know much about Islam, and have been/are being deceived by media and Khwarij. That is why it is our job as Muslims to teach and welcome our brothers and sisters to the straight path.

                Comment


                • #9
                  So non muslims are not kafirs. Hmmmm. Thats wonderful. Makes allot of sense.
                  Originally posted by Firdousi
                  Never talk with Afghans about politics. All their political knowledge is limited to conspiracy theories, political demonization and contradictions. No logic, no reason.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    i was never welcomed!
                    faye's chauffeur

                    Pashton's girlfriend

                    I'm a Pashtun Princes


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I still have to see the proof if the Quran as we now it, is not man-made.

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