Anti Islamic Thread : Atheist/Agnostic Pashtuns & Pakhtuns againts Islam

[Brown Skinned Savage]

To be fair I do not believe [MENTION=18887]Damir9000[/MENTION] is trying to suggest that Japan is not without its social ills and woes

The Herbivore Man phenomenon in Japan, maybe a pressing social issue for them currently but when it comes to Basic Measures of Welfare, Japan is still over all pretty stable.

Unfortunately this cannot be said about the vast majority of Muslim majority nations in the current time.

My exchange with Damir9000 is less to do with the merits of Japan or extolling the merits of Islam, it has more to do with Damir9000's very faulty notions about the current conditions

It's more complicated than his frankly sophomoric understanding & knowledge base they seem cognizant of.

Whatever merits Islam has is in context to it's potential and capabilities to transform. It is & has been a revolutionary movement since its inception and will continue to be so.

Islam is more internally consistent than the disoriented constructs of current secular societies, as demonstrated by the Herbivore man phenomena.

Islam is more consistent with the evolutionary basis of human drives than Secularism is and thereby making it comparatively more conducive for our interests.

However this does not mean that Islam is itself a a complete solution or that Secular tools like SCIENCE are not crucial to adopt and utilize more so than religious doctrine or ideology.

My responses to Damir9000 is that he's short sighted in concluding the apparent disaffected condition demonstrates that Islam was somehow the cause or that it is not useful to remedy the situation .or that the current primacy of Nation's like Japan was due simply due to their secular values.

This is clearly NOT so.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

To be fair I do not believe [MENTION=18887]Damir9000[/MENTION] is trying to suggest that Japan is not without its social ills and woes

The Herbivore Man phenomenon in Japan, maybe a pressing social issue for them currently but when it comes to Basic Measures of Welfare, Japan is still over all pretty stable.

Unfortunately this cannot be said about the vast majority of Muslim majority nations in the current time.

My exchange with Damir9000 is less to do with the merits of Japan or extolling the merits of Islam, it has more to do with Damir9000's very faulty notions about the current conditions

It's more complicated than his frankly sophomoric understanding & knowledge base they seem cognizant of.

Whatever merits Islam has is in context to it's potential and capabilities to transform. It is & has been a revolutionary movement since its inception and will continue to be so.

Islam is more internally consistent than the disoriented constructs of current secular societies, as demonstrated by the Herbivore man phenomena.

Islam is more consistent with the evolutionary basis of human drives than Secularism is and thereby making it comparatively more conducive for our interests.

However this does not mean that Islam is itself a a complete solution or that Secular tools like SCIENCE are not crucial to adopt and utilize more so than religious doctrine or ideology.

My responses to Damir9000 is that he's short sighted in concluding the apparent disaffected condition demonstrates that Islam was somehow the cause or that it is not useful to remedy the situation .or that the current primacy of Nation's like Japan was due simply due to their secular values.

This is clearly NOT so.

Oh I dont disagree. For example, the famous story of when the Mongols conquered some Muslim area and told a guy to keep his head on the chopping block until the mongol warrior fetched his sword and the fool on the chopping block was docile enough to do it - the point being that I don't think Islam gaurantees a race of superhumans will create a superpower in the span of 10 years and cure all the ills of society and all diseases... the Quran never promises such things.

My point is simply that its far more complex a dynamic than: "Hey look, tall buildings, starbucks, mitsubishi, etc - they must be better innately or their belief system must be better innately."

Instead its a confluence of factors like demographics, location, people power, local history, local power player involvement and so on and so forth and that if we are to make comparisons we ought to do this scientifically and rationally the way that some historians do for example when they compare the wealth and might of Rome with America by converting dollars into equivalent Roman currency and making guestimates.

Its the scientific concept of confounding that you are well aware of that plaques these arguments on both sides. One cannot take away from America's stupendous achievements as a world power by simply calling them kafir, and secularists, and gay etc etc etc. These achievements have to be recognized and analyzed in the light of immigration policy, history, chance/luck, geography.

For example, one could posit a stupid theory that African races are inherently backwards and stupid because Africa is a hot mess right now. But the reality is you can take a Nigerian out of Nigeria and put him in the right context and he can be extremely competitive (I have some electrophysiology colleagues from Nigeria that are superb). Some of the African woes emanate from local corruption, some from the age of vicious imperialism, and so on and so forth.

My point is that I agree fully with you - but I think his argument resembles that central argument that keeps getting recycled and regurgitated here which is namely: Look at all the GDP high countries and look at all the Muslim countries ---> Therefore Islam as a religion is the problem.

its a stale argument that even Westerners avoid using when they are honest folks because they know its nonsense.

[Damir9000]

Oh I dont disagree. For example, the famous story of when the Mongols conquered some Muslim area and told a guy to keep his head on the chopping block until the mongol warrior fetched his sword and the fool on the chopping block was docile enough to do it - the point being that I don't think Islam gaurantees a race of superhumans will create a superpower in the span of 10 years and cure all the ills of society and all diseases... the Quran never promises such things.

My point is simply that its far more complex a dynamic than: "Hey look, tall buildings, starbucks, mitsubishi, etc - they must be better innately or their belief system must be better innately."

Instead its a confluence of factors like demographics, location, people power, local history, local power player involvement and so on and so forth and that if we are to make comparisons we ought to do this scientifically and rationally the way that some historians do for example when they compare the wealth and might of Rome with America by converting dollars into equivalent Roman currency and making guestimates.

Its the scientific concept of confounding that you are well aware of that plaques these arguments on both sides. One cannot take away from America's stupendous achievements as a world power by simply calling them kafir, and secularists, and gay etc etc etc. These achievements have to be recognized and analyzed in the light of immigration policy, history, chance/luck, geography.

For example, one could posit a stupid theory that African races are inherently backwards and stupid because Africa is a hot mess right now. But the reality is you can take a Nigerian out of Nigeria and put him in the right context and he can be extremely competitive (I have some electrophysiology colleagues from Nigeria that are superb). Some of the African woes emanate from local corruption, some from the age of vicious imperialism, and so on and so forth.

My point is that I agree fully with you - but I think his argument resembles that central argument that keeps getting recycled and regurgitated here which is namely: Look at all the GDP high countries and look at all the Muslim countries ---> Therefore Islam as a religion is the problem.

its a stale argument that even Westerners avoid using when they are honest folks because they know its nonsense.

Do you actually believe the argument is about tall buildings, starbucks, mitsubishi ?
Who cares about GDP.
Those are just a tiny amount compared to all scientific research, progress & discoveries the has been achieved.

The funny thing is muslims always glorify the fruits & achievements of the caliphates and muslims scientists of the past and use Islam as the reason for it.
Even Europeans noticed this and understood that God doesn't do **** when they saw muslims progressing in science.
Look at Europeans now.
But what have the muslims achieved lately? nothing.

When non-muslim countries were religious as the muslims were. They didn't achieve much either.
Most african nations are religious and superstitious.

When people stop believing in fairy tales it's amazing what they can accomplish.


but nvm, it's all thanks to Shaytan right?