Are the Hajj and Umrah valid?

[Karachi]

Are the Hajj and Umrah valid? considering your money goes in the hand of the Saudi Royals and the their partners Wahabhis? and you know what they do with that money, the Royals waste it on their personal luxury and other haraam things and the wahabhis use it to expand their evil ideology across the world

I have personally boycotted Hajj and Umra, because the land is clearly occupied by these evil forces. I will only go once it is free from both of these. ALso like Dazharojaam said (I think), that the whole world is made by Allah, we dont have to go some single one place to worship him, specifically when that place is occupied by the worst people in the world

[Bengal_Tiger]

Hajj is valid and a fundamental pillar of Islam.

I disagree with some of the things the Saudis do, but it is like saying living in the USA is invalid because they have genocided the native Americans, killed 40 million people since WW2, nuked Japan, tortured Muslims in Iraq, droned civilians in Pakistan.

It is an extreme and to be quite frank absurd position to take.

[Karachi]

Hajj is valid and a fundamental pillar of Islam.

I disagree with some of the things the Saudis do, but it is like saying living in the USA is invalid because they have genocided the native Americans, killed 40 million people since WW2, nuked Japan, tortured Muslims in Iraq, droned civilians in Pakistan.

It is an extreme and to be quite frank absurd position to take.

Yes, but living in the USA is not a religious duty. It feels very unholy to give money to the Royals and Wahabhis to perform a religious duty. What have the Saudis/Wahabhis done which is right, everything they do is anti Islam/anti muslims basically. Have they every helped Palestinians? Have they ever promoted anything right in the muslim world. They only give billions of dollars to begger countries like Pakistan to have a strong hold there, even Pakistani Army/ISI is controlled by them to a very large degree

[Bengal_Tiger]

Yes, but living in the USA is not a religious duty. It feels very unholy to give money to the Royals and Wahabhis to perform a religious duty. What have the Saudis/Wahabhis done which is right, everything they do is anti Islam/anti muslims basically. Have they every helped Palestinians? Have they ever promoted anything right in the muslim world. They only give billions of dollars to begger countries like Pakistan to have a strong hold there, even Pakistani Army/ISI is controlled by them to a very large degree

Hajj is a religious obligation from Allah and we have to fulfil it.

Anything we do can be said to be "haram" (forbidden, translating this for the many guest readers of this forum) or harming Islam or helping its enemies.

Let me give you a ridiculous example. This forum is a Vbulletin forum, some crazy Wahabi could come around and then say that participating in this forum is haram as Vbulletin is an American company and they are making money from our participation and Vbulletin then gives its tax money to the American government to kill Muslims.

This is obviously nonsensical.

However we have to differentiate between performing a religious duty and propping up the Saudi government, they're two different things.

Anyway I'm no fan of the Saudis and you know more about the actual reality of living there than I do (which I do know is not pleasant) but to be fair to them they are one of the biggest donors of charity/aid in the world.

Recently they have announced giving residency to 4 million Burmese Muslims.

Just google Saudi donors and you see what they do.


It's wrong to adopt two extreme positions on them e.g. they are demons and rats, or that they are angels. They have their good side and bad side.

However Hajj is a fard, religious duty.

[DaZahroJaam.]

karachi, I agree with you and i may not be right for saying this but if i had the finances or opportunity, i would either feed the hungry or send someone else who has a greater desire for performing hajj than i do and my reason is this:

a couple of years ago, i went to mazar e sharief with my family. i will be honest with you.. they were all excited and feeling super religious, i admired the architecture of the building alot and that was about it for me.. however, once i was inside that building, i saw people of all ages, mostly without arms, legs or any sight.. and they were desperately praying or crying for whatever it was that they were praying for..
overall, i would be lying if i said, i did not have a very spiritual experience. i didn't get the same things out of that trip as other might have but i felt very calm and somewhat satisfied with my life after having been to that place..

maybe hajj is not about the process of circling around the kabbah but that place you reach inside your mind while you go through a certain distance with the idea of seeking closeness to God in your mind.

maybe muslims from countries like afghanistan or pakistan are only able to have this sort of an experience once they are in the premisses of a building that is symbolic to them in those terms. maybe they are only able to reach that level of consciousness or reconsider their actions in life by leaving behind the environment they have grown up and been raised in all their lives.

i don't believe it's accurate to say that performing hajj in today's time and age is an invalid ritual or that muslims around the world get nothing out of performing what (to the majority of them is a religious ritual but) saudies have turned in to a business.

it's noble and humble when you are able to seek closeness to God by means other than through one's pockets but human beings experience things differently and reach conclusions in life at their own pace. it's unfair for us to dismiss someone elses desire for performing hajj because we don't feel about this ritual as strongly as they do.

[Karachi]

Hajj is a religious obligation from Allah and we have to fulfil it.

Anything we do can be said to be "haram" (forbidden, translating this for the many guest readers of this forum) or harming Islam or helping its enemies.

Let me give you a ridiculous example. This forum is a Vbulletin forum, some crazy Wahabi could come around and then say that participating in this forum is haram as Vbulletin is an American company and they are making money from our participation and Vbulletin then gives its tax money to the American government to kill Muslims.

This is obviously nonsensical.

However we have to differentiate between performing a religious duty and propping up the Saudi government, they're two different things.

Anyway I'm no fan of the Saudis and you know more about the actual reality of living there than I do (which I do know is not pleasant) but to be fair to them they are one of the biggest donors of charity/aid in the world.

Recently they have announced giving residency to 4 million Burmese Muslims.

Just google Saudi donors and you see what they do.


It's wrong to adopt two extreme positions on them e.g. they are demons and rats, or that they are angels. They have their good side and bad side.

However Hajj is a fard, religious duty.

I would be really surprised if they actually give residency to Burmese, considering they never give residency to their neighbors Yemenies, Somalies, Palestinaians and so many other suffering. any real source about this?

Also they do donate, however there is always an agenda behind it, to expand their political and religious influence, this what they have done Pakistan and south asia. Pakistanis are their puppets now basically.

As for Hajj, I will only go if I know my money is not going in their hands

[Bengal_Tiger]

Links: http://www.arabnews.com/news/718891

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20150316237040

Karachi my brother, you are making a serious mistake if you are refusing to perform one of the pillars of Islam just because of one particular government.

[Karachi]

Links: http://www.arabnews.com/news/718891

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index...20150316237040



Karachi my brother, you are making a serious mistake if you are refusing to perform one of the pillars of Islam just because of one particular government.

Oh, Iqama does not mean they are permanent residents, they can only now be allowed to officially work, I guess they were illegal before. Most expats who live and work there are given Iqamas, it's more like a "work visa"

Saudis will never allow anyone to become a citizen or permanent resident, even though they might live there for 100 years.

As for not going to Hajj, it is my choice, until the land is occupied by these people, I just dont want to go, I was there in 2009 the last time, and I swear the place is turning more in to Vegas now, the malls, the stores and hotels there are like Dubai, it doesn't even feel that religious to begin with. Most of the historical sites that we use to visit back in the 90's are all gone now. It is a very soulless place. I would rather visit Jerusalem, because at least that place still feels holy

[Karachi]

karachi, I agree with you and i may not be right for saying this but if i had the finances or opportunity, i would either feed the hungry or send someone else who has a greater desire for performing hajj than i do and my reason is this:

a couple of years ago, i went to mazar e sharief with my family. i will be honest with you.. they were all excited and feeling super religious, i admired the architecture of the building alot and that was about it for me.. however, once i was inside that building, i saw people of all ages, mostly without arms, legs or any sight.. and they were desperately praying or crying for whatever it was that they were praying for..
overall, i would be lying if i said, i did not have a very spiritual experience. i didn't get the same things out of that trip as other might have but i felt very calm and somewhat satisfied with my life after having been to that place..

maybe hajj is not about the process of circling around the kabbah but that place you reach inside your mind while you go through a certain distance with the idea of seeking closeness to God in your mind.

maybe muslims from countries like afghanistan or pakistan are only able to have this sort of an experience once they are in the premisses of a building that is symbolic to them in those terms. maybe they are only able to reach that level of consciousness or reconsider their actions in life by leaving behind the environment they have grown up and been raised in all their lives.

i don't believe it's accurate to say that performing hajj in today's time and age is an invalid ritual or that muslims around the world get nothing out of performing what (to the majority of them is a religious ritual but) saudies have turned in to a business.

it's noble and humble when you are able to seek closeness to God by means other than through one's pockets but human beings experience things differently and reach conclusions in life at their own pace. it's unfair for us to dismiss someone elses desire for performing hajj because we don't feel about this ritual as strongly as they do.

The spiritual experience of Makkah and Medina is getting less and less, ask anyone who use to go there some 20-30 years ago and now, they will tell you the place has lost it's charm and spiritually.

[کیش]

Who said Pakistani's can't legally live in Arabia without being forced into slave labor? My uncle has lived their for over 20 years, and is educated with a very prestigious position in Riyadh. It's obvious they do not want random people to become citizens. But if you are educated, you can legally move there.

Who are you to say Hajj and Umrah it is invalid or valid in modern times? When the Quraysh still controlled Mecca, the Prophet (PBUH) still tried to perform Hajj even when it was filled with idols.

[Badlun]

Muslims should also develop spiritual tourism in areas other than Saudi. Places like Multan, Mazar Sharif, Timbuktu, Cairo, Qum, Mashhad, Istanbul, Baghdad,Och Sharif, Lahore, Konia etc can be used as spiritual tourism centers.

[tor_khan]

^These places already attract spiritual tourists. Of course when that happens, businesses spring up that profit from visitors to these places.

[HalloIsBack]

monetization of religion is always for show off

doesnt matter which religion