Immitating the kuffar :

[ghumbasa]

I will willingly imitate good non muslims, rather then bad muslims nothing wrong with that

These mullahs are the ones you imitate

extremist mullahs look like sons of satans

Ok atleast we agree on this...but then whats with a secular and paindu like you littering the thread?? I dont follow salafis...so buzz off from here...

[Badlun]

[QUOTE=ghumbasa;753663]Sayyid Qutb of Egypt in his book,*Milestones, published by the International Islamic Federation of Student Organizations, Salimiah, Kuwait in 1978 (pp. 48, 49), has quoted the famous traditionalist, Imam Bukhari, on the institution of marriage in Arabia before Islam*narrated by ayesha ra...Read it...it ll show many things...related to women slavery and being used as sex objects plus burying alive.Prophet saww then condemned those acts and established rights of women.[/QUOT

I have read this book of Qutb along with other books of this Islamist and others of his party like Maudodi. All these have an agenda of Islamism so their reference is not objective. I need objective proofs that Arabs used to bury their daughters.
You being deobandi, how can quote a kaafir as according to fatwa of Deoband Jamate islami leaders are kaafir.

[ghumbasa]

[QUOTE=Badlun;753674]

Sayyid Qutb of Egypt in his book,*Milestones, published by the International Islamic Federation of Student Organizations, Salimiah, Kuwait in 1978 (pp. 48, 49), has quoted the famous traditionalist, Imam Bukhari, on the institution of marriage in Arabia before Islam*narrated by ayesha ra...Read it...it ll show many things...related to women slavery and being used as sex objects plus burying alive.Prophet saww then condemned those acts and established rights of women.[/QUOT

I have read this book of Qutb along with other books of this Islamist and others of his party like Maudodi. All these have an agenda of Islamism so their reference is not objective. I need objective proofs that Arabs used to bury their daughters.
You being deobandi, how can quote a kaafir as according to fatwa of Deoband Jamate islami leaders are kaafir.

Are you passing takfir on whole lot deobandis ?? Bukhari and muslim ahadeeths are not different to either deobandis or salafis...if you can bring any new hadeeth with your new sect or group...then it ll be called as fabricated...You ll find the source same with everyone...differences we see are in ijtehad matters or fatwas not haddeths.

From ayesha ra the narrations are given how pre islamic arabia was involved in such jahaliyya.if you ve read it..then why asking? You want bbc to type about it?

[ghumbasa]

-Islamic Arabia

The original Arab, the Bedouin
by Philip K Hitti (from "The Arabs: A Short History")

Ancient accounts of Arabia*
(from the Internet Ancient History Sourcebook)

Herodotus, c. 430 BCE
Strabo, c. 22 CE
Dio Cassius, c. 220 CE
Ammianus Marcellinus, c. 380 CE
Procopius of Caesarea, c. 550 CE

Pre-Islamic Arabic culture
The desert origins of the Arabs, by Richard Hooker [World Cultures website]

Byzantium and the Arabs in the Fifth Century
by Irfan Shahid (Dumbarton Oaks Research Library, Washington DC)

Note: Read Gibbon then..his accounts are good.
You can read Richard Hook or Hines too...but they could be biased since they are new age historians.Go for Gibbon.

[ghumbasa]

Best non islamic texts is to go for old persian and greeks historians...or of romans.Their account of histories is always reliable...

[Badlun]

Daughters are a great blessing because Allah(SWT) has promised a place in paradise (Jannah) on bringing them up. The one who has 3 daughters or sisters, or 2 daughters or sisters and he brings them up properly and fears Allah(SWT) regarding their rights, then Paradise is made mandatory for him. In some Ahadith, when the Prophet(SAW) mentioned the blessings of bringing up 3 daughters or sisters, somebody asked “What if someone has only 1 daughter?” The Prophet(SAW) mentioned the same prize for him as well,i-e a place in the paradise. Paradise would never be made mandatory for such people had daughters not been blessings of Allah(SWT).

Yes arabs used to bury daughters alive in times of jahaliyya...but not HUNAFA..Hunafa were monothiest arabs like prophet mphammad saww s family...but they didnt ve refined concept.
Well...what can i say if some pashtun women weep over daughter s birth...because in islam its said when Allah gets happy...He bestow rain and daughters.This is cultural or more specifically tribal or familial practice not in islam.Not every pashtun consider them burden...many educate boys and girls equally.

These are just bookish injunctions which have no value in practice. Go around the Muslim world and you will find daughter second class family member. A brother of 10 years will ask her sister of 20 years to give him a glass of water. For daughters and women, the two places are kitchen and bed. They have no say in other cultural, political or economic aspects of life.

[ghumbasa]

These are just bookish injunctions which have no value in practice. Go around the Muslim world and you will find daughter second class family member. A brother of 10 years will ask her sister of 20 years to give him a glass of water. For daughters and women, the two places are kitchen and bed. They have no say in other cultural, political or economic aspects of life.

Islam is perfect... muslims are not.Upto muslims as to which extent they follow book of Allah and sunnah.

[Badlun]

[QUOTE=ghumbasa;753684]Islam is perfect... muslims are not.Upto muslims as to which extent they follow book of Allah and sunnah.[/QU

If Islam is perfect then why Muslims do not follow it. A perfect model always have perfect followers as it is attractive anough to be followed with zest and zeal. What I see , the followers of Islam are only Taliban or tablighis who are causing this much trouble for the world.

The less you are Muslim, the more you are peaceful. Perfect Islam is that of Al Qaeda, deoband, tabligh, IS and Taliban and these are its followers.

[HalloIsBack]

qutb's book is a basement of all islamsits nowadays
he see the world in two colours black and white
just to compensate his own problems=>it's always the fault of other
i repeat it once again=>big jihad is solution of your problems

[ghumbasa]

Islam is perfect... muslims are not.Upto muslims as to which extent they follow book of Allah and sunnah.

If Islam is perfect then why Muslims do not follow it. A perfect model always have perfect followers as it is attractive anough to be followed with zest and zeal. What I see , the followers of Islam are only Taliban or tablighis who are causing this much trouble for the world.

The less you are Muslim, the more you are peaceful. Perfect Islam is that of Al Qaeda, deoband, tabligh, IS and Taliban and these are its followers.

You look islam through your own narrow eye sight.And its not difficult to analyze that problem lies in you not in thousands of followers of islam.I take your generalisation as non sense.

[ghumbasa]

qutb's book is a basement of all islamsits nowadays
he see the world in two colours black and white
just to compensate his own problems=>it's always the fault of other
i repeat it once again=>big jihad is solution of your problems

http://www.radioislam.org/talmud/WhatTheTalmudTeaches.pdf

[ghumbasa]

qutb's book is a basement of all islamsits nowadays
he see the world in two colours black and white
just to compensate his own problems=>it's always the fault of other
i repeat it once again=>big jihad is solution of your problems

JEWISH FUNDAMENTALISM IN ISRAEL:


The following, quoted mainly from Israel Shahak and Norton Mezvinsky's book,*"Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel", correctly reflects what most "Jews" actually believe about themselves as opposed to non-"Jews."



"The difference between a Jewish soul and the souls of non-Jews - all of them in all different levels - is greater and deeper than the difference between a human soul and the souls of cattle."*- Rabbi Kook, the Elder

Note: Rabbi Kook's entire teaching was based upon the Lurianic Kabbalah, the school of Jewish mysticism that dominated Judaism from the late sixteenth to the early nineteenth century. One of the basic tenets of the Lurianic Kabbalah is the absolute superiority of the Jewish soul and body over the non-Jewish soul and body. According to the Lurianic Kabbalah,*the world was created solely for the sake of Jews, and the existence of non-Jews was subsidiary.

...

[Regarding Kabbalah,] Yesaiah Tishbi, an authority on the Kabbalah who wrote in Hebrew, said, "It is plain that those prospects and the scheme [of salvation] are intended only for Jews." Tishbi cited Rabbi Hayim Vital, the chief interpreter of Rabbi Luria, who wrote in his book, "Gales of Holiness": "The Emanating Power, blessed be his name, wanted there to besome people on this low earth that would embody the four divine emanations. These people are the Jews,*chosen to join together the four divine worlds here below."

[Note: Tishbi is describing the often elusive (for most non-"Jews") concept of Adam Kadmon.]

Tishbi further cited Vital's writings in emphasizing the Lurianic doctrine that non-Jews have satanic souls:*"Souls of non-Jews come entirely from the female part of the satanic sphere. For this reason souls of non-Jews are called evil, not good, and are created without [divine] knowledge."*- Yesaiah Tishbi, "The Theory of Evil and the (Satanic) Sphere in Lurianic Cabbala" (1942, reprinted in 1982)

A modern and influential expression of the attitudes derived above is evident in the teachings and writings of the late "Lubavitcher Rebbe,"*Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson,*who headed the Chabad-Lubavitch movement and wielded great influence among many religious Jews in Israel as well as in the United States. Schneerson and his Lubavitch followers are Haredim; nevertheless, they involved themselves in Israel's political life and shared many concepts with Gush Emunim and the National Religious Party. The ideas of Rabbi Schneerson that appear below are taken from a book of his recorded messages to followers in Israel, titled "Gatherings of Conversations published in the Holy Land in 1965." During the subsequent three decades of his life until his death [1994], Rabbi Schneerson remained consistent;*he did not change any of the opinions.*What Rabbi Schneerson taught either was or immediately became official, Lubovitch, Hassidic belief. Regarding the non-Jew the Lubavitcher Rebbe's views were clear even if a bit disorderly:

"In such a manner the Halacha, stipulated by the Talmud, showed that*a non-Jew should be punished by death if he kills an embryo, even if the embryo is non-Jewish, while the Jew should not be, even if the embryo is Jewish.*As we [the Talmudic sages] learn from Exodus 22:21, beginning with the words 'and if any mischief will follow.'"

This quoted verse is a part of a passage beginning in verse 21, describing what should be done "if men strive and hurt a woman with child," thus damaging the embryo. Verse 22, whose beginning is quoted by the Lubavitcher Rebbe, says in full: "And if any mischief will follow, then you shall give soul for soul." (Some English translations use the wording "life for life" instead of "soul for soul.")*The above stated difference in the punishment of a Jew and a non-Jew for the same crime is common in the Talmud and Halacha.*The Lubavitcher Rebbe continued:

"The difference between a Jewish and a non-Jewish person stems from the common expression: 'Let us differentiate.' Thus, we do not have a case of profound change in which a person is merely on a superior level. Rather, we have a case of 'let us differentiate' between*totally different species. This is what needs to be said about the body:*the body of a Jewish person is of a totally different quality from the body of [members] of all nations of the world."

...

The Old Rabbi [a pseudonym for one of the holy Lubavitch rabbis] explained that the passage in Chapter 49 of Hatanya [the basic book of Chabad]: "And you have chosen us" [the Jews] means specifically that the Jewish body was chosen [by God], because a choice is thus made between outwardly similar things. The Jewish body*"looks as if it were in substance similar to bodies of non-Jews,' but the meaning ... is that the bodies only seem to be similar in material substance, outward look and superficial quality. The difference of the inner quality, however, is so great that the bodies should be considered as completely different species.*This is the reason why the Talmud states that there is an halachic difference in attitude about the bodies of non-Jews [as opposed to the bodies of Jews] ...'their bodies are in vain.'*. . . An even greater difference exists in regard to the soul.*Two contrary types of soul exist, a non-Jewish soul comes from three satanic spheres, while the Jewish soul stems from holiness."

...

"As has been explained, an embryo is called a human being, because it has both body and soul. Thus, the difference between a Jewish and a non-Jewish embryo can be understood.There is also a difference in bodies. The body of a Jewish embryo is on a higher level than is the body of a non-Jew.*This is expressed in the phrase 'let us differentiate' about the body of a non-Jew, which is a totally different kind. The same difference exists in regard to the soul: the soul of a Jewish embryo is different than the soul of a non-Jewish embryo. We therefore ask: Why should a non-Jew be punished if he kills even a non-Jewish embryo while a Jew should not be punished even if he kills a Jewish embryo? The answer can be understood by [considering] the general difference between Jews and non-Jews:*A Jew was not created as a means for some [other] purpose; he himself is the purpose, since the substance of all [divine] emanations was created only to serve the Jews."*'In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth' [Genesis 1:1] means that [the heavens and the earth] were created for the sake of the Jews, who are called the 'beginning.' This means everything, all developments, all discoveries, the creation, including the 'heavens and the earth - are vanity compared to the Jews.*The important things are the Jews, because they do not exist for any [other] aim; they themselves are [the divine] aim."

After some additional cabbalistic explanation the Lubovitcher Rebbe concluded: "Following from what has already been said, it can be understood why a non-Jew should be punished by death if he kills an embryo and why a Jew should not be punished by death. The difference between the embryo and a [baby that was] born is that the embryo is not a self-contained reality but rather is subsidiary; either it is subsidiary to its mother or to the reality created after birth when the [divine] purpose of its creation is then fulfilled. In its present state the purpose is still absent. A non-Jew's entire reality is only vanity. It is written, 'And the strangers shall stand and feed your flocks' [Isaiah 61:5].*The entire creation [of a non-Jew] exists only for the sake of the Jews.*Because of this a non-Jew should be punished with death if he kills an embryo, while*a Jew, whose existence is most important,*should not be punished with death because of something subsidiary.*We should not destroy an important thing for the sake of something subsidiary.*It is true that there is a prohibition against [hurting] an embryo, because it is something that will be born in the future and in a hidden form already exists. The death penalty should be implicated only when visible matters are affected; as previously noted, the embryo is merely of subsidiary importance."

...

Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh, who wrote a chapter of a book in praise of [Baruch] Goldstein and [his murder of Palestinians praying in a mosque], is another member of the [Chabad-Lubavitch] group. Ginsburgh is the former head of the Yoseph Tomb Yeshiva, located on the outskirts of Nablus. Rabbi Ginsburgh, who originally came to Israel from the United States and has good connection to the Lubavitcher community in the United States, has often expressed his views in English in American Jewish publications. The following appeared in an April 26, 1996 Jewish Week (New York) article that contained an interview with Rabbi Ginsburgh:

"Regarded as one of the Lubavitcher sect's leading authorities on Jewish mysticism, the St. Louis born rabbi, who also has a graduate degree in mathematics, speaks freely of*Jews' genetic-based, spiritual superiority over non-Jews.*It is a superiority that he asserts invests Jewish life with greater value in the eyes of the Torah. 'If you saw two people drowning, a Jew and a non-Jew, the Torah says you save the Jewish life first,' Rabbi Ginsburgh told the Jewish Week.*'If every simple cell in a Jewish body entails divinity, is a part of God, then every strand of DNA is part of God. Therefore, something is special about Jewish DNA.'Later, Rabbi Ginsburgh asked rhetorically: 'If a Jew needs a liver, can you take the liver of an innocent non-Jew passing by to save him? The Torah would probably permit that. Jewish life has an infinite value,' he explained.*'There is something infinitely more holy and unique about Jewish life than non-Jewish life.'"

...

The difference in the attitudes about non-Jews in the Halacha and the Kabbalah is well illustrated by the difference expressed specifically in regard to non-Jews who have converted to Judaism. The Halacha, although discriminating against them in some ways, treats converts as new Jews. The Kabbalah is unable to adopt this approach because of itsemphasis upon the cosmic difference between Jews and non-Jews.*The Kabbalah explains that converts are really Jewish souls consigned firstly to non-Jewish bodies as punishments and later redeemed by conversion to Judaism either because the punishment ended or because a holy man interceded. This explanation is part of kabbalistic belief in metempsychosis [i.e., reincarnation], which is absent in the Halacha. According to the Kabbalah,*a satanic soul cannot be transformed into a divine soul by mere persuasion.*

...

"The [Yom Kippur] war broke out against the background of the revival of the kingdom of Israel, which in its metaphysical (not only symbolic) status is evidence of the decline of the spirit of defilement in the Western world ...*The Gentiles are fighting for their mere survival as Gentiles, as the ritually unclean. Iniquity is fighting its battle for survival.*It knows that in the wars of God there will not be a place for Satan, for the spirit of defilement, or for the remains of Western culture, the proponents of which are, as it were, secular Jews."

...

The modern secular world, according to this approach, "is struggling for survival, and thus our war is directed against the impurity of Western culture and against rationality as such." It follows that the alien culture has to be eradicated because "all foreignness draws us closer to the alien, and the alien causes alienation, as is the position of those who still adhere to Western culture and who attempt to fuse Judaism with rationalist empiricist and democratic culture." According to Amital's approach, the Yom Kippur War has to be comprehended in its messianic dimension: a struggle against civilization in its entirety." - Tal, quoting Rabbi Yehuda Amital, "On the significance of the Yom Kippur War [1973]."

...

Finally, the extreme chauvinism of the messianists is directed towards all non-Jews. The 1973 Yom Kippur War, for instance, was in Amital's view not directed against Egyptians, Syrians and/or all Arabs but*against all non-Jews. The war was thus directed against the great majority of citizens of the United States, even though the United States aided Israel in that war.*This hatred of non-Jews is not new but, as already discussed, is derived from a continuous Jewish kabbalistic tradition. Those Jewish scholars who have attempted to hide this fact from non-Jews and even from many Jews have not only done a disservice to scholarship; they have aided the growth of this Jewish analogue to German Nazism.*

The ideology of the Rabbis Kook is both eschatological and messianic. It resembles in this respect prior Jewish religious doctrines as well as similar trends in Christianity and Islam. This ideology assumes the imminent coming of the Messiah and asserts that*the Jews, aided by God, will thereafter triumph over the non-Jews and rule over them forever. (This, it is alleged, will be good for the non-Jews.)